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Post by elevationvb on Apr 11, 2015 14:03:01 GMT -5
And now for the BIG question: Why didn't Mick red-shirt his still not-recovered-from-an-overuse-injury athlete? The treatment is COMPLETE rest for what, 3 months? Way to show how much you care about your athletes. Don't think this needs to turn into a bash Mick thread. It's a disservice to her story.
Name your team and coach and I'm confident we can find the same story.
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Post by VBCOACH on Apr 11, 2015 17:58:20 GMT -5
And now for the BIG question: Why didn't Mick red-shirt his still not-recovered-from-an-overuse-injury athlete? The treatment is COMPLETE rest for what, 3 months? Way to show how much you care about your athletes. Don't think this needs to turn into a bash Mick thread. It's a disservice to her story.
Name your team and coach and I'm confident we can find the same story.Mick was just the obvious example because of the USC connection. But the question still deserves an answer. Why did Mick (in this case) endanger the career of a player when the obvious decision was a medical redshirt? Two years ago. Russ gave a medical redshirt to Paulina, who had an overuse injury (shin splints?) He also resisted the urge to play Washington last year until she was fully recovered from her injury. Whenever Pacific star Elsa Stegemann, returning from knee surgery, landed on one foot in practice, John Dunning took her out of practice until she learned to land on two feet. Lots of coaches withheld players from playing for the safety of the player. And, yes, some did not. But why not in this case, when it was so obvious?
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Post by rainbowbadger on Apr 11, 2015 19:19:42 GMT -5
Not being privy to the medical details, we can't say for certain. It's also possible that she wanted to come back and pushed for it, only to realize later that a break was what she'd needed all along.
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Post by VBCOACH on Apr 11, 2015 20:43:40 GMT -5
Not being privy to the medical details, we can't say for certain. It's also possible that she wanted to come back and pushed for it, only to realize later that a break was what she'd needed all along. Actually, I heard (here on volleytalk, I think) that she DID want to play through it last year. However, it's not her decision. Just like in the NFL, if you're concussed, you don't get to decide if you're going back in the game or not. YOU'RE OUT!
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Post by Garand on Apr 12, 2015 9:49:15 GMT -5
Some very nice insight from an elite player, and nicely expressed. I hope she comes back even better than before.
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Post by rainbowbadger on Apr 12, 2015 10:19:47 GMT -5
Not being privy to the medical details, we can't say for certain. It's also possible that she wanted to come back and pushed for it, only to realize later that a break was what she'd needed all along. Actually, I heard (here on volleytalk, I think) that she DID want to play through it last year. However, it's not her decision. Just like in the NFL, if you're concussed, you don't get to decide if you're going back in the game or not. YOU'RE OUT! Well, but concussions are a pretty cut and dried case. You are out until you're back to neurological baseline and have rested for a prescribed period. This is a lot more nebulous. Imaging could've shown Nwanebu's fracture to be healed, and she could've said she was ready, but her body just needed more of a break than anybody realized. I think the point she's making is that elite athletes are trained to go-go-go, to push back from injury, to keep training always, and never to say, "STOP."
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Post by VBCOACH on Apr 12, 2015 14:26:14 GMT -5
Actually, I heard (here on volleytalk, I think) that she DID want to play through it last year. However, it's not her decision. Just like in the NFL, if you're concussed, you don't get to decide if you're going back in the game or not. YOU'RE OUT! I think the point she's making is that elite athletes are trained to go-go-go, to push back from injury, to keep training always, and never to say, "STOP." Right. That's why coaches are in charge. Experienced coaches, along with the team Doctors, should have easily recognized that she needed more rest.
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Post by trollhunter on Apr 12, 2015 15:32:19 GMT -5
I think the point she's making is that elite athletes are trained to go-go-go, to push back from injury, to keep training always, and never to say, "STOP." Right. That's why coaches are in charge. Experienced coaches, along with the team Doctors, should have easily recognized that she needed more rest. Doctors (team and personal), along with athletic trainers are in charge of medical opinions, NOT coaches. Unless you know that a coach went against medical advice or players preference - you are just trolling.
