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Post by joetrinsey on Oct 19, 2014 10:59:24 GMT -5
The one thing that's missing from volleyball that is simple and common in other sports coverage (especially baseball and basketball) is the lineup and matchups. Part of the reason for that is time. In baseball, there is plenty of time between plays and there are constant references to who's at bat, who is on deck, relief pitcher warming up, etc. In volleyball, one of the most important things you can easily see when you attend a match in person is substitutions and rotations. But on most volleyball broadcasts subs and rotations are usually completely ignored. This could be fixed with graphics. After sideouts or during substitutions, put up a small six-position square in the corner of the screen with names. It could be interactive with showing the rotation or showing subs. It would be shown at every sideout and every substition. The announcers could reference it, or ignore it. There could be a separate graphic that is shown at key times that shows the front row players names on both sides of the net...again a six-position square in the corner of the screen. I suspect if one network began using it, soon all would. And it would have the added bonus of having the announcers maybe begin to focus on this part of the game, instead of telling long-winded stories or talking about best three out of five...fifth set to 15, libero wears a different color jersey, blah blah blah....the stuff that just detracts from the broadcast. They do that in Japan on their broadcasts when they host international tournaments. It just stays in the bottom corner- a little rotating 6-courter for both teams. It's pretty cool as it lets you see who's in the frontrow for both teams and who's about to come up to serve. Kind of like showing who's "on-deck" for baseball. Of course, they also have 8-10 cameras, a sideline reporter, and a broadcast audience of 10 million+, so I'm sure the production budget is quite a bit higher.
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Post by stand on Oct 19, 2014 12:02:05 GMT -5
A bunch of self serving look at me egomaniacs who days are numbered........... ... and will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes! LOL! Maybe you should switch to de-caf? Just sayin... I liked the commentator on BTN who, after the refs blew a call and the next serve went into the net, said "ball don't lie." I know it is cliche but at least they are starting to realize that they are talking to volleyball fans, not idiots (although the terms are not mutually exclusive).
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Post by tomclen on Oct 19, 2014 12:05:07 GMT -5
The one thing that's missing from volleyball that is simple and common in other sports coverage (especially baseball and basketball) is the lineup and matchups. Part of the reason for that is time. In baseball, there is plenty of time between plays and there are constant references to who's at bat, who is on deck, relief pitcher warming up, etc. In volleyball, one of the most important things you can easily see when you attend a match in person is substitutions and rotations. But on most volleyball broadcasts subs and rotations are usually completely ignored. This could be fixed with graphics. After sideouts or during substitutions, put up a small six-position square in the corner of the screen with names. It could be interactive with showing the rotation or showing subs. It would be shown at every sideout and every substition. The announcers could reference it, or ignore it. There could be a separate graphic that is shown at key times that shows the front row players names on both sides of the net...again a six-position square in the corner of the screen. I suspect if one network began using it, soon all would. And it would have the added bonus of having the announcers maybe begin to focus on this part of the game, instead of telling long-winded stories or talking about best three out of five...fifth set to 15, libero wears a different color jersey, blah blah blah....the stuff that just detracts from the broadcast. They do that in Japan on their broadcasts when they host international tournaments. It just stays in the bottom corner- a little rotating 6-courter for both teams. It's pretty cool as it lets you see who's in the frontrow for both teams and who's about to come up to serve. Kind of like showing who's "on-deck" for baseball. Of course, they also have 8-10 cameras, a sideline reporter, and a broadcast audience of 10 million+, so I'm sure the production budget is quite a bit higher. Interesting that Japanese broadcasts already use this. There is rotation and substitution software and apps currently available. Many coaching staffs already use it. I'm not sure if scorers at matches use this software or if it's all still done on paper. I don't know that it would be that costly for the networks to use something similar. I suppose you would have to have at least one production person assigned to the system to keep the graphics accurate during a match. I think it would improve the broadcasts tremendously, and it would probably make the announcing crews much more focus and less dependent on their crutch phrases that get repeated over and over. I just rewatched the UW/UW match, and it was interesting on match point...the announce team didn't say a word after the serve. Total silence, they allowed the action to speak for itself and then they talked after a few seconds of shots of the crowd and team erupting. That's what broadcast crews need to do more of...remain silent at times. You don't have to describe every single contact.
