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Post by volleytology on Nov 4, 2014 22:40:20 GMT -5
So, if that's true, why are there so many successful women coaches in college basketball? www.ncaa.com/history/basketball-women/d1Strange no? Are you suggesting that somehow vball is better coached by males than females, and basketball is not? How many of these female basketball coaches are married with children ?
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Post by n00b on Nov 4, 2014 22:55:57 GMT -5
So, if that's true, why are there so many successful women coaches in college basketball? www.ncaa.com/history/basketball-women/d1Strange no? Are you suggesting that somehow vball is better coached by males than females, and basketball is not? Because the best male basketball coaches coach men. That obviously isn't true for volleyball. If you forced Mike Krzyzewski, Jim Boeheim, John Calipari and Rick Pitino to coach women's basketball, I bet they'd be very successful.
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Post by pogoball on Nov 4, 2014 22:58:00 GMT -5
It's been posted on here before that for every female applicant for college volleyball head coaching positions, there are a large number of more qualified male applicants, yet the female applicants tend to get hired. It's really reverse discrimination if that is true.
I can say that from personal knowledge and experience that this is the case for high schools in my area. If a woman applies for a head coaching job, she gets it, almost no matter how unqualified. This policy often leads to some terrible hires or some hires of young women who leave in short order and on short notice when they inevitably have a life change (new job, new marriage, whatever).
There is one local school that is notorious for this. They have never hired a male coach in their 6 years of existence, but are now on their 5th female head coach. Their latest hire was dismissed from her prior school with prejudice. I know for a fact that there are a half-dozen male applicants with excellent resumes every time it opens up because it is a new school in a wealthy area with a large base of club players. It should be one of the stronger teams in the area, but it continues to cycle through young female coach after young female coach. I'm pretty sure that the male applicants are not even interviewed for the position.
As a parent, I'd much rather my daughter be coached by someone qualified more than by someone who has a particular gender. If I had a son, I'd feel the same way and would be fine with a female head coach for him.
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Post by utoolity on Nov 4, 2014 23:16:26 GMT -5
Just a critique on the article.
They replaced the Vball coach with a dude. But stated that females dont get other head coaching jobs, yet they interviewed the former coach and she is a head coach in Chicago. They replaced the coach featured in the article with a female. Perhaps the focus should have been on the other three positions? And at no point did they reference the winning %'s of the other four positions.
Not a lot of facts or stats in the article to back up the suppositions made. I would like to see more before commenting on anything as divisive as this topic in our profession.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Nov 4, 2014 23:23:09 GMT -5
So, if that's true, why are there so many successful women coaches in college basketball? www.ncaa.com/history/basketball-women/d1Strange no? Are you suggesting that somehow vball is better coached by males than females, and basketball is not? How many of these female basketball coaches are married with children ? Pat Summit, Kim Mulkey, Sylvia Hatchell, Frese at Maryland, McGraw at Notre Dame, among others. No shortage of NC coaches with hubbies and kids.
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Post by volleytology on Nov 5, 2014 0:01:02 GMT -5
How many of these female basketball coaches are married with children ? Pat Summit, Kim Mulkey, Sylvia Hatchell, Frese at Maryland, McGraw at Notre Dame, among others. No shortage of NC coaches with hubbies and kids. Haha, good one
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Post by tommyboy on Nov 5, 2014 0:01:42 GMT -5
The reality is that there only a small group of schools that have a realistic possibility to win a national championship. AD's at those schools are going to hire not based on gender, but based on success at a previous school. Female coaches must make their way up the ladder and those that have the opportunity must build something special just the same as a male coach. Florida, Northern Iowa, Duke, Michigan State and Iowa State have done that; female coaches at Iowa, Indiana, and Mississippi State have not.
There are plenty of female coaches at the lower levels of DI and lower divisions, but they need to win and move up. Many of the best female coaches are more loyal to their smaller school than their male counterparts and just have decided for family or other reasons to stay put. Even those like Peterson at UNI or Johnson at ISU have been offered bigger and better opportunities, but decided to stay. There is nothing wrong with that, but it will be hard to win a championship at their current schools.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Nov 5, 2014 0:04:05 GMT -5
Pat Summit, Kim Mulkey, Sylvia Hatchell, Frese at Maryland, McGraw at Notre Dame, among others. No shortage of NC coaches with hubbies and kids. Haha, good one You asked, I answered. Don't like the answer? That's your problem.