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Post by VBCOACH on Apr 12, 2015 17:10:58 GMT -5
Right. That's why coaches are in charge. Experienced coaches, along with the team Doctors, should have easily recognized that she needed more rest. Doctors (team and personal), along with athletic trainers are in charge of medical opinions, NOT coaches. Unless you know that a coach went against medical advice or players preference - you are just trolling. Coaches are in charge of PLAYING decisions. Doctors cannot MAKE a coach play someone. Doctors opinions are just one of many factors coaches should use in making their decisions. Ebony was clearly hurting. She was in pain, she couldn't jump well, her game was off. Why take the chance of delaying her recovery or reinjuring herself? Why didn't Mick simply rest her (like Russ Rose waited for Washington) for 1/3 or 1/2 of the season to see how she was coning along? Like Washington, Ebony might have been healthy for the last part of the season. If not, Mick could have made the decision to redshirt her then. Or, if she recovered too late in the season, he could have redshirted her to save a year of eligibility.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Apr 12, 2015 17:16:24 GMT -5
Doctors (team and personal), along with athletic trainers are in charge of medical opinions, NOT coaches. Unless you know that a coach went against medical advice or players preference - you are just trolling. Coaches are in charge of PLAYING decisions. Doctors cannot MAKE a coach play someone. Doctors opinions are just one of many factors coaches should use in making their decisions. Ebony was clearly hurting. She was in pain, she couldn't jump well, her game was off. Why take the chance of delaying her recovery or reinjuring herself? Why didn't Mick simply rest her (like Russ Rose waited for Washington) for 1/3 or 1/2 of the season to see how she was coning along? Like Washington, Ebony might have been healthy for the last part of the season. If not, Mick could have made the decision to redshirt her then. Or, if she recovered too late in the season, he could have redshirted her to save a year of eligibility. Was Washington healthy for the last part of the season?
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Post by VBCOACH on Apr 12, 2015 17:18:43 GMT -5
Coaches are in charge of PLAYING decisions. Doctors cannot MAKE a coach play someone. Doctors opinions are just one of many factors coaches should use in making their decisions. Ebony was clearly hurting. She was in pain, she couldn't jump well, her game was off. Why take the chance of delaying her recovery or reinjuring herself? Why didn't Mick simply rest her (like Russ Rose waited for Washington) for 1/3 or 1/2 of the season to see how she was coning along? Like Washington, Ebony might have been healthy for the last part of the season. If not, Mick could have made the decision to redshirt her then. Or, if she recovered too late in the season, he could have redshirted her to save a year of eligibility. Was Washington healthy for the last part of the season? She played and put up great numbers. However, she didn't play in enough matches to qualify for Freshman Of The Year Honors. Her numbers were good enough to make her a contender.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Apr 12, 2015 17:22:37 GMT -5
Was Washington healthy for the last part of the season? She played and put up great numbers. However, she didn't play in enough matches to qualify for Freshman Of The Year Honors. Her numbers were good enough to make her a contender. That's not what the question was. Was she 100% in the last week of the regular season and the post-season?
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Post by VBCOACH on Apr 12, 2015 17:28:55 GMT -5
She played and put up great numbers. However, she didn't play in enough matches to qualify for Freshman Of The Year Honors. Her numbers were good enough to make her a contender. That's not what the question was. Was she 100% in the last week of the regular season and the post-season? I don't know. I've never heard anything to the contrary. I guess I just trust Russ to never do anything to compromise the health of his players. However, she certainly PLAYED like she was healthy. Ebony didn't.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Apr 12, 2015 17:37:32 GMT -5
That's not what the question was. Was she 100% in the last week of the regular season and the post-season? I don't know. I've never heard anything to the contrary. I guess I just trust Russ to never do anything to compromise the health of his players. However, she certainly PLAYED like she was healthy. Ebony didn't. Washington certainly looked a little gimpy in a few matches there toward the end (Nebraska, in particular). She was still in a big brace as well. I just thought your examples of Washington and Prieto (was Russ actually losing a rotation player there?) were interesting choices, and also that the decision is not so cut and dried as you're making it out to be. I mean, Elliot stated that Dalton wasn't healthy enough to play a full match and now needs her 7 zillionth surgery - and he still played her every day.
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Post by trollhunter on Apr 12, 2015 18:43:49 GMT -5
Coaches are in charge of PLAYING decisions. Doctors cannot MAKE a coach play someone. Doctors opinions are just one of many factors coaches should use in making their decisions. Ebony was clearly hurting. She was in pain, she couldn't jump well, her game was off. Why take the chance of delaying her recovery or reinjuring herself? Why didn't Mick simply rest her (like Russ Rose waited for Washington) for 1/3 or 1/2 of the season to see how she was coning along? Like Washington, Ebony might have been healthy for the last part of the season. If not, Mick could have made the decision to redshirt her then. Or, if she recovered too late in the season, he could have redshirted her to save a year of eligibility. Was Washington healthy for the last part of the season? Doctors and athletic trainers make PLAYING DECISIONS (and practice decisions) BEFORE a coach gets to make theirs. If the doctor and trainers don't clear a player they won't play anywhere. Period. Most likely she was cleared to participate "as tolerated", leaving it UP TO THE PLAYER. If you think that coaches don't consult the doctors or trainers before making play/practice/training decisions you are sadly mistaken. Why this wild speculation about what "might" have happened, if this, or might have done that? Do you have some personal knowledge of wrong doing by a doctor, trainer, or coach there. Or just throwing out random possibilities to bash the coach? Do you know what was discussed between player, doctor, trainers, coaches? IF you look closely at the article, it appears she was misdiagnosed at one point. Why not bash the doctors/trainers?
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