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Post by vbnerd on Jun 9, 2015 7:39:46 GMT -5
You are assuming Bates would be a better DS than MacDonald. I think bates has a better chance beating Duello and Gillis.
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Post by SportyBucky on Jun 9, 2015 9:12:35 GMT -5
You are assuming Bates would be a better DS than MacDonald. I think bates has a better chance beating Duello and Gillis. That's correct. In my opinion, the biggest jump in the game when coming to college is speed for blocking and defending. I believe it's easier for an attacker to transition than it is for a defender. So yes, I am assuming that Bates, having played lights out in Big in the back row last third of the season, is going to beat out a high school player. That, and you also have a back row attack option.
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Post by txvbcoach on Jun 9, 2015 17:24:45 GMT -5
You are assuming Bates would be a better DS than MacDonald. I think bates has a better chance beating Duello and Gillis. That's correct. In my opinion, the biggest jump in the game when coming to college is speed for blocking and defending. I believe it's easier for an attacker to transition than it is for a defender. So yes, I am assuming that Bates, having played lights out in Big in the back row last third of the season, is going to beat out a high school player. That, and you also have a back row attack option. Mcdonald will be better than Bates. AVCA first team all american and excelling in the All Star game show that she's already ready for college level players.
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Post by vbnerd on Jun 9, 2015 18:13:30 GMT -5
I don't know that random honors mean much but having watched MacDonald and Bates, I'd give Bates a 30% at winning that competition, and part of that is factoring in that Bates could swing from the back row.
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Post by bucky415 on Jun 9, 2015 23:26:06 GMT -5
Is anyone else here seeing the irony of discussing the possibility of the player who led Wisconsin in kills and reception attempts in a year where the Badgers won 31 matches, won the Big Ten, and made the Final Eight losing her spot, given the recent history of the program?
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Post by SportyBucky on Jun 10, 2015 7:57:50 GMT -5
Is anyone else here seeing the irony of discussing the possibility of the player who led Wisconsin in kills and reception attempts in a year where the Badgers won 31 matches, won the Big Ten, and made the Final Eight losing her spot, given the recent history of the program? The same discussion that occurred two years ago when Deme led the team to the NC match. Not sure it's irony as much as it is the reality of competition and improving.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 10, 2015 8:06:15 GMT -5
I don't see the situations as comparable at all. Bates was significantly better than Morales, despite the attention Deme got.
Bates led the team in kills.... hit .201 as a freshman (.234 in conference matches), and 2 pins are graduating. Morales hit .182 as a junior (also in conference) on fewer swings, didn't pass as well, and had everyone around her coming back.
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Post by SportyBucky on Jun 10, 2015 9:54:48 GMT -5
I don't see the situations as comparable at all. Bates was significantly better than Morales, despite the attention Deme got. Bates led the team in kills.... hit .201 as a freshman (.234 in conference matches), and 2 pins are graduating. Morales hit .182 as a junior (also in conference) on fewer swings, didn't pass as well, and had everyone around her coming back. I think the situation is comparable, although not the exact same situation. It's certainly within reason to see the situation as similar. Your statement, not "comparable AT ALL" is the stretch in this conversation. Here's the comparison...both undersized. Both produced well, but not great. Both were recognized for talent. Both improved over the course of the season. Deme was truly clutch, as was Bates. Both good defensively. If these statements don't make the situations at least marginally comparable, I'm at a loss.Deme made the all final four team. She was pretty impressive regardless of slightly lower numbers. It's a stretch to say Deme didn't pass well. She passed decently. If she didn't pass well at all, she wouldn't have played DS her senior year, and play it pretty well. Same could be said of Bates' passing until the end of the season. Neither dominated competition. Both played with fire and inspired, more so Deme.
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jun 10, 2015 11:43:55 GMT -5
I think it's similar, but also different.
Bates in 2014 put up better offensive numbers than Deme in 2013. -Bates 2014: 2.85 kills/set hitting .201 (331 kills - 149 errors / 904 attempts) -Deme 2013: 2.78 kills/set hitting .182 (406 kills - 195 errors / 1160 attempts)
Bates in 2014 was also a better blocker than Deme in 2013. -Bates 2014: 0.59 blocks/set (2 solo + 66 assist) -Deme 2013: 0.27 blocks/set (3 solo + 36 assist)
Deme in 2013 had better floor defense than Bates in 2014. -Bates 2014: 2.30 digs/set (267 total) -Deme 2013: 2.76 digs/set (403 total)
These are just full-season stats, and remember that Bates was eased in at the start of the season and didn't consistently play 6 rotations or serve for herself until Caroline's injury in early November.
Bates was also the only incoming hitter in 2013. With Annemarie's graduation, we lost a DS, so we needed someone else to fill that hole. Bates was looking better offensively than Deme, and Deme was looking better defensively than Bates, BUT Bates was looking better than Ellen in the back row (Ellen's 2013 stats: 0.93 digs/set, 136 total). So it made the most sense to move Deme to OH alongside Ellen, and have Deme play back row for Ellen, while Bates played front row and some - eventually all - back row.