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Post by badgerbreath on Nov 5, 2014 0:05:38 GMT -5
So, if that's true, why are there so many successful women coaches in college basketball? www.ncaa.com/history/basketball-women/d1Strange no? Are you suggesting that somehow vball is better coached by males than females, and basketball is not? Because the best male basketball coaches coach men. That obviously isn't true for volleyball. If you forced Mike Krzyzewski, Jim Boeheim, John Calipari and Rick Pitino to coach women's basketball, I bet they'd be very successful. So you're saying that if men had been forced to coach women's basketball, that none of the NC BB teams would have been coached by women? Because that is the comparison I'm making...no women NC coaches in volleyball vs mostly women NC coaches in basketball. I too have problems with the article failing to state the performance of the coaches fired, but the way the field hockey coach seems to have been treated looks pretty bad, and extremely demoralizing to the staff.
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Post by badgerbreath on Nov 5, 2014 0:14:53 GMT -5
The reality is that there only a small group of schools that have a realistic possibility to win a national championship. AD's at those schools are going to hire not based on gender, but based on success at a previous school. Female coaches must make their way up the ladder and those that have the opportunity must build something special just the same as a male coach. Florida, Northern Iowa, Duke, Michigan State and Iowa State have done that; female coaches at Iowa, Indiana, and Mississippi State have not. There are plenty of female coaches at the lower levels of DI and lower divisions, but they need to win and move up. Many of the best female coaches are more loyal to their smaller school than their male counterparts and just have decided for family or other reasons to stay put. Even those like Peterson at UNI or Johnson at ISU have been offered bigger and better opportunities, but decided to stay. There is nothing wrong with that, but it will be hard to win a championship at their current schools. This sounds like a sensible hypothesis to me. So maybe it is a seniority issue...abundance of senior male coaches who came first and occupied the top level jobs first, then a wave of female coaches, some of whom are successful but haven't worked their way up yet for various reasons.
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Post by volleyfan24 on Nov 5, 2014 4:50:23 GMT -5
Thinking right now off the top of my head I can only name three coaches of programs that are relevant in D1 Women's college VB at the moment. Kritza at Colorado, Johnson-Lynch at Iowa State and of course my favorite Mary Wise of Florida. If Wise never wins a NC I will be very said as she has been a relevant volleyball coach and the class of her conference and put Florida volleyball on the map. There is a notable absence of female coaches, which is strange I wonder if it is hiring or circumstance. An honorable mention for me is Salima as we all know she could have several head coaching positions across the country if she ever desired.
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Post by volleyball20102011 on Nov 5, 2014 8:21:57 GMT -5
Sad but true. No women have won a national championship before. Besides a lot of women get out of coaching because of family reasons and the amount of time that it takes which is why so many young women start off and do have so many advantages at getting in but don't stick to it because of that reason. I was aware of the fact that no woman has coached a team to a Div I championship, but I was more referring to what the post said about a big time AD hiring a man because 33/33 championships have been won by men...that is just idiotic logic, like saying only a man can be president of the US because only men have done it before. Someday we will have a woman president and someday a woman will coach a team to a Div I national championship! Total wrong use of an analogy. Plenty of women have coached D1 programs. Yet none have won the championship. In fact, many years the final 4 consists of 3 or even 4 make coaches. Again, not saying they're not great female coaches. There are. They just haven't been as successful as male coaches (and the numbers go beyond the 33 NCAA championships). My point is that if you're in a big time conference (big 10, big 12, PAC 10, ect) and if you're going for it all trying to win a championship, then hiring a male is your best bet. I am not saying only makes should coach. I think every great coaching staff needs a really strong women on staff. But for whatever reason (recruiting, training, motivation, ect), males seem to be doing a better job than females.
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Post by gophergal on Nov 5, 2014 8:48:55 GMT -5
Thanks, gobucky, for posting the article link. Very thought-provoking. I had a sense of deja vu while reading it. If you substitute "football" for "volleyball" and "black" for "female" it reads a lot like the articles written about the NFL 25 years ago before the Raiders hired Art Shell.
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Post by Wiswell on Nov 5, 2014 8:58:59 GMT -5
Steering this a little different direction (or back in the original direction), do you think there is a double standard from the players on their expectations of how they think they will be treated by a male versus female coach? Do they think the female is going to "nurture" them but the male is going to "push" them? So if the female head coach, for lack of a better term, acts more like what a player expects out of male coach, it seems unexpected and thus "verbal abuse"? Or is it simply a matter of male players thinking they have to act tough about it and keep silent, versus female players trying to take action.
As for the male vs. female coaches in the ranks, I think there are a variety of factors. I would be curious to see a study of all coaches with families on what the spouses' roles are? ie, stay at home, career professional, etc, volunteer coaches.
On the males make better coaches argument that some people are throwing out there, I call b.s. You do realize that there have only been about a dozen different coaches over 30+ years of championships, right?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 9:33:31 GMT -5
The fact that Larissa Libby still has a job (while cycling through several male assistants) with her team's incredibly poor performance (and high attrition rate) over the past several years tells me that it has nothing to do with gender. She's still employed, and although many think action should be taken there, she seems safe.
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