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Post by midwestvolleyball on Apr 16, 2014 12:15:19 GMT -5
i totally agree with ucsd fan. mcilvane is buy far the most athletic setter and best all round setter in the MIVA. he is leading in all categories in MIVA. K/S, Aces/S, D/S, points/ set. only categories he doesnt lead is assists and digs. as we all know assists/ set does not determine whether you are the best setter. as for the loyola match, did you ever consider the pass or who he was setting? 1 set does not determine your ability as a setter! does micah ever have a bad set? ya i think so. I'm not trying to get you all hot and bothered about your boy Mcilvane. I agree that he is very athletic and leads in many statistical categories but when it comes down to it, I'd rather have a setter who runs a great offense and leads his team to a high hitting percentage than one that gets a few extra points a game through serving or blocking. You can earn a lot more points for your team by being a great setter and not just a great all around player. As for that set, I was showing an example of him not playing well when it counts the most. Ball State has lost several matches after going up 2-0 on teams and he hasn't played well at the end of those matches. That set he made was to Larry Wrather who I know doesn't play much but if I remember correctly, he was in system.
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Post by phildunphy on Apr 16, 2014 12:56:29 GMT -5
Looking at the AVCA AA awards over the last 6 seasons, the #1 ranked team in the final poll before the F4 has garnered at least 3 AA's every season.
'13- BYU (2 1st team, 1 2nd team) '12- USC (1,3) '11- USC (2,1) '10- Stanford (3,1) '09- UCI (1,3) '08- PSU (2,3)
So assuming Loyola wins the MIVA...and doesn't try and tank on purpose...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Then history shows Loyola "should" get a minimum of 3 AA's. My AA's in order would be...Jaescke 1st team, Smalzer & Caldwell 2nd team.
Also it's interesting to compare the Loyola schedule thus far vs. PSU's in '08, the only other time a non MPSF team was the clear #1 all year.
PSU played 12 teams that ranked in the final AVCA top 15 poll. (Before they played OSU & Pepp @ F4) Loyola has played 10 teams currently ranked in the AVCA top 15 poll with likely 2 left in MIVA.
PSU played 7 teams ranked in the top 10. Loyola has played 5 of the top 11. (Stretching argument a hair, but if #11 Lewis makes MIVA Finals and wins or loses...could surge ahead of UH @ #10...and put Loyola @ 6 matches vs. top 10)
PSU played 1 top 5 team. Loyola played 1 top 5 team.
Now it's really hard to say PSU '08 wasn't a waaaay better team than this Loyola squad because of where Holt and Anderson are as Olympians today. I am not really even comparing them as teams as much as how similar their seasons mirror each other thus far. Even the MPSF was as messy that year as it is now...
BYU 25-5 LBSU 23-7 CSUN 23-7 Pepp 17-11 Stan 17-11 UCLA 17-14 UCI 16-15
Every team in conference with 7+ losses except BYU and an 11 loss Pepperdine team was in the Finals.
Loyola has some pretty tough sledding ahead of them to try and match that accomplishment of the '08 team, but at least ON PAPER, resume-wise...their season deserves a minimum of 3 AA's.
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Post by ucsdfan on Apr 17, 2014 11:34:34 GMT -5
Looking at the AVCA AA awards over the last 6 seasons, the #1 ranked team in the final poll before the F4 has garnered at least 3 AA's every season. '13- BYU (2 1st team, 1 2nd team) '12- USC (1,3) '11- USC (2,1) '10- Stanford (3,1) '09- UCI (1,3) '08- PSU (2,3) So assuming Loyola wins the MIVA...and doesn't try and tank on purpose...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Then history shows Loyola "should" get a minimum of 3 AA's. My AA's in order would be...Jaescke 1st team, Smalzer & Caldwell 2nd team. Completely agree with the three players concept, but Caldwell sat the bench for much of this season and didn't come one strong until the end. Insert Olson for Caldwell, and I have no argument. I don't really understand this Mcilvane bandwagon that people are jumping on. He's a great server and a solid blocker and runs his middles well but I don't think he's even one of the top three setters in the MIVA. I've seen him play on multiple occasions this year and I would definitely take at least Boldog or Hutz over him if I was creating a team. When BSU played at Loyola earlier this year, they went up 2-0 and then lost the next three straight (Loyola played this entire match without Jaeschke). On match point, Mcilvane set the ball over his outside to lose the match...not something a potential All-American should do. He is a great all-around player but not a great setter in my opinion. It's funny how much controversy the McIlvane suggestion has created. Granted, I've only seen him play once and that was two years ago in a decisive loss to CSUN. But he was the one BSU player who stood out to me as intent on winning right up until the last point. I walked away impressed with his all around game, as he dug really well, blocked extremelty well, had the most deceptive dump I've seen in a few years, was the best server on their team, and set an efficient match. One match does not define a career by any means, but he has put up some terrific numbers throughout his career. It was proposed that we should compare him to some other AA setters for a schoolyard team. Kind of crazy really, but in a schoolyard match, he'd be even more valuable given his all around game. But the real comparison is whether in a year where setters make up a high percentage of the top fourty players in the nation, is he one of the best six (or five, or four) in terms of what his all around game does for his team? I would take him over Boldog, Olbright, and Hutz. I would have no preference for anyone vs. Shaw and Seif, as I'm convinced by their similar all around games, he could trade places with both of them and do a great job. Neither Shaw nor Seif have great hands, but like McIlvane they have a great all around game and play very smart volleyball. They are gamers. I would take both West and Christensen over McIlvane. We can argue this back and forth and never reach a resolve. The one thing that will likely be true in the end is that McIlvane will get snubbed in the AA voting. And for what it's worth, I would choose Omar Rivera over Hutz if I needed a setter.
