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Post by vbnerd on Aug 12, 2014 17:48:38 GMT -5
So when Price and Walbridge graduated, you wouldn't have voted Penn State #1? How about when Harmotto and Fawcette graduated? When Hodge and Glass graduated? Cause when those kids left of course it wasn't the same team, but yet they kept winning titles. I don't expect Penn State to win the Big 10 even, but at Penn State of all places, I have no issue with crowning them until they lose. And for all those who think Penn State shouldn't be number 1 because of the losses, how is anyone surprised the runner up who DOES return almost everybody got 8 first place votes? Personally, having watched Nwanebu go for 30 kills without an error, and putting Bricio on the other pin, I think USC is capable of beating every other team in the country. I don't know if they will be consistent enough to win a title but they have the ability to steamroll 325 or more programs on the right day. Allow me to respond to your points. First, Wallbridge wasn't a starter, Price was playing in a reduced role and they returned three all-americans. Secondly When Fawcett and Harmotto graduated they still had 3 all-americans returning. When Hodge and Glass graduated, they returned two first team all-americans and the MVP of the FF, they also lost 4 matches in the Big Ten including Indiana and Purdue back to back which clearly demonstrates they were no where near the best team TO START THE SEASON. This team returns one all-American. I would say the comparisons aren't very strong. As for the runner-up getting 1st place votes, I would say that it was a good team all year, that got very hot, got a great draw and went on a great run. Does this years team get to the final with a really tough draw, just playing well? Because teams with the best talent can. Wisconsin does not have one of the top 3-4 rosters in the country and the pre-season poll IMO should be about who you return on your roster. I am surprised they got 8 first team votes, so was Wisconsin. I'm not even saying I think they should be #1 but jasonr's logic, that this isn't the exact same team so they cannot be #1 is ludacris. I wasn't intending to make the case for Penn State as much as I was trying to poke a hole in his statement. I find votes for the two teams in the finals to be entirely defensible. I'm not sure who I would have voted for, maybe them, maybe not, but I see no problem in the logic used to arrive at either of those two.
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Post by vbnerd on Aug 12, 2014 17:58:24 GMT -5
So when Price and Walbridge graduated, you wouldn't have voted Penn State #1? How about when Harmotto and Fawcette graduated? When Hodge and Glass graduated? Cause when those kids left of course it wasn't the same team, but yet they kept winning titles. I don't expect Penn State to win the Big 10 even, but at Penn State of all places, I have no issue with crowning them until they lose. And for all those who think Penn State shouldn't be number 1 because of the losses, how is anyone surprised the runner up who DOES return almost everybody got 8 first place votes? Personally, having watched Nwanebu go for 30 kills without an error, and putting Bricio on the other pin, I think USC is capable of beating every other team in the country. I don't know if they will be consistent enough to win a title but they have the ability to steamroll 325 or more programs on the right day. Others will surely respond to the PSU of past years comment, but will tackle your USC comment. While I completely agree that USC is capable of beating every other team in the country, do you think there is a top team that isn't capable of doing that? Just curious. Looking at the rosters of the top 7 or so, I have a hard time saying that any of those teams aren't capable of beating any other team. I do think there are at least 2 schools who are incapable of beating certain other top 7 schools for the first few weeks, but I'm not going to swing at the hornets nest of either fanbase. That said I think there are several combinations in the top 7 where they could play all day and neither team would sweep a match or hold the other to under 15 for a set. I think USC has the potential to go off on a good day (I used the word steamroll in the last post). Between Florida, Kentucky or Creighton, somebody is going to not get to 20 in any set and/or less than 15 in a single set. And at the same time they are up and down enough that they could lose to Northern Iowa or something.
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Post by MTC on Aug 12, 2014 18:31:30 GMT -5
In the last, what? 25 years? Penn State has had one stretch where they were consistently beatable. And by that I mean just that, that other teams had legitimate shots at beating them. They didn't fall very far. Maybe they finished third once. Anyhow, it was a pretty short period of time. In my opinion, the reason for it was that they were not recruiting elite athletes. They still were getting really, good volleyball players, but maybe not top-of-the-line athletes. That changed. No one, other than Texas, recruits like they do. The point? It would not surprise me in the least if they were #1 again this year, especially considering they are not replacing their setter. They have the horses. They ALWAYS have the horses. I know it pretty much seems this way but Stanford and USC have gotten their share of horses also. Perhaps what we should say is that PSU has been the most fortunate in avoiding injuries, being located in the Northeast, and winning the close ones. Everything has an expiration date and this volleyball era will pass also. Recruiting is such a guessing game where you have to predict the future for young players who are barely in their teens. The top teams are all quite good at recruiting but normally only one person can win a race.
