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Post by volleyguy on Sept 3, 2014 14:02:33 GMT -5
Dorothy - I think Dunning, and Cook are very similar. That said I think Rose gets more out of his players. Dunning and Cook are not really alike at all. For what it's worth, I think both Dot and Pelc are right to some degree. I think based on any number of measures, Stanford is more talented than Nebraska, but talent doesn't always win out, which makes using the results of one match to gauge talent unreliable. In fact, based on last year's regional final, I would say that last year's Stanford team was more talented than Penn State's. The difference is that there is no better college coach than Russ Rose at getting the most out of the talent he has.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Sept 3, 2014 17:01:42 GMT -5
Dorothy - I think Dunning, and Cook are very similar. That said I think Rose gets more out of his players. Dunning and Cook are not really alike at all. For what it's worth, I think both Dot and Pelc are right to some degree. I think based on any number of measures, Stanford is more talented than Nebraska, but talent doesn't always win out, which makes using the results of one match to gauge talent unreliable. In fact, based on last year's regional final, I would say that last year's Stanford team was more talented than Penn State's. The difference is that there is no better college coach than Russ Rose at getting the most out of the talent he has. Which is why I said talent isn't the only determiner, thank you for actually reading. I also agreed with some of Pelcs points as I do often. Cook and Dunning are very different, although all great coaches share common qualities.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 17:13:30 GMT -5
Dunning and Cook are not really alike at all. For what it's worth, I think both Dot and Pelc are right to some degree. I think based on any number of measures, Stanford is more talented than Nebraska, but talent doesn't always win out, which makes using the results of one match to gauge talent unreliable. In fact, based on last year's regional final, I would say that last year's Stanford team was more talented than Penn State's. The difference is that there is no better college coach than Russ Rose at getting the most out of the talent he has. Which is why I said talent isn't the only determiner, thank you for actually reading. I also agreed with some of Pelcs points as I do often. Cook and Dunning are very different, although all great coaches share common qualities. <3 you
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Post by bkedane on Sept 3, 2014 18:35:30 GMT -5
I guess pelcj11 isn't willing to share his secret for how he learns about how much of a leader or competitor various players are. Fair enough, no one has to give away all of their secrets on a message board. You answered your own question in your last sentence of your original reply, didn't you? So you're saying you've had day to day contact with both players, or received the information from Dunning and Cook and/or the Stanford and Nebraska players? Ok. Thanks.
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Post by jgrout on Sept 3, 2014 20:19:05 GMT -5
Dorothy - I think Dunning, and Cook are very similar. That said I think Rose gets more out of his players. Dunning is one of the calmest, most centered people I have ever met... he is a living, breathing example of what the Italians call "Il Padrone" (often mistranslated "the Godfather"... it really means "the Patriarch"). He has an incredible command of situations and has taken the whole "adult in the room" thing to another level... seeing him and his assistants at a table doing Final Four planning, which I got to witness (out of hearing range) in the same public space/restaurant at the Fort Collins Hilton, was illustrative (they, the players and we fans were watching that incredible Washington/Nebraska match in Seattle... my ears may never have totally recovered from U-Dub's loss, because it led to the extraordinarily loud national semi-final between Nebraska and Penn State in Omaha). Cook certainly appears to get angry more often than Dunning. Dunning and Rose are total opposites... they've done speaking presentations to coaches together and the first thing Rose says in his presentation after Dunning has done his presentation is to ignore everything that Dunning has just said. The point is that if you're more like Dunning, do it Dunning's way and if you're more like Rose, do it Rose's way. No one style works for all head coaches.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 21:25:13 GMT -5
You answered your own question in your last sentence of your original reply, didn't you? So you're saying you've had day to day contact with both players, or received the information from Dunning and Cook and/or the Stanford and Nebraska players? Ok. Thanks. You're welcome.
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Post by usvballfan on Sept 3, 2014 21:37:41 GMT -5
I disagree with Nebraska having the same talent as Stanford. I think Stanford is superior.
Stanford's 2012 #1 recruiting class (total of 5) included Mountain View grad and All-American Brittany Howard (Jr. National Team), Oklahoma Gatorade Player of the Year Inky Ajanaku (obvious), two-time North Carolina Gatorade Player of the Year Madi Bugg (junior National team), National Gatorade Player of the Year Jordan Burgess (Junior National Team) and All-American Megan McGehee.
Nebraska's 2013 #1 recruiting class (total of 8) included the Rolfzen's -oh/rs (junior national team), Kelly Hunter (junior national team ), Ethridge, Lyles and Justine (DS/Libero), and two middles.
4 out of the 5 Standford recruits have played critical roles in the line-up as freshman, sophomores and now juniors. Not surprised they are clicking as a team (as well as being better volleyball players).
Nebraska has only played three - the Rolfzens and Justine (Libero).....other sparingly.
So not only is there a difference in levels of players, but also in level of court time (to this date).