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Post by ucsdfan on Apr 17, 2014 12:41:13 GMT -5
If you put angel dache in an mpsf where the teams have other people that can put the ball away, he will have better numbers against the big teams. He doesn't have that at mt olive so therefore the big teams just worry about blocking him. If you can see my point I can see your point that as a third option in the offense, there might be some pressure taken off of him. But the flip side of that coin is that he would have to hit against far quicker defenses, blockers that close out faster, and his kill percentage would drop drastically. Again, in five matches against four MIVA teams and PSU he hit only 0.161. His strong numbers against CC teams will not translate to games against better talent. It's just the way it works. Getting no aces and half a block from a pin hitter over five games would not endear him to any MPSF coach either. The reality is that at 6'2", he couldn't start at opposite in the MPSF. He'd have to play OH, and I don't see too many lineups he'd be able to crack. He'd be buried in the depth chart at UCI behind Hughes and Dejno, at Beach behind Crabb and Ammerman, at BYU behind Rivera and Sander, at Stanford behind Cook and Irvin, and UCLA behind Quiroga and Page, at Pepperdine behind Gerrans and Taylor, at Hawai'i behind Sedore, Zarkovich, and Olson, and at UCSB behind Hanley, Kingi, Donahue, and Neilson. So he wouldn't see the court much at eight of the thirteen school. He could compete for a starter's job at UCSD, CSUN, CBU, Pacific, and USC. If you look at the numbers the OH2s put up for those teams, it's not AA material, so Dache would not be getting the numbers he's getting now. If you don't buy the difference in talent level argument, consider that Mike McMahon lost his starting job during his sophomore season at Pepperdine (a middle of the pack MPSF team at that time) to a player who was not All-MPS. McMahon went on to be the defensive player of the year this past season in the CC. That is purely due to the reduced speed of the ball. I've seen the players who go on to the MPSF and to the CC in their club years, and I'm telling you that there is a big difference in the talent level. Nothing against the CC, as all volleyball is excellent, but whenever someone puts forth the notion that the top players in the CC are amongst the top twenty volleyball players in all of college volleyball, the notion has to be put in check. I have no doubt that Angel Dache could have been a good player in another conference, possibly even starting his last couple of seasons at the right shcool. But he would not land an all conference nod in the MIVA or MPSF, let alone anythign AA related, at this point in time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 13:32:57 GMT -5
Looking at the AVCA AA awards over the last 6 seasons, the #1 ranked team in the final poll before the F4 has garnered at least 3 AA's every season. '13- BYU (2 1st team, 1 2nd team) '12- USC (1,3) '11- USC (2,1) '10- Stanford (3,1) '09- UCI (1,3) '08- PSU (2,3) So assuming Loyola wins the MIVA...and doesn't try and tank on purpose...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Then history shows Loyola "should" get a minimum of 3 AA's. My AA's in order would be...Jaescke 1st team, Smalzer & Caldwell 2nd team. Completely agree with the three players concept, but Caldwell sat the bench for much of this season and didn't come one strong until the end. Insert Olson for Caldwell, and I have no argument. I don't really understand this Mcilvane bandwagon that people are jumping on. He's a great server and a solid blocker and runs his middles well but I don't think he's even one of the top three setters in the MIVA. I've seen him play on multiple occasions this year and I would definitely take at least Boldog or Hutz over him if I was creating a team. When BSU played at Loyola earlier this year, they went up 2-0 and then lost the next three straight (Loyola played this entire match without Jaeschke). On match point, Mcilvane set the ball over his outside to lose the match...not something a potential All-American should do. He is a great all-around player but not a great setter in my opinion. It's funny how much controversy the McIlvane