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Post by ay2013 on Aug 12, 2014 18:35:13 GMT -5
Why do you think you are a big PSU fan? You share zero information on the team and very seldom say anything positive about the team. In contrast you are the number one defender for Coach Cook at Nebraska. Please explain. Sure. Let me first say that the question/accusation is absurd given you know I am a huge fan, am close with the staff and have former players playing there. You are calling me out on a public forum about not being a fan, when you KNOW I love the program. That's just lame. As it relates to not sharing, PSU is very private about what they share regarding the program, it's players and what their plans are, which I respect. If I am asked to keep something in confidence, I keep it in confidence. I would also say this is mostly your frustration because I refuse to answer your questions about PSU when you PM me and ask questions about internal things. If you are being honest, you will acknowledge that I have answered several of your questions, and when the question is about something I know they want left in house, I have told you so. As for not posting positive things, I would say I post positive things pretty often, I just don't go overboard with it. I think if you ask the credible PSU fans they would tell you such. If you are referring to my objection to them being ranked #1,I would say that means their head coach isn't a fan either because he finds it equally inaccurate. I also go out of my way to try and balance out the wacko's who go way over the top of all things PSU. I know their staff is embarrassed by it, and it makes people out there not like PSU. PSU is very understated about their success, so it bothers me when people are obnoxious about it. In terms of being a defender of Cook? I am. I am because first of all he is my friend, and secondly because he gets roughed up on this site more than any other coach, and many times unfairly. I was critical of him regarding his actions with Jmac, some recruiting choices and things he has said in the press. When I know what is being said of him is inaccurate, or unfair, I will defend him. I defend lots of people on this site, including those I don't know well, or even get along with. When people blast other coaches or share a rumor I know to be false, I will defend it. I hope that answers your questions. Preach, keystonekid ....
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Post by mnsports255 on Aug 12, 2014 18:49:15 GMT -5
A message from Russ Rose:"Fellow coaches, I am not fooled by your poorly veiled attempt to prop up our ranking so that it will be more difficult to coach my team. Remember, I think like you, but only better. I have already prepared my team for a possible preseason #1 ranking and told them it is basically BS. That's why I'm the best coach in women's D-1, I anticipate trouble and I react accordingly. I know that swelled-heads and complacency are the mother of unexpected defeats. So go on and keep voting us #1, it makes no difference. At the end of the season when everything is on the line and my freshman are playing like seniors, WE WILL actually be the #1 team." This cannot be a recent photo of Rose. Looks kike ten years ago. Your eyes must be failing you. It was 6 years ago.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 12, 2014 18:53:58 GMT -5
I do think there are at least 2 schools who are incapable of beating certain other top 7 schools for the first few weeks, but I'm not going to swing at the hornets nest of either fanbase. Awwww.. where's the fun in that?
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Post by vup on Aug 12, 2014 20:48:24 GMT -5
A message from Russ Rose:"Fellow coaches, I am not fooled by your poorly veiled attempt to prop up our ranking so that it will be more difficult to coach my team. Remember, I think like you, but only better. I have already prepared my team for a possible preseason #1 ranking and told them it is basically BS. That's why I'm the best coach in women's D-1, I anticipate trouble and I react accordingly. I know that swelled-heads and complacency are the mother of unexpected defeats. So go on and keep voting us #1, it makes no difference. At the end of the season when everything is on the line and my freshman are playing like seniors, WE WILL actually be the #1 team." What's the source on that quote? A volleytalk exclusive, eh? Or is this from a presser? Not only is he the best coach in Women's D-1, but he is also, the self-proclaimed best coach in Women's D-1.
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Post by Cubicle No More ... on Aug 12, 2014 20:50:34 GMT -5
A message from Russ Rose:"Fellow coaches, I am not fooled by your poorly veiled attempt to prop up our ranking so that it will be more difficult to coach my team. Remember, I think like you, but only better. I have already prepared my team for a possible preseason #1 ranking and told them it is basically BS. That's why I'm the best coach in women's D-1, I anticipate trouble and I react accordingly. I know that swelled-heads and complacency are the mother of unexpected defeats. So go on and keep voting us #1, it makes no difference. At the end of the season when everything is on the line and my freshman are playing like seniors, WE WILL actually be the #1 team." This cannot be a recent photo of Rose. Looks kike ten years ago. it's not him ... no sweater
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 12, 2014 20:59:36 GMT -5
Personally, having watched Nwanebu go for 30 kills without an error, and putting Bricio on the other pin, I think USC is capable of beating every other team in the country. I don't know if they will be consistent enough to win a title but they have the ability to steamroll 325 or more programs on the right day. Which is why they lost to the Huskies three times last year, twice in Galen? "Capable" is pretty far from being the same thing as "likely".