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Post by plm on Sept 3, 2014 22:34:20 GMT -5
I disagree with Nebraska having the same talent as Stanford. I think Stanford is superior. Stanford's 2012 #1 recruiting class (total of 5) included Mountain View grad and All-American Brittany Howard (Jr. National Team), Oklahoma Gatorade Player of the Year Inky Ajanaku (obvious), two-time North Carolina Gatorade Player of the Year Madi Bugg (junior National team), National Gatorade Player of the Year Jordan Burgess (Junior National Team) and All-American Megan McGehee. Nebraska's 2013 #1 recruiting class (total of 8) included the Rolfzen's -oh/rs (junior national team), Kelly Hunter (junior national team ), Ethridge, Lyles and Justine (DS/Libero), and two middles. 4 out of the 5 Standford recruits have played critical roles in the line-up as freshman, sophomores and now juniors. Not surprised they are clicking as a team (as well as being better volleyball players). Nebraska has only played three - the Rolfzens and Justine (Libero).....other sparingly. So not only is there a difference in levels of players, but also in level of court time (to this date). Since you are mentioning honors you forgot to mention that the Rolfzens, Hunter, & Kira Larson all were All-Americans. The Rolfzens have both been Nebraska Gatorade POY. If Hunter wasn't from the same state as the Rolfzens she could have very well been a Gatorade POY as well. Kira Larson was also a Gatorade POY for North Dakota. Melanie Kiel has played for the U18 & U19 German National teams.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 22:39:21 GMT -5
I disagree with Nebraska having the same talent as Stanford. I think Stanford is superior. Stanford's 2012 #1 recruiting class (total of 5) included Mountain View grad and All-American Brittany Howard (Jr. National Team), Oklahoma Gatorade Player of the Year Inky Ajanaku (obvious), two-time North Carolina Gatorade Player of the Year Madi Bugg (junior National team), National Gatorade Player of the Year Jordan Burgess (Junior National Team) and All-American Megan McGehee. Nebraska's 2013 #1 recruiting class (total of 8) included the Rolfzen's -oh/rs (junior national team), Kelly Hunter (junior national team ), Ethridge, Lyles and Justine (DS/Libero), and two middles. 4 out of the 5 Standford recruits have played critical roles in the line-up as freshman, sophomores and now juniors. Not surprised they are clicking as a team (as well as being better volleyball players). Nebraska has only played three - the Rolfzens and Justine (Libero).....other sparingly. So not only is there a difference in levels of players, but also in level of court time (to this date). Since you are mentioning honors you forgot to mention that the Rolfzens, Hunter, & Kira Larson all were All-Americans. The Rolfzens have both been Nebraska Gatorade POY. If Hunter wasn't from the same state as the Rolfzens she could have very well been a Gatorade POY as well. Kira Larson was also a Gatorade POY for North Dakota. Melanie Kiel has played for the U18 & U19 German National teams. Those details don't matter because they weaken their argument.
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Post by usvballfan on Sept 3, 2014 22:54:11 GMT -5
I don't understand why these comments weaken the argument that Stanford has higher level players. I guess maybe I put too much clout to being on a higher level team (USA Junior National Team). Players are judged/evaluated by USA Volleyball, not the colleges they are committed to). Players don't make those teams unless USA volleyball coaches think they are worthy.
That being said. We can't evaluate each player at each position in a later post. But Dunning has chose to play the best players when they were a freshman until now.....bonus Stanford.
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Post by usvballfan on Sept 3, 2014 22:54:21 GMT -5
I don't understand why these comments weaken the argument that Stanford has higher level players. I guess maybe I put too much clout to being on a higher level team (USA Junior National Team). Players are judged/evaluated by USA Volleyball, not the colleges they are committed to). Players don't make those teams unless USA volleyball coaches think they are worthy.
That being said. We can't evaluate each player at each position in a later post. But Dunning has chose to play the best players when they were a freshman until now.....bonus Stanford.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 23:16:02 GMT -5
I don't understand why these comments weaken the argument that Stanford has higher level players. I guess maybe I put too much clout to being on a higher level team (USA Junior National Team). Players are judged/evaluated by USA Volleyball, not the colleges they are committed to). Players don't make those teams unless USA volleyball coaches think they are worthy. ...get serious. Not every junior player plays for USA teams because THEY decide not to.
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Post by wonderwarthog79 on Sept 4, 2014 1:33:53 GMT -5
Sorry, I disagree with this completely. Burgess is nothing like Mueller. I actually don't think the comparison to Robinson is a stretch. Hell, I think Burgess will be as good (if not better) than Robinson by the time she's done at Stanford. I don't wish to get involved in a comparison of players, so I won't. But I do think Burgess has stalled in terms of development. If she has improved since her frosh year, the improvement is slight. I'm not trying to knock on her, I just think Burgess came in very seasoned in all areas of her game. What I never saw in Burgess was a big, undeveloped upside ... so the idea that I don't notice any significant improvement makes sense. There wasn't much room to improve her skill set. Part of your perception might be related to Burgess's expertise as a Freshman. Maybe that's what you mean in your last sentence. She was just flat out better at every part of the game than the average Frosh. BTW, she not only improved in her Sophomore year, she improved DURING her sophomore year. She was one of the main reasons Stanford was successful in the second part of the year. Comparing players is a fool's pursuit, so I won't try, but I was sure impressed with her contribution later in the year.
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Post by coloradokidd on Sept 4, 2014 6:24:50 GMT -5
I think of it more simply. I've always thought of the Stanford and NE recruiting classes being somewhat similar, except that NE is a year behind. So I tend to judge this years NE team as compared to Stanford's team this time last year. I think overall there is a lot more similarities than differences.
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Post by bkedane on Sept 4, 2014 7:54:57 GMT -5
So you're saying you've had day to day contact with both players, or received the information from Dunning and Cook and/or the Stanford and Nebraska players? Ok. Thanks. You're welcome. When did you have this extensive contact with both the Stanford and Nebraska teams?
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