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Post by msgt70a on Oct 6, 2015 16:04:32 GMT -5
All I can say is wow. I am sorry this happened. As a parent of a player on the team, fans say critical things all the time. Fans criticize both volleyball and non volleyball attributes about the players. Parents learn to have tough skin. We laugh at our get togethers about all the things people say about our daughters. It is just part of the game and believe that all the parents know that there is no malice intended by the fans. Mostly we think it is great that random people care enough to come to the games and be critical. The parents are together a lot and talk all things volleyball. No one has said anything about the situation you mentioned. But now, i will ask around. Again, sorry that this happened. Also, did you say you had to pay for tickets to the match? Because if you did, you got ripped off. They don't charge admission. touchline was kind enough to share some specifics with me via private message. As I indicated to touchline via private message, I contacted all the players' parents in attendance at the match in question and no one knows anything about the situation. Sorry I cannot be more helpful.
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Post by kokyu on Oct 6, 2015 17:06:55 GMT -5
All I can say is wow. I am sorry this happened. As a parent of a player on the team, fans say critical things all the time. Fans criticize both volleyball and non volleyball attributes about the players. Parents learn to have tough skin. We laugh at our get togethers about all the things people say about our daughters. It is just part of the game and believe that all the parents know that there is no malice intended by the fans. Mostly we think it is great that random people care enough to come to the games and be critical. The parents are together a lot and talk all things volleyball. No one has said anything about the situation you mentioned. But now, i will ask around. Again, sorry that this happened. Also, did you say you had to pay for tickets to the match? Because if you did, you got ripped off. They don't charge admission. touchline was kind enough to share some specifics with me via private message. As I indicated to touchline via private message, I contacted all the players' parents in attendance at the match in question and no one knows anything about the situation. Sorry I cannot be more helpful. A racist parent is probably smart enough to lie about it.
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Post by kukae on Oct 6, 2015 17:38:43 GMT -5
The thing that sounds the oddest to me is that he was never confronted DURING the supposed infraction. If he was loitering during a time when he should have left, the event security could easily have told him so and asked him to leave. If he refused, then I could see him being issued some violation. But if he was never asked to leave (and there are other people there), how is he supposed to know that he is loitering? I mean, if there were event security there, and no one confronted him, then how could his behavior be interpreted as "suspicious loitering". If his behavior is suspicious (which to me means posing a possible threat), then the proper job of security is to IMMEDIATELY address the behavior, not wait till the person is leaving and the behavior is finished.
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Post by soggydawg on Oct 6, 2015 18:17:46 GMT -5
We can speculate all day about what might have actually happened, but the most curious content in this thread is "I was bit vocal on this day regarding some slight criticism of one of the OH's play". That represents a broad range. The fact that it caused "several parents" to turn around in a noisy environment and resulted in the sanctions we are discussing here suggests to me the vocal criticism went beyond acceptable limits. If the guy were merely a jerk (no lack of those at sporting events) it may have raised a few eyebrows, but would be quickly forgotten. The fact that the University responded by banning the OP from all athletic events indicates a perceived threat. Please don't jump to the conclusion that the actions were the result of appearance rather than behavior.
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Post by volleycoach75 on Oct 6, 2015 18:36:43 GMT -5
We can speculate all day about what might have actually happened, but the most curious content in this thread is "I was bit vocal on this day regarding some slight criticism of one of the OH's play". That represents a broad range. The fact that it caused "several parents" to turn around in a noisy environment and resulted in the sanctions we are discussing here suggests to me the vocal criticism went beyond acceptable limits. If the guy were merely a jerk (no lack of those at sporting events) it may have raised a few eyebrows, but would be quickly forgotten. The fact that the University responded by banning the OP from all athletic events indicates a perceived threat. Please don't jump to the conclusion that the actions were the result of appearance rather than behavior. The problem with this idea is that if it were behavior event management would have removed him when the behavior occurred not after the match in the parking lot. I've worked enough college game day/event management to know that much. No way you can convince me that he was banned based solely on his comments, however loud or obnoxious they could have been. Let's say it was him hanging around after the game ... if he were looking suspicious lingering in the stands why not tell him then he is loitering?
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Post by Not Me on Oct 6, 2015 19:10:19 GMT -5
More and more, this is looking like he was guilty of "standing while looking middle-eastern". We want people to be vigilant and report anything or anyone they believe to be "suspicious", but that doesn't mean that a quasi-public organization such as Duke Campus Police can run roughshod over attendees' civil rights. What if it was a black person attending a public event who had been banned from campus due to "suspicious loitering"? What if a gay couple? More and more of what? We haven't gotten any actual facts.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 19:29:45 GMT -5
It really depends what was said. I have heard some really inappropriate remarks said about my sister from "fans" and about the women that play with her and sometimes a harsh look or even a "really? do you think some of the players relatives may be here?" do not shut the people up. I have complained about someone before after telling them they were rude and being told to #%*( off when they were constantly talking about a relative of the person sitting next to me. Some people think it is a compliment to comment on how "hot" a player is and most of them do not know how to lower their voices. I am not saying this is the case, but that is why I asked the questions I asked (that went unanswered).