This year we're losing 3 DS (Carol, Deme, KT) and 3 pin hitters (Court, Ellen & Jules). The need for leadership and maturity on the court is going to be much greater. The other competition for the OH spots are freshmen who aren't great passers and a sophomore transfer who did not have spectacular back row showing her freshman year. The only way I see Bates making a Deme-esque move to DS in 2015 is if the stats make a convincing case that both Gillis and Duello have better hitting and blocking numbers than Bates, while Bates has better digging numbers than one of them (probably Duello). As of right now, I don't see that happening at the beginning of the season. We'll see what happens as September unfolds, but I'm fairly confident that Bates keeps her OH position.
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Post by SportyBucky on Jun 10, 2015 11:51:37 GMT -5
I think it's similar, but also different. Bates in 2014 put up better offensive numbers than Deme in 2013. -Bates 2014: 2.85 kills/set hitting .201 (331 kills - 149 errors / 904 attempts) -Deme 2013: 2.78 kills/set hitting .182 (406 kills - 195 errors / 1160 attempts) Bates in 2014 was also a better blocker than Deme in 2013. -Bates 2014: 0.59 blocks/set (2 solo + 66 assist) -Deme 2013: 0.27 blocks/set (3 solo + 36 assist) Deme in 2013 had better floor defense than Bates in 2014. -Bates 2014: 2.30 digs/set (267 total) -Deme 2013: 2.76 digs/set (403 total) These are just full-season stats, and remember that Bates was eased in at the start of the season and didn't consistently play 6 rotations or serve for herself until Caroline's injury in early November. Bates was also the only incoming hitter in 2013. With Annemarie's graduation, we lost a DS, so we needed someone else to fill that hole. Bates was looking better offensively than Deme, and Deme was looking better defensively than Bates, BUT Bates was looking better than Ellen in the back row (Ellen's 2013 stats: 0.93 digs/set, 136 total). So it made the most sense to move Deme to OH alongside Ellen, and have Deme play back row for Ellen, while Bates played front row and some - eventually all - back row. This year we're losing 3 DS (Carol, Deme, KT) and 3 pin hitters (Court, Ellen & Jules). The need for leadership and maturity on the court is going to be much greater. The other competition for the OH spots are freshmen who aren't great passers and a sophomore transfer who did not have spectacular back row showing her freshman year. The only way I see Bates making a Deme-esque move to DS in 2015 is if the stats make a convincing case that both Gillis and Duello have better hitting and blocking numbers than Bates, while Bates has better digging numbers than one of them (probably Duello). As of right now, I don't see that happening at the beginning of the season. We'll see what happens as September unfolds, but I'm fairly confident that Bates keeps her OH position. Gillis can pass pretty well and defends well, so I see her playing 6 as pretty much a given. I believe she is a bigger presence in the front row than Bates and will play. Kriskova played six rotations and may do so again at RS. If Kriskova does, what's to say the best hitter and blocker doesn't play? I don't think it's a stretch to see Duello in the front row with Bates DS'ing for her. Leadership will be there with three returning, outspoken AAs and an all big frosh/now soph on the court as a DS. Not that far off to simply dismiss as incomparable.
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Post by big10vb on Jun 10, 2015 12:12:54 GMT -5
That's correct. In my opinion, the biggest jump in the game when coming to college is speed for blocking and defending. I believe it's easier for an attacker to transition than it is for a defender. So yes, I am assuming that Bates, having played lights out in Big in the back row last third of the season, is going to beat out a high school player. That, and you also have a back row attack option. Mcdonald will be better than Bates. AVCA first team all american and excelling in the All Star game show that she's already ready for college level players. "excelling in the All Star game show that she's already ready for college level players"? That is an interesting statement.