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Post by joetrinsey on Oct 19, 2014 18:04:56 GMT -5
I agree. I've said this 1000 times to anybody who will listen: the way to grow television audience for a sport is not to "dumb it down" but to educate the audience.
There are far more adults who play volleyball on a regular basis than who play tackle football, but when you watch a football game the broadcasters speak on a much higher level than a volleyball match. There are millions of female football fans who have never put on a helmet a day in their lives, but they understand that when Peyton Manning goes up to the line and shouts a whole bunch of stuff that he's changing the play- or maybe just pretending to. They can understand that "blitzing" means rushing a whole bunch of guys at the QB to try to get the sack, but at a higher risk of giving up a big play. All my friends who are Eagles fans somehow manage to understand the complex notion that their new coach prefers lots of short, quick pass plays rather than trying to throw the ball deep down the field.
Football also does a really good job of setting up matchups: "Richard Sherman has been running his mouth about shutting down this receiver all week. It's 3rd and long let's see if they go at him."
What football broadcasts don't try to do is explain or lecture about the boring complexities of the game. The rules on pre-snap motion, the number of guys who have to be set, and when they have to be set, etc, are really complicated. When there's a penalty, they generally just say something short and/or just go to the refs call. They don't bother trying to explain illegal motion calls or why we need illegal motion, unless it comes at a crucial moment, then they dive into it like it's a Supreme Court case and ham it up for increased drama.
When watching a volleyball broadcast, what are some things you always hear:
(1) A detailed explanation of what the libero is, why they wear a different-color jersey, and the substitution rules. All this is unnecessary! Most people watching volleyball already know what the libero is, and anybody who doesn't can be mollified by a simple comment like, "libero Jane Smith, the defensive specialist in the different-color jersey..." and understand that, like soccer, volleyball has some sort of different rules for one player. It doesn't take long to realize that the libero only plays in the back row and is smaller than everybody else.
(2) An explanation of the scoring system. Again, nobody anymore even realizes that "rally score" is a thing- it's just how you keep score in volleyball. Explaining that they used to (more than 10 years ago!) have a different scoring system is somewhat interesting in a historical sense, but irrelevant to the actual game. Also, there's no real need to explain (at the beginning of the broadcast) that the game is played to 25, win by 2, and the 5th-game (if necessary!) is played to 15. Let it come about organically. Basketball announcers don't need to explain that "the game is 4 quarters, played until the time reaches 0, with the winner being the team who has the points at the end of the game, unless there's a tie, in which case they will play successive 'overtime' periods until one team has more points than the other." Just let it happen.
(3) The typical "hitting percentage is like batting average" comment. First of all, a significant portion of people who watch volleyball (especially the female market that volleyball is constantly trying to appeal to) probably don't even know what a good batting average is. Second of all, there's no need to go through the logic steps of "hitting percentage is like batting average and .300 is a good batting average so .300 must be a good hitting percentage but what about the middle hitting .400 are they the best hitter in the history of volleyball like a batter hitting .400 would be??" Just say, "She's hitting an outstanding .320 on the year, a really impressive number for an outside attacker, none of the other outsides in this match are over .250 for the season."
What they need more of is matchups and comparisons. Humans can learn almost anything really quickly if it's phrased in terms of comparisons:
"Team X runs their middles on a lot of Slides behind the setter [show clip of a Slide attack] while Team Y runs a lot of quick attack in front of the setter [show clip]. The Slide is easier to block against, but doesn't rely on the height of the hitter as much, and you can run it on passes from off the net. The Quick is harder to block and defend, but the timing needs to be precise and the passes need to be more accurate."
