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Post by genovese90210 on Jul 1, 2015 19:46:10 GMT -5
USJNC: 17/18O Critical Analysis
I’ve seen close to 20 matches in the 17 and 18 Open divisions and have taken the following away from my observations.
1. Setting at these levels is underdeveloped. I think coaches married to playing faster concept is the main culprit; the premium appears to be on speed and not on accuracy and decision making. The lack of accuracy in most cases was influenced by poor recognition of ball flight resulting in poor body positioning under the ball. While I saw 2-3 very athletic players playing the role of setter I saw very few "setters". Of the top clubs known for developing setters how many setters from these programs have made an impact on the national team level?
2. The top teams are using their top attackers to play the opposite position, unfortunately the lack of accuracy to zone 2 these attackers are not able to develop the needed line attack and are easily are either defended and/or blocked. If one of the goals of setting is to set players open using space created by speed and accuracy many of the setters are deficient in this area.
3. Middle players must learn to have 2-3 different ways to get of the net in transition. Transition attacking my middles in front of the setter is very limited because many middles are coming off at an angle when in some situations they need to be moving straight back in a line. There were a number of collisions between the setters and middles which in some cases affected the accuracy of the set to the attackers. There were a greater number of situations when the middles were simply getting in the way or struggling to find ways to get out of the way of the setter. I see this often also in American college volleyball. Moving at an angle in many cases caused hesitation from the pipe hitters.
4. Passing has been performed at a low level; slightly off-topic I started to think about where all of the top outside hitting prospects went to college over the past 10 or so seasons and how many of them ended up becoming opposites at the national team or professional levels. I don’t think that these players are incapable but believed the lack of organization in the passing system has created very insecure passers. Hence the reason many are substituted out at the next level.
5. Strategic awareness: on several occasions I saw a number off similar sequences in which the outside hitter tipped to the opposing teams outside hitter; the ball was defended off the net but the player went to the floor and was unable to be set. The transitioning team setter was in the backrow. The Middle and RS player of the attacking team instead of moving to block and prepare for defense against a fairly obvious Pipe or RS transition attack put all their attention on the defender/outside hitter that was on the floor and the middle was late to close on a higher backset. The discussion in many of these timeouts appeared to be about closing the block; it should have been about there only being on the number of available attackers.
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Post by azvb on Jul 1, 2015 21:17:21 GMT -5
Did you see anything you liked?
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Post by joetrinsey on Jul 2, 2015 0:22:46 GMT -5
Ah, the annual tradition of volleyazzuro creating a new alias!
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Post by vbnerd on Jul 2, 2015 0:55:51 GMT -5
USJNC: 17/18O Critical Analysis
I’ve seen close to 20 matches in the 17 and 18 Open divisions and have taken the following away from my observations.
1. Setting at these levels is underdeveloped. I think coaches married to playing faster concept is the main culprit; the premium appears to be on speed and not on accuracy and decision making. The lack of accuracy in most cases was influenced by poor recognition of ball flight resulting in poor body positioning under the ball. While I saw 2-3 very athletic players playing the role of setter I saw very few "setters". Of the top clubs known for developing setters how many setters from these programs have made an impact on the national team level?
Setters who have been on the roster at major events since 2000 Alisha Glass - Penn State - F.A.R. Out Volleyball - Leyland (Mi) HS (she was a hitter in HS I beleive) Courtney Thompson - Washington - Kent Juniors - Kentlake (Wa) HS Lindsey Berg - Minnesota - Asics Rainbows - Punahou (Hi) HS Lindsey Hunter - Missouri - Nebraska Juniors? - Papillion La Vista (Ne) HS Charlene Johnson - BYU - Nevada Gold - Pleasant Grove (Ut) HS Robin Ah Mow - Hawaii - Club? (til '92) - McKinley HS Honolulu Berg, Johnson and Ah Mow would have finished their club career before the turn of the century which seems too long ago to really factor into this discussion. Glass and Thompson's bios make no mention of playing in the JO/GJNC - did either of their teams make it to 17 or 18 open? Thompson must have with Stevie Mussie, right? Nellie Spicer was the 2005 MOP of 18 Open and had the ball in hand for 2010 Montreaux event, which might be the largest contribution by the class of setter you are talking about. So yeah, most of the setters at 17 and 18 open will not make contributions to the national teams. |
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Post by alarmclock on Jul 2, 2015 1:24:22 GMT -5
Well, the author definitely got the "critical" part of the critical analysis down pat.
To me, it reads like a elaborate troll post, written by someone creative and with way too much time on their hands.
Also, if you read #5 through carefully it makes no sense. |
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Post by bkedane on Jul 2, 2015 4:17:42 GMT -5
USJNC: 17/18O Critical Analysis
I’ve seen close to 20 matches in the 17 and 18 Open divisions and have taken the following away from my observations.
1. Setting at these levels is underdeveloped. I think coaches married to playing faster concept is the main culprit; the premium appears to be on speed and not on accuracy and decision making. The lack of accuracy in most cases was influenced by poor recognition of ball flight resulting in poor body positioning under the ball. While I saw 2-3 very athletic players playing the role of setter I saw very few "setters". Of the top clubs known for developing setters how many setters from these programs have made an impact on the national team level?