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 6, 2015 19:31:30 GMT -5
touchline was kind enough to share some specifics with me via private message. As I indicated to touchline via private message, I contacted all the players' parents in attendance at the match in question and no one knows anything about the situation. Sorry I cannot be more helpful. A racist parent is probably smart enough to lie about it. Look, before anyone starts speculating about racist parents, did the school ever say that it was a parent who complained that the guy was hanging around? And did anyone ever say anything about his comments during the match? According to the original post, the actual complain was that "some person" (not necessarily a parent) felt uncomfortable about him hanging around there. No one ever said anything about comments during the match, so that sounds like it's an irrelevant distraction.
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Post by dd2000 on Oct 6, 2015 19:38:12 GMT -5
It is impossible to even comment on this situation. We have heard from one person only, and so have only his perspective. The parent that commented above knows nothing of the incident. We have no idea what is in the police report. Hard for me to believe this garnered six pages on this site.
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Post by sportsfun on Oct 6, 2015 19:42:29 GMT -5
It's amazing that you people automatically assume racism and discrimination. You have no idea what happened or what this person actually did. Take away his statement about his ethnicity, and I bet your opinion changes quickly. By his own admission he was sitting in the stands heckling a player. Then after the match he is standing in the stands by him self just looking around at the players and their families. How would you react if you were a parent and your daughter showed up after the match and complain about a guy in the stands. If the players feel uncomfortable about a spectator based on what they said what should be done? I'm not saying this is what happened, but that has as much chance a of being accurate as your racial bias assumption. The only fact we know is that we are not given all the facts. But in the Internet world today people love to jump to conclusions without the facts. His ethnicity is an important factor. Take even 10 minutes to Google studies conducted post 9/11 by social justice organizations of males of South Asian and Middle Eastern descent harassed and unjustly profiled by all types of law enforcement. To ignore that piece of the story would be naïve. It does not automatically mean discrimination occurred but he represents a group of people who are often unjustly treated. The behavior often goes unquestioned and is accompanied with an arrogant, we don't have to explain ourselves mentality. I will await the results of their investigation but the utter lack of substantiating details seems suspiciously similar to a myriad of other cases of baseless discrimination towards other male Middle Eastern citizens in this country.
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Post by oldman on Oct 6, 2015 19:46:50 GMT -5
It is impossible to even comment on this situation. We have heard from one person only, and so have only his perspective. The parent that commented above knows nothing of the incident. We have no idea what is in the police report. Hard for me to believe this garnered six pages on this site. And mostly what was said falls under playing the victim card. This is common practice today.
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Post by tomclen on Oct 6, 2015 19:47:45 GMT -5
There are two points in the original post that stand out to me: It seems odd that he was vocal enough to realize parents did 'glance over' at him. But didn't think that was a big deal. I think most people might feel somewhere between sheepish and mortified if their yelling drew a 'glance' from parents. Why would you even think of sending a letter to the coaching staff? If he had an issue with security at a Duke basketball game would he send a letter to Mike Krzyzewski? Duke is a huge organization with necessary layers of bureaucracy and security and standard protocol. Of course they sent a 'stock response of please correspond with the police." Sending letters to the coaching staff and facilities director probably just raises more red flags about someone's behavior. (This whole thread, by the way, is probably borderline 'off the net.") If I were coaching a school team I definitely would like to be informed if fans are getting banned for not being white. First off, your premise is inflammatory. No one knows if anyone was banned for 'not being white.' Secondly, it's obvious you don't understand how major organizations operate. A head coach even remotely interjecting himself in a matter like this would likely be reprimanded, suspended or perhaps terminated. Just look up Lefty Drisell and Herman Veal. This incident was reported to a college police agency and they handled it. A coach getting involved would only be asking for trouble, and, frankly, it would prove he probably wasn't a very good manager. No one knows the details of what happened or why. The school is likely to never address this. The OP is being somewhat vague. Why doesn't tell us exactly what he yelled at the player? Also, in addition to papering the college with letters to multiple parties, why sign up on a volleyball message board and make this a public attack on the school? Also why initially keep the schools name out of it, but then with the slightest prodding reveal the school and post correspondence from the school. Normally, I'm the first to side with almost any individual against the power structure and police. And maybe, with more facts, I'd feel differently. But for me, for now, this just doesn't pass the smell test.