"Team X has Big Banger Outside matched up against Little Setter. Let's see if they're able to take advantage of the smaller blocker."
"Team X hits a lot of aggressive jump serves. They're harder to pass, but harder to keep in the court. Team Y doesn't serve as hard, but they keep them in, and trust their block and defense to win them points. Let's see which strategy is better."
You do see some of that, but it seems like they are afraid to get into anything resembling basic strategy. People aren't stupid, and a feeling of some complexity is actually good because it makes the game seem more important. Rather than trying to relate it to a gym class sport for "everybody" (and thus, nobody), they should be doing everything possible to show how these teams are playing at a level so far beyond what you played at the backyard BBQ that you, the viewer, should just sit back and watch in amazement.
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Post by tomclen on Oct 19, 2014 21:45:02 GMT -5
JOETRINSEY, That's one of the best critique's of 'most' vb broadcasts I've seen.
There are great VB broadcasters out there. But some that still need to learn the game better, imo. I think that's why they always fall back on crutches and talk too much without saying anything.
I just watched the replay of ESPN coverage of the Illinois at Nebraska match. I thought that broadcast was excellent. Sam Gore (?) says just enough to keep you informed. Hanna Werth, at times, not often, but at times, let her stories drag on too long. But I suspect she'll learn to more concise.
Her predictions and explanations about plays and what to expect on the next play were almost mind-blowing. I think she has the potential to be a a really great VB announcer. She seems like the type of person who could make up her mind to be great at just about anything.
I've heard some grumbling about her work in other threads, but this was the first time I've watched her do a broadcast. I don't understand the grumbling. Isn't she just one year removed from college? She has crazy potential.
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Post by mplssetter on Oct 20, 2014 0:14:57 GMT -5
I've heard 3 or 4 matches with Werth working. I'd say she's decent. I like Paul Sunderland. He's not afraid to be critical of the coaches and players. Al Scates is interesting, but sometimes goes off on tangents about the men's game from back in the day. Also, sometimes it's hard to hear him over the other noise.
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Post by beb12345 on Oct 20, 2014 5:32:33 GMT -5
They are bad. Just don't have any. Keep the score and stats available on screen and go from there.
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Post by MTC on Oct 20, 2014 9:18:50 GMT -5
There seems to be little evidence of intelligent life in many VB commentators. OTOH the game moves so fast that it doesn't give them much time to think.
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Post by joetrinsey on Oct 20, 2014 12:37:27 GMT -5
I've heard 3 or 4 matches with Werth working. I'd say she's decent. I like Paul Sunderland. He's not afraid to be critical of the coaches and players. Al Scates is interesting, but sometimes goes off on tangents about the men's game from back in the day. Also, sometimes it's hard to hear him over the other noise. Agreed, I like Sunderland. When you listen to his broadcasts of our matches, you can tell he is pulling for the USA (which is okay, because he's mostly speaking to an American audience) but at the same time he will critique a USA player or strategy when appropriate. It's tough having just one person in the booth because they can't play off each other and you risk getting some long-winded story. I think this is okay for a sport like baseball where the announcers (especially the local announcers for games that aren't televised nationally) are known to do this. It gives a "hometown" feel. However, for a sport like volleyball which is fast-paced and segmented, I think they should adopt the football model which is more of an ADD approach of constant little bursts of information. John Madden is often mocked for his, "look, see this, right there, BAM" delivery, but there's a reason he's one of the most famous broadcasters of all time. He told people what to watch for and then showed it to them, and had fun while doing it. I think consistency is really important too. One example of a sport's league that has done this brilliantly is UFC. Now, they do have fewer broadcasts than volleyball, but fans of UFC got to see the same two announcers almost every single time they tune in. We groan at Mike Goldberg's bad puns, we know that Joe Rogan will get really fired up about leg kicks and go off on at least one rant about the judges, etc. And again, even though very few people watching UFC actually compete in full-contact fighting, they don't dumb the