Setters who have been on the roster at major events since 2000 Alisha Glass - Penn State - F.A.R. Out Volleyball - Leyland (Mi) HS (she was a hitter in HS I beleive) Courtney Thompson - Washington - Kent Juniors - Kentlake (Wa) HS Lindsey Berg - Minnesota - Asics Rainbows - Punahou (Hi) HS Lindsey Hunter - Missouri - Nebraska Juniors? - Papillion La Vista (Ne) HS Charlene Johnson - BYU - Nevada Gold - Pleasant Grove (Ut) HS Robin Ah Mow - Hawaii - Club? (til '92) - McKinley HS Honolulu Berg, Johnson and Ah Mow would have finished their club career before the turn of the century which seems too long ago to really factor into this discussion. Glass and Thompson's bios make no mention of playing in the JO/GJNC - did either of their teams make it to 17 or 18 open? Thompson must have with Stevie Mussie, right? Nellie Spicer was the 2005 MOP of 18 Open and had the ball in hand for 2010 Montreaux event, which might be the largest contribution by the class of setter you are talking about. So yeah, most of the setters at 17 and 18 open will not make contributions to the national teams. You are correct and the original "criticism" is very odd. Almost no setters make contributions to the national team. It's no surprise that almost no setters from a particular club make such contributions. It's expected. |
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Post by vbnerd on Jul 2, 2015 9:10:39 GMT -5
Well, the author definitely got the "critical" part of the critical analysis down pat.
To me, it reads like a elaborate troll post, written by someone creative and with way too much time on their hands.
Also, if you read #5 through carefully it makes no sense. I get what he's saying in #5. Part of the purpose of certain shots is to eliminate your opponents options. I think kids get that if the setter digs the ball, and libero is bumpsetting, then you can ignore the middle for the most part, and in that same train of thought, when the OH is sitting on the ground, you don't need to block her - you now have 3 blockers vs 2 front row hitters and can block/defend more aggressively. I agree with this, but I think this is a product of most teams only having 4-5 hours a week of real training time, and most of these teams are physically dominant over much of their schedule so they don't need to get into details like these to get here. |
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Post by pepperbrooks on Jul 2, 2015 10:19:56 GMT -5
Here's the thing: I think most big clubs spend time training and working on the club's system as opposed to strategy, which makes sense when strengthening your brand as an entire club. The clubs that have less pure athletic talent tend to focus more on how to win, and lose some of the technical training that can smooth out wrinkles in their play.
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Post by alarmclock on Jul 2, 2015 11:12:20 GMT -5
Every team starts their block and defense in base position. Bae position doesn't change just because someone on the other team falls down.
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Post by n00b on Jul 2, 2015 17:07:39 GMT -5
USJNC: 17/18O Critical Analysis
I’ve seen close to 20 matches in the 17 and 18 Open divisions and have taken the following away from my observations.
2. The top teams are using their top attackers to play the opposite position, unfortunately the lack of accuracy to zone 2 these attackers are not able to develop the needed line attack and are easily are either defended and/or blocked. If one of the goals of setting is to set players open using space created by speed and accuracy many of the setters are deficient in this area.
I didn't see this much at all. Fitzmorris and Invasion 17s was one of the very few teams to have their best attacker on the right. I'm not saying teams shouldn't be putting their best attacker over there, I just don't see it happen very often at the junior level... |
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Post by junior1 on Jul 2, 2015 18:58:12 GMT -5
Nice to read a critique once in a while. Unfortunately, unless our kids get an opportunity to play internationally, they only know what they see and play to the level of known play. This isn't an unknown, our juniors could be playing to a much higher level, as could our collegiates. It is what we've heard from our National programs for decades.
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Post by truthandjustice on Jul 2, 2015 19:10:06 GMT -5
Every team starts their block and defense in base position. Bae position doesn't change just because someone on the other team falls down. Yes it does. |
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Post by pepperbrooks on Jul 2, 2015 19:31:03 GMT -5
Nice to read a critique once in a while. Unfortunately, unless our kids get an opportunity to play internationally, they only know what they see and play to the level of known play. This isn't an unknown, our juniors could be playing to a much higher level, as could our collegiates. It is what we've heard from our National programs for decades. Yeah, don't really care what the national programs think. Club volleyball is not about them. And if it is, maybe they should take more interest other than throwing together JOs and HP moneymakers. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 22:32:57 GMT -5
i'm not tracking with point #3 at all.
if your middle transitions straight back rather than at an angle toward the oh, wouldn't that increase the chances she will be closer to the setter and thus potentially get in the setter's way; and wouldn't it also increase the chances of the pipe hitter hesitating, as the mh would be directly in front of her instead of off to the left side a bit?
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Post by genovese90210 on Jul 4, 2015 14:03:06 GMT -5
My point about the setters is this. If I had to select the top 3 junior clubs training setters I would say Front Range, SPRI, and Mizuno Long Beach have done the best job over the past 20 seasons. I don’t want to make this a debate about who trains setters better but relative to the number of great junior setters they have produced only Spicer has had any significant contribution to the national senior team.
Yes, I enjoyed a number of things. I thought Front Range was the most organized team with arguably the best setter. The RS/S for T-Street reminded me of a more physical Ashley Engle; very talented. Coast I thought the most balanced team offensively and there were a few sequences they put together that was very high level physical volleyball.
My argument about teaching middles different ways to get off the nest is not an exclusively “junior” problem; watch how many times even after a high ball situation that middles is either getting in the way of the setter and the pipe hitter. Junior coaches in my opinion should teach their middles to move straight back when called for, at an angle when needed; most of this appeared to be the result of them losing sight of the ball as it’s defended. The other is the location (starting point) and speed of the backrow setter moving to the net. In a rotation defensive situation the middle should move straight back in most cases because the distance is shorter for the setter to get to the net. And the higher
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