suggestion has created. Granted, I've only seen him play once and that was two years ago in a decisive loss to CSUN. But he was the one BSU player who stood out to me as intent on winning right up until the last point. I walked away impressed with his all around game, as he dug really well, blocked extremelty well, had the most deceptive dump I've seen in a few years, was the best server on their team, and set an efficient match. One match does not define a career by any means, but he has put up some terrific numbers throughout his career. It was proposed that we should compare him to some other AA setters for a schoolyard team. Kind of crazy really, but in a schoolyard match, he'd be even more valuable given his all around game. But the real comparison is whether in a year where setters make up a high percentage of the top fourty players in the nation, is he one of the best six (or five, or four) in terms of what his all around game does for his team? I would take him over Boldog, Olbright, and Hutz. I would have no preference for anyone vs. Shaw and Seif, as I'm convinced by their similar all around games, he could trade places with both of them and do a great job. Neither Shaw nor Seif have great hands, but like McIlvane they have a great all around game and play very smart volleyball. They are gamers. I would take both West and Christensen over McIlvane. We can argue this back and forth and never reach a resolve. The one thing that will likely be true in the end is that McIlvane will get snubbed in the AA voting. And for what it's worth, I would choose Omar Rivera over Hutz if I needed a setter. I'm not sure how you define "much of the season." Caldwell did have a skaky stretch for a month and a half after the first match against Irvine. Thus, Berzins got in a few matches and sets here and there. I think Caldwell re-established himself for good in late February. Looking at the stats, Caldwell played in 67 of 87 sets. With a few mid-set benchings and I would still say that he played for most of the season. I wouldn't say that he's an AA but he was voted 1st team MIVA so that's one indication of how important he has been this year.
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Post by phildunphy on Apr 17, 2014 13:36:26 GMT -5
Looking at the AVCA AA awards over the last 6 seasons, the #1 ranked team in the final poll before the F4 has garnered at least 3 AA's every season. '13- BYU (2 1st team, 1 2nd team) '12- USC (1,3) '11- USC (2,1) '10- Stanford (3,1) '09- UCI (1,3) '08- PSU (2,3) So assuming Loyola wins the MIVA...and doesn't try and tank on purpose...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Then history shows Loyola "should" get a minimum of 3 AA's. My AA's in order would be...Jaescke 1st team, Smalzer & Caldwell 2nd team. Completely agree with the three players concept, but Caldwell sat the bench for much of this season and didn't come one strong until the end. Insert Olson for Caldwell, and I have no argument. Not to be argumentative for arguments sake, but Caldwell hasn't really ridden the bench at all this year. He has been removed as a starter 3 times and had a DNS vs. IPFW, otherwise he's been the starter since week 1 in all of their bigger matches. UCI- started (13k) BYU- started (6k) USC- started, but got benched Harvard- started (7k .333) OSU- started (13k .500) Lewis- stared, but got benched BSU- started, but got benched IPFW-DNS (Feb 22) Since the Quincy match on Feb 27, he started every match (think he got pulled early vs. Quincy on Sr. night, or didn't start..not sure) and been huge for Loyola in each... Quincy- 8k .312 Lindenwood- 12k .500 Mason- 5k Lewis- 21k .529 PSU- 18k .342 St. Francis- 14k .875 BSU- 24k .326 IPFW- 10k .316 Lindenwood- 10k Quincy- 3k OSU- 18k .389 So other than an off night against Mason & a Sr. night bench clearing vs. Quincy...Caldwell has been bringing it for close to 2 months now. He was also especially huge against the 5 biggest opponents on the schedule going for 10, 18, 18, 21, & 24 when matches were biggest/toughest. Even his cold start included 3 matches he played well vs. UCI, Harvard, & OSU. Throw in the fact that he's already been named 1st team all MIVA ahead of Olson and I like his chances for AA. Edit- Or what vuster4 said...lol!