broadcast down. In fact, it's almost the other way around where the fans of UFC learn so much about the sport, you get crowds of bros in Tapout shirts who swear they "know jujitsu" and will totally put you in a kimura if you look at them wrong. One of the big takeaways for me is that ESPN seems to have this weird thing where they assume everybody tuning into a volleyball match for the first time. If anything, it should be the other way around. I don't think you grow a niche sport by trying to instantly appeal to the mainstream. You grow a deep connection with a hardcore audience and enlist their aid in spreading the sport to others. What's weird to me is that I think ESPN has done an excellent job of doing this with soccer. In my perception, they didn't do this by explaining to people that the goalkeeper wears a different color jersey because they're allowed to use their hands and that the scores are often 2-1, just like hockey. They appealed to the hardcore soccer fans who already existed and made it seem like a cool niche sport, which made more people interested and want to get involved. They play up some of the cool differences about soccer appealed to a certain type of fan that doesn't want to sit around and watch football like everybody else, but instead wants to wear scarves and talk about how a player is "in good form" right now. I think there's some strides being taken, and I really think that women's volleyball could develop a strong broadcast audience in the USA. I hope progress can continue to be made.
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Post by bigfan on Oct 20, 2014 12:40:21 GMT -5
Pac-12 announcers are terrible.
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Post by Upfrontvb on Oct 20, 2014 12:41:39 GMT -5
I'm just happy that volleyball is on all sports channels now and that there are so many games!
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Post by volleydude444 on Oct 21, 2014 12:46:38 GMT -5
Thanks for all the responses guys, some really great stuff to think on. Full disclosure I've been a color commentator for the past few years at both the HS and college level. I enjoy doing it and I want to get better so I'm trying to avoid the pitfalls that are mentioned in this thread. I played and coached in the past but have been out of coaching for a few years and just want to make sure I'm still up on the game. Not talking down to the viewers is probably the biggest thing to take away from this. I had always suspected that vball fans felt that way but I was never really 100% sure, now it's confirmed which is good so thank you. I'm happy to say I've never explained the Libero rule ha ha ha!!! When an unusual play happens I'll usually explain the rule once, just for clarification but then that's it. I also like to know tactics/strategy myself but it's hard to chat with coaches before a match and get them to reveal anything specific so I'm sort of left to guess as the match goes on and see what plays out. Some stuff is obvious, some is not. I also try to track the rotations to see what match ups are interesting. Anymore feedback please keep it coming.
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Post by volleyguy on Oct 21, 2014 12:54:58 GMT -5
Thanks for all the responses guys, some really great stuff to think on. Full disclosure I've been a color commentator for the past few years at both the HS and college level. I enjoy doing it and I want to get better so I'm trying to avoid the pitfalls that are mentioned in this thread. I played and coached in the past but have been out of coaching for a few years and just want to make sure I'm still up on the game. Not talking down to the viewers is probably the biggest thing to take away from this. I had always suspected that vball fans felt that way but I was never really 100% sure, now it's confirmed which is good so thank you. I'm happy to say I've never explained the Libero rule ha ha ha!!! When an unusual play happens I'll usually explain the rule once, just for clarification but then that's it. I also like to know tactics/strategy myself but it's hard to chat with coaches before a match and get them to reveal anything specific so I'm sort of left to guess as the match goes on and see what plays out. Some stuff is obvious, some is not. I also try to track the rotations to see what match ups are interesting. Anymore feedback please keep it coming. Sorry if we said you suck.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Oct 21, 2014 13:03:29 GMT -5
They should just say that the libero is like the DP in softball - plays in the field, but doesn't go up to hit.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Oct 21, 2014 13:06:56 GMT -5
If she [Werth] was on another game I was watching, I would turn the sound off. Why bother? You can't hear half of what she's saying, anyway.
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