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Post by hammer on Aug 12, 2014 22:47:52 GMT -5
This cannot be a recent photo of Rose. Looks kike ten years ago. it's not him ... no sweater Good observation. I went with a "good look" for him. I know it's all relative, but how often do you see him smiling?
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Post by Courtside5 on Aug 13, 2014 1:16:34 GMT -5
My Wahine are a bit low but that`s okay because they have a lot of freshman and inexperienced players coming in that need to fill some shoes. Curious to see what Dave can do with these girls and how far they can go this season. GO BOWS!!! they actually are ranked higher in the preseason poll than they were in the 2013 final season poll, which is actually a credit to the program, considering they lost their leading scorer, most of their backcourt, and their setter...and nobody on the roster to replace them are anywhere near as good as Hartong, Uiato, and Longo. Yeah I guess you're right. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll just be happy if they can challenge for the Big West title and hopefully an invite to the big dance.
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Post by jasonr on Aug 13, 2014 10:44:26 GMT -5
Allow me to respond to your points. First, Wallbridge wasn't a starter, Price was playing in a reduced role and they returned three all-americans. Secondly When Fawcett and Harmotto graduated they still had 3 all-americans returning. When Hodge and Glass graduated, they returned two first team all-americans and the MVP of the FF, they also lost 4 matches in the Big Ten including Indiana and Purdue back to back which clearly demonstrates they were no where near the best team TO START THE SEASON. This team returns one all-American. I would say the comparisons aren't very strong. As for the runner-up getting 1st place votes, I would say that it was a good team all year, that got very hot, got a great draw and went on a great run. Does this years team get to the final with a really tough draw, just playing well? Because teams with the best talent can. Wisconsin does not have one of the top 3-4 rosters in the country and the pre-season poll IMO should be about who you return on your roster. I am surprised they got 8 first team votes, so was Wisconsin. I'm not even saying I think they should be #1 but jasonr's logic, that this isn't the exact same team so they cannot be #1 is ludacris. I wasn't intending to make the case for Penn State as much as I was trying to poke a hole in his statement. I find votes for the two teams in the finals to be entirely defensible. I'm not sure who I would have voted for, maybe them, maybe not, but I see no problem in the logic used to arrive at either of those two. That's not poking a hole, that's strawmanning. I didn't say they couldn't be ranked #1 in the preseason, I said they shouldn't be ranked #1 just because they're the returning champion. If their current roster was still better than everyone else's, then they'd deserve the ranking, but as it stands they don't have the best roster when accounting for talent plus experience (i.e. they lost too much talent in relation to other good teams). That doesn't preclude them from winning another title, or earning the top spot during the season at some point, just that they shouldn't be the top ranked team going into the year. That said, I think preseason polls in all sports are ridiculous.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 13, 2014 10:50:08 GMT -5
I'm not even saying I think they should be #1 but jasonr's logic, that this isn't the exact same team so they cannot be #1 is ludacris. I wasn't intending to make the case for Penn State as much as I was trying to poke a hole in his statement. I find votes for the two teams in the finals to be entirely defensible. I'm not sure who I would have voted for, maybe them, maybe not, but I see no problem in the logic used to arrive at either of those two. That's not poking a hole, that's strawmanning. I didn't say they couldn't be ranked #1 in the preseason, I said they shouldn't be ranked #1 just because they're the returning champion. If their current roster was still better than everyone else's, then they'd deserve the ranking, but as it stands they don't have the best roster when accounting for talent plus experience (i.e. they lost too much talent in relation to other good teams). That doesn't preclude them from winning another title, or earning the top spot during the season at some point, just that they shouldn't be the top ranked team going into the year. That said, I think preseason polls in all sports are ridiculous. So who is your #1? All the top teams lost a lot, and PSU's the team bringing in the #1 recruiting class....
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Post by jasonr on Aug 13, 2014 11:09:09 GMT -5
That's not poking a hole, that's strawmanning. I didn't say they couldn't be ranked #1 in the preseason, I said they shouldn't be ranked #1 just because they're the returning champion. If their current roster was still better than everyone else's, then they'd deserve the ranking, but as it stands they don't have the best roster when accounting for talent plus experience (i.e. they lost too much talent in relation to other good teams). That doesn't preclude them from winning another title, or earning the top spot during the season at some point, just that they shouldn't be the top ranked team going into the year. That said, I think preseason polls in all sports are ridiculous. So who is your #1? All the top teams lost a lot, and PSU's the team bringing in the #1 recruiting class.... Stanford
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Post by jsn112 on Aug 13, 2014 11:57:35 GMT -5
So who is your #1? All the top teams lost a lot, and PSU's the team bringing in the #1 recruiting class.... Stanford Not because you're a Stanford fan, are ya?
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