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Post by vball2014 on Apr 17, 2014 13:45:14 GMT -5
If you put angel dache in an mpsf where the teams have other people that can put the ball away, he will have better numbers against the big teams. He doesn't have that at mt olive so therefore the big teams just worry about blocking him. If you can see my point I can see your point that as a third option in the offense, there might be some pressure taken off of him. But the flip side of that coin is that he would have to hit against far quicker defenses, blockers that close out faster, and his kill percentage would drop drastically. Again, in five matches against four MIVA teams and PSU he hit only 0.161. His strong numbers against CC teams will not translate to games against better talent. It's just the way it works. Getting no aces and half a block from a pin hitter over five games would not endear him to any MPSF coach either. The reality is that at 6'2", he couldn't start at opposite in the MPSF. He'd have to play OH, and I don't see too many lineups he'd be able to crack. He'd be buried in the depth chart at UCI behind Hughes and Dejno, at Beach behind Crabb and Ammerman, at BYU behind Rivera and Sander, at Stanford behind Cook and Irvin, and UCLA behind Quiroga and Page, at Pepperdine behind Gerrans and Taylor, at Hawai'i behind Sedore, Zarkovich, and Olson, and at UCSB behind Hanley, Kingi, Donahue, and Neilson. So he wouldn't see the court much at eight of the thirteen school. He could compete for a starter's job at UCSD, CSUN, CBU, Pacific, and USC. If you look at the numbers the OH2s put up for those teams, it's not AA material, so Dache would not be getting the numbers he's getting now. If you don't buy the difference in talent level argument, consider that Mike McMahon lost his starting job during his sophomore season at Pepperdine (a middle of the pack MPSF team at that time) to a player who was not All-MPS. McMahon went on to be the defensive player of the year this past season in the CC. That is purely due to the reduced speed of the ball. I've seen the players who go on to the MPSF and to the CC in their club years, and I'm telling you that there is a big difference in the talent level. Nothing against the CC, as all volleyball is excellent, but whenever someone puts forth the notion that the top players in the CC are amongst the top twenty volleyball players in all of college volleyball, the notion has to be put in check. I have no doubt that Angel Dache could have been a good player in another conference, possibly even starting his last couple of seasons at the right shcool. But he would not land an all conference nod in the MIVA or MPSF, let alone anythign AA related, at this point in time. Well take into consideration how some CC teams have beat some MIVA teams and EIVA teams. Recently with Erskine beating Cal Bap and in 2011 Lees-McRae upset Ball State, the same Ball State that sweep an MPSF Hawaii team in the outrigger tournament. That leads me to believe that some players in CC could play for some of those teams, maybe not start right away but have a possibility just like McMahon did for Pepperdine even thou he started. Your absolutely right, with the speed of the ball being faster in the MPSF. He was recruited by some of the MPSF and MIVA teams coming out of high school but he did not have the scores to get in. I'm not saying he would have been an AA, I'm just saying that he is a pretty legit outside hitter than can jump pretty good and hit. As for McMahon did he leave Pepperdine for someone taking his job? He had over 30 reception errors this year, thou he did lead the conference in digs and had some out of conference games that helped him with his dig average.
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Post by ucsdfan on Apr 24, 2014 18:28:25 GMT -5
First Team for sureSander (BYU) Crabb (CSULB) Quiroga (UCLA) Cook (Stanford) Powell (Lewis) Christensen (USC) First Team/Second Team CuspIrvin (Stanford) Russell (PSU) Jaeshke (Loyola) Smalzer (Loyola) Taylor (Pepperdine) West (Pepperdine) Second Team for sureBoldog (Lewis) Seif (UCSB) Yoder (USC) Maybe Second TeamLaCavera (UCI) Brinkley (UCI) Olbright (CSULB) Shaw (Stanford) Sedore (Hawai'i) Page (UCLA) Olson (Loyola) Petty (Lewis) Anderson (Pepperdine) Henchey (OSU) Hughes (UCI) Schwagler (Princeton) Will be Completely Overlooked Despite Deserving the HonorColin Hacksworth (Lindenwood) Ben Ponnet (GCU) Graham McIlvane (Ball State) should be first team AA, but will get overlooked completely Had a Very Nice Season, but not AA MaterialTim Schmidt (Lindenwood) Greg Faulkner (CSUN) Thomas Hodges (Pacific) Parker Kalmbach (Pepperdine) Eric Mochalski (Stanford) Devin Young (BYU) Eddie Rivera (IPFW) Jack Gamache (Quincy) Cody Kessel (Princeton) DJ White (Harvard) Actual list: AVCA FIRST-TEAM ALL-AMERICANSetter: Micah Christenson, USC Outside attacker: Brian Cook, Stanford Outside attacker: Taylor Crabb, Long Beach State Outside attacker: Thomas Jaeschke, Loyola Outside attacker: Geoff Powell, Lewis Outside attacker: Gonzalo Quiroga, UCLA Outside attacker: Aaron Russell, Penn State Outside attacker: Taylor Sander, BYU Middle attacker: Taylor Averill, Hawai’i Libero: Michael Brinkley, UC Irvine AVCA SECOND-TEAM ALL-AMERICANSetter: BJ Boldog, Lewis Setter: Jonah Seif, UC Santa Barbara Setter: James Shaw, Stanford Setter: Matt West, Pepperdine Outside attacker: Steven Irvin, Stanford Outside attacker: Josh Taylor, Pepperdine Middle attacker: Driss Guessous, Ohio State Middle attacker: Scott Kevorken, UC Irvine Middle attacker: Matt Leske, Ball State Libero: Henry Cassiday, USC AVCA ALL-AMERICAN HONORABLE MENTIONSOpposite: Nick Goodell, Penn State Opposite: Cody Kessel, Princeton Opposite: Spencer Rowe, UCLA Opposite: Andrew Sellan, IPFW Opposite: Joseph Smalzer, Loyola Outside attacker: Cody Caldwell, Loyola Outside attacker: Angel Dache, Mount Olive Outside attacker: Mike Michelau, Erskine Outside attacker: Robart Page, UCLA Outside attacker: Greg Petty, Lewis Outside attacker: DJ White, Harvard Outside attacker: Lucas Yoder, USC Middle attacker: Concrad Kaminski, Stanford Middle attacker: Nicholas Olson, Loyola Middle attacker: Matt Tarantino, Pepperdine Middle attacker: Caleb Zimmick, Harvard Have to admit being utterly surprised that Loyola and BYU were snubbed in terms of first and second team selections. Also surprised that so many middles were picked.
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Post by rhinovb14 on Apr 24, 2014 20:12:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm surprised at the picks. Admittedly don't follow religiously, but it catch it occasionally and look at box scores. Lewis with 2 in AA (excluding HM) but Loyola and BYU? Am I missing something? PSU 08 was a great team and non mpsf of course. I'm not an East/Midwest vs west argument fan, but this seems a little odd. I know these are individual honors, but I keep thinking "to the victor goes the spoils," if anything I'm rooting even more for Loyola now.
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Post by justcallmemom on Apr 24, 2014 21:07:22 GMT -5
Michael Brinkley of UC Irvine for sure! This weekend will bring out the talent in the MPSF. The teams are so closely matched that the All-Americans will set themselves apart from the rest. So happy Michael was recognized. He is amazing to watch! Such a great player with a great attitude!
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Post by chitownvb on Apr 25, 2014 20:59:12 GMT -5
How boldog, guessous and leske made 2nd team instead of smaltzer, who made HM seems like a joke - IMO.
Other guys on Loyola really stepped up this year, but the team has lost one game all year, and dominated the MIVA. This guy scored a ton of points and remains and anchor.
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Post by ucsdfan on Apr 25, 2014 21:07:57 GMT -5
How boldog, guessous and leske made 2nd team instead of smaltzer, who made HM seems like a joke - IMO. Have to agree with you here. I know Smaltzer didn't put up numbers like last season, but in important games he did what was needed, gettign aces, blocks, digs, and kills at key moments. His omission is the biggest surprise for me.
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Post by WahineFan44 on Apr 25, 2014 21:14:41 GMT -5
I think everyone's predictions show how many people don't realize how good Taylor averil is. Most people didn't Even have him as 2nd team or possible 2nd team. Yet he was the only MB to make first team.
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Post by middleman2010 on Apr 26, 2014 0:57:13 GMT -5
While I may not understand Smallzer not making second team AA. Why knock three guys from the MIVA? Is it wrong for Boldog to be named, he has been all American now three years.He deserved it . How about the middle from OSU - new comer of the year, had a great freshman year. Leske from Ball State? Led the nation in blocks and hit for .400. I can understand disappointment in having a favorite player on a favorite team get over looked, but to say its a joke means you think they are not worthy, and their effort is a joke. Really don't understand that. I congratulate every one that was named , their schools and family's.And wish that their was room for more. The HM list is a good addition. And make up of the selection committee another good step.
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