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Post by sportsfun on Oct 6, 2015 19:57:28 GMT -5
Safety is a big thing to colleges these days. I would guess the school is motivated by trying to ensure the safety of its players. Somebody saw a safety risk, so the school acted. The lawyers get involved when they see something that could be liability for them. If a fan is acting out of the ordinary in way that makes players fearful, they are going to act. If you were an employee of the university you would have due process rights, but as a buyer of tickets I'm not sure you do -- probably the terms of the ticket purchase give them blanket rights to ban you if they see fit. Yes you could probably sue them and spend $10,000, but it is not at all a sure thing that you would win -- as long as they maintain that they were acting reasonably to ensure the safety of their players. Ironically it becomes more dangerous for all of us if we accept that it's acceptable for a person to receive a ticket from police and be banned from events because a small group of people (it could have been as small as the player's own family) does not like the critique a fan gives while in the stands and thinks he stood around a court too long after a match. If they are unable to substantiate specific, problematic behavior and they need to lift the ban and get rid of any record of that ticket. It all seems harmless until it's you or your loved one and if people turn a blind eye to these situations it will be you or your loved one some day.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 20:09:49 GMT -5
Safety is a big thing to colleges these days. I would guess the school is motivated by trying to ensure the safety of its players. Somebody saw a safety risk, so the school acted. The lawyers get involved when they see something that could be liability for them. If a fan is acting out of the ordinary in way that makes players fearful, they are going to act. If you were an employee of the university you would have due process rights, but as a buyer of tickets I'm not sure you do -- probably the terms of the ticket purchase give them blanket rights to ban you if they see fit. Yes you could probably sue them and spend $10,000, but it is not at all a sure thing that you would win -- as long as they maintain that they were acting reasonably to ensure the safety of their players. Ironically it becomes more dangerous for all of us if we accept that it's acceptable for a person to receive a ticket from police and be banned from events because a small group of people (it could have been as small as the player's own family) does not like the critique a fan gives while in the stands and thinks he stood around a court too long after a match. If they are unable to substantiate specific, problematic behavior and they need to lift the ban and get rid of any record of that ticket. It all seems harmless until it's you or your loved one and if people turn a blind eye to these situations it will be you or your loved one some day. or, an alternate theory would be: a spectator consistently focused on one woman playing and continually commented on her ability and perhaps her appearance (we do not know). some of that women's friends/family or just people who found the comments so inappropriate that they turned several times to glare at him (and perhaps tell him) the same loudly critical (and perhaps inappropriate) man is seen hanging around by himself looking at players (perhaps as one of the few people left). people who heard his behavior earlier put together the fact that he is not related to either teams players yet is still "looking around" long after the game ended. they complain to security who looks at the situation and watches the man until police arrive (and obviously agree with the people that is behavior is not appropriate) the police check his ID and find he has no reason to be there and they put weight on the testimony of the known persons and the security. they take action. I find this more credible.
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Post by touchline on Oct 6, 2015 20:27:59 GMT -5
Ironically it becomes more dangerous for all of us if we accept that it's acceptable for a person to receive a ticket from police and be banned from events because a small group of people (it could have been as small as the player's own family) does not like the critique a fan gives while in the stands and thinks he stood around a court too long after a match. If they are unable to substantiate specific, problematic behavior and they need to lift the ban and get rid of any record of that ticket. It all seems harmless until it's you or your loved one and if people turn a blind eye to these situations it will be you or your loved one some day. or, an alternate theory would be: a spectator consistently focused on one woman playing and continually commented on her ability and perhaps her appearance (we do not know). some of that women's friends/family or just people who found the comments so inappropriate that they turned several times to glare at him (and perhaps tell him) the same loudly critical (and perhaps inappropriate) man is seen hanging around by himself looking at players (perhaps as one of the few people left). people who heard his behavior earlier put together the fact that he is not related to either teams players yet is still "looking around" long after the game ended. they complain to security who looks at the situation and watches the man until police arrive (and obviously agree with the people that is behavior is not appropriate) the police check his ID and find he has no reason to be there and they put weight on the testimony of the known persons and the security. they take action. I find this more credible. I've received a lot of support on here and some positive PMs. I didn't expect everyone on here to side with me. I provided correspondence with the school to show my side and what I have from theirs. So if there is an issue with someone standing in the bleachers after the match as I was waiting to see if anyone I knew was there, if someone supposedly complains to security, Why doesn't security address the person directly and rectify the situation. Aren't they there for that?? You yourself said security watches the man! until police arrive.
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