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jun 10, 2015 12:37:53 GMT -5
I think it's similar, but also different. Bates in 2014 put up better offensive numbers than Deme in 2013. -Bates 2014: 2.85 kills/set hitting .201 (331 kills - 149 errors / 904 attempts) -Deme 2013: 2.78 kills/set hitting .182 (406 kills - 195 errors / 1160 attempts) Bates in 2014 was also a better blocker than Deme in 2013. -Bates 2014: 0.59 blocks/set (2 solo + 66 assist) -Deme 2013: 0.27 blocks/set (3 solo + 36 assist) Deme in 2013 had better floor defense than Bates in 2014. -Bates 2014: 2.30 digs/set (267 total) -Deme 2013: 2.76 digs/set (403 total) These are just full-season stats, and remember that Bates was eased in at the start of the season and didn't consistently play 6 rotations or serve for herself until Caroline's injury in early November. Bates was also the only incoming hitter in 2013. With Annemarie's graduation, we lost a DS, so we needed someone else to fill that hole. Bates was looking better offensively than Deme, and Deme was looking better defensively than Bates, BUT Bates was looking better than Ellen in the back row (Ellen's 2013 stats: 0.93 digs/set, 136 total). So it made the most sense to move Deme to OH alongside Ellen, and have Deme play back row for Ellen, while Bates played front row and some - eventually all - back row. This year we're losing 3 DS (Carol, Deme, KT) and 3 pin hitters (Court, Ellen & Jules). The need for leadership and maturity on the court is going to be much greater. The other competition for the OH spots are freshmen who aren't great passers and a sophomore transfer who did not have spectacular back row showing her freshman year. The only way I see Bates making a Deme-esque move to DS in 2015 is if the stats make a convincing case that both Gillis and Duello have better hitting and blocking numbers than Bates, while Bates has better digging numbers than one of them (probably Duello). As of right now, I don't see that happening at the beginning of the season. We'll see what happens as September unfolds, but I'm fairly confident that Bates keeps her OH position. Gillis can pass pretty well and defends well, so I see her playing 6 as pretty much a given. I believe she is a bigger presence in the front row than Bates and will play. Kriskova played six rotations and may do so again at RS. If Kriskova does, what's to say the best hitter and blocker doesn't play? I don't think it's a stretch to see Duello in the front row with Bates DS'ing for her. Leadership will be there with three returning, outspoken AAs and an all big frosh/now soph on the court as a DS. Not that far off to simply dismiss as incomparable. 1. I didn't say it was incomparable. I compared and contrasted them, and gave my opinion on the likelihood of it happening based on the evidence. 2. Gillis did not pass or block or hit so well her freshman year compared to Bates: 2.14 kills/set, 0.25 blocks/set, 1.86 digs/set. She had a higher error rate for both attacks and blocks than Bates. Bates had a way better freshman year than Gillis did, against similar level competition. I have confidence Gillis will improve, and clearly so does Sheff, or he wouldn't have wanted her to transfer, but that's just it: she needs to improve if she's going to challenge for a starting spot, especially one where she plays 6 rotations. 3. If Kriskova plays 6 rotations, then maybe A-Mac DSes for one of the OHs and the other either plays 6 rotations or gets subbed out for a better passer in the back row. Maybe that better passer is Bates. Maybe not. But I've also previously said that I think it's best to DS Kriskova, and given my reasoning. The bottom line is that we know what Bates can do, we know that Gillis has work to do, and we DON'T know how Duello will transition to the college game. So while it's possible that Bates/Duello 2015 will be a repeat of Deme/Bates 2014, I don't think it likely.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 12:47:43 GMT -5
Gillis can pass pretty well and defends well, so I see her playing 6 as pretty much a given. I believe she is a bigger presence in the front row than Bates and will play. Kriskova played six rotations and may do so again at RS. If Kriskova does, what's to say the best hitter and blocker doesn't play? I don't think it's a stretch to see Duello in the front row with Bates DS'ing for her. Leadership will be there with three returning, outspoken AAs and an all big frosh/now soph on the court as a DS. Not that far off to simply dismiss as incomparable. 1. I didn't say it was incomparable. I compared and contrasted them, and gave my opinion on the likelihood of it happening based on the evidence. 2. Gillis did not pass or block or hit so well her freshman year compared to Bates: 2.14 kills/set, 0.25 blocks/set, 1.86 digs/set. She had a higher error rate for both attacks and blocks than Bates. Bates had a way better freshman year than Gillis did, against similar level competition. I have confidence Gillis will improve, and clearly so does Sheff, or he wouldn't have wanted her to transfer, but that's just it: she needs to improve if she's going to challenge for a starting spot, especially one where she plays 6 rotations. 3. If Kriskova plays 6 rotations, then maybe A-Mac DSes for one of the OHs and the other either plays 6 rotations or gets subbed out for a better passer in the back row. Maybe that better passer is Bates. Maybe not. But I've also previously said that I think it's best to DS Kriskova, and given my reasoning. The bottom line is that we know what Bates can do, we know that Gillis has work to do, and we DON'T know how Duello will transition to the college game. So while it's possible that Bates/Duello 2015 will be a repeat of Deme/Bates 2014, I don't think it likely. Can't look at stats in a vacuum and assume no other factors besides performance influenced those stats. You're forgetting that Gillis didn't play the entire season for USC. When you listed Ellen's digging stats, you forget that she only played one half of a back row rotation when she served. She never played six rotations. And, these stats are not "evidence." The only "evidence" that matters will be relative performance once preseason starts in August. Nothing else will matter in determining who plays and who doesn't.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 10, 2015 12:58:09 GMT -5
I don't know why people are putting Bates on the bench behind someone who was inferior to her in every aspect of the game last year (Gillis), someone who she played in front of (Kriskova) and a true freshman who is likely quite a ways away from primetime (Duello). Not only that, they're putting her on the bench behind all three of them!
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Post by lucky5 on Jun 10, 2015 12:59:18 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts.... I also see a possibility of Bates (all round) and Duello ( being ds'd in back row) playing outside and Gillis playing right side. Gillis is incredibly versatile. Might happen....
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