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Post by BearClause on Oct 7, 2004 11:56:52 GMT -5
I do not know what the ground rules are there, but in other conferences media are not allowed on the playing surface... I don't think a team or conference really has a choice. The NCAA has rules for these things, and it's up to the refs to regulate them. I've seen refs instruct camera personnel to move back before. From the 2004 NCAA Rulebook Points of Emphasis: Media Equipment and Personnel
The media area has been established as within one meter of the boundary defining the playable area and a minimum of 2 meters from the court. Media is not allowed in front of the team benches or between the attack lines on the bench side of the court.Rule 1 (Facilities and Equipment), Section 1 (Playing Area), Article 1: The playing area includes the playing court and the free zone. (See Figure 1.) Playing Surface ARTICLE 1. The court and a free zone area at least 2 meters (6 ft. 6 in.) adjacent to and surrounding the court must be flat, smooth, and free of obstructions. The additional playing area, if any, must not have a change of height greater than 1.25 centimeters (½ in.). a. The recommended free zone area is 3.1 meters (10 ft.) outside the sidelines and 4.6 meters (15 ft.) beyond the end lines. b. Media equipment and personnel are restricted from the areas in front of the team benches and between the attack lines extended on the bench side of the court. In other areas, media equipment and personnel must be at least 2-meters (6 ft. 6 in.) away from the court, and within 1 meter (3 ft. 3 in.) of the boundary defining the playing area.Rule 4 (Playing Space), Section 2 (Obstacles and Obstructions), Article 4: Non-Player Interference ARTICLE 4. When an official (line judge or referee), media equipment or personnel, or spectator interferes with a legitimate effort to play the ball in the playing area, a play-over is awarded.
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comic
Sophomore
Posts: 138
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Post by comic on Oct 7, 2004 12:20:01 GMT -5
now that we have that taken care of lets talk about the other part..... The assistant coach was active for sure and stood behind the head coach on several occasions to complain about calls. But I don't think there was any intimidation going on. The assistant did talk to the down ref (I was very close to the scorers table) during game one about the line judge not backing up while the servers were on the line judge side of the court. And actually the coach was warned later in the match for talking to the line judge, but what the coach had said was "good call" and then was talking to the middle back player.....Let's not think that D1 Referees are so easily intimidated. We can think they are bad...but that is another topic I have watched college volleyball since 1997. I saw a "first last night". I witnessed a coaching staff intimidate officials last night. The amazing aspect was that most of the intimidation was done by the ASSISTANT coach during the first game. That was the "first" I witnessed last night. He was up complaining to officials several times and at a time out. He even tried to intimidate a line judge. It worked. They were behind by seven in the first game and ended up winning that game and the match. After the head coach was yellow carded, there was not one net call, nor one lift call, nor one "two touch" call against their team. The only calls made against their team were when they hit the ball out, in the net, or missed their serve. This was also the first college match I have watched where both head coaches received yellow cards. These two officials were "in over their head" in this match. The conference that assigned these officials ought to be ashame.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Oct 7, 2004 19:00:34 GMT -5
The officials in question (I know their names but will not identify them on this board, or any board for that matter.) The patches on their shirt were NOT Sun Belt patches. The patches had a yellow or gold color to them with, what looked like, a M on it. Can anyone identify what conference patch that would be? Incidentally, one of the head coaches involved in this match stated that he had never seen these officials before this match. Minnesota!!! Gorf and (R)uffda at their finest.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Oct 7, 2004 19:11:05 GMT -5
IdahoBoy, Your comment about the Sun Belt and high school officials shows your prejudice AGAIN against teams east of the Rockies that are not in the Big 12, Big 10, and Florida. AGAIN SHAME ON YOU!! Why do you have such a hard time admitting that there could be some really good teams in the Sun Belt or any other conference east of the Rockies?? It is very obvious that you are a fan of the Everley Brothers!!!!! Not prejudice at all. As soon as a team out of this league actually steps up and does some patooty-kicking, I'll be arguing right there alongside of them. I don't have a hard time admitting that there are good teams outside the "big 3" east of the rockies. Florida is good. There are three solid teams in the MWC (SMS, Wichita St., and UNI), there is the Big East (Pitt and ND), Cincinnati is in one of those conferences... let's see who else... Oh, a couple solid teams in the ACC: G-tech, Duke, and NC. Who else. Florida A&M is proven themselves more than Sun Belt teams too. If this team is as good as you say they are, then they'll win the Conference tournament, and it won't be a big deal. But if they LOST to one of the OTHER teams in that low-level of play conference, they probably don't deserve to go. The fact is, is that there are 33 at-large bids. There are 31 automatic bids of which about 10-15 of those usually are top teams, leaving a fair amount of teams that will lose quickly in the first round. Of the at-large bids, about 20 will go to the main 4 conferences, maybe 24. That leaves 27 conferences vying for about 10 spots or so. I guarantee that the wins/losses are looked at relative to the strength of their conferences among those remaining teams, which leaves the Sun Belt out quickly! I still don't get the Everley Brothers' comments.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Oct 7, 2004 19:18:21 GMT -5
You'll have to humor Idadork on this one. For some reason, he thinks that officials and officials' organizations work the same as athletes: High school athlete < College athlete < Professional/National Team athlete You're not smart enough to know what I think. Yet another knock on Mr. Lee. I bet that he would LOVE to know who you were so he could talk to you about these comments. And you're telling me you "heckle" Mr. Lee to his face?
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Post by IdahoBoy on Oct 7, 2004 19:19:28 GMT -5
Which is why I think it is a possible answer. Apparently they allow the media on the surface, and therefore they may have procedures for how to deal with them. Alternative, the media wasn't supposed to be there, such that they would be considered to be interferring with the play. In that case, it seems a replay is perfectly justified. The NCAA relaxed many rules as points of emphasis this season on allowing media very close to the court surface (1 m I think). I'll have to look this up for certain, but it's in the first few pages of this year's rulebook.
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Post by sonofbarcelonabob on Oct 7, 2004 19:20:20 GMT -5
You're not smart enough to know what I think. Yet another knock on Mr. Lee. I bet that he would LOVE to know who you were so he could talk to you about these comments. You bonehead, I've WORKEDwith Brant Lee doing Channel League matches for CIF-SS. So when I bag on his dumbass, I know what I'm talking about. Doofus.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Oct 7, 2004 19:21:21 GMT -5
Yeah, but did you have the cojones to tell it to his face?
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Post by sonofbarcelonabob on Oct 7, 2004 19:28:52 GMT -5
Yeah, but did you have the cojones to tell it to his face? I've corrected him numerous times on errors, yes. As far as him being a dumbass, he knows how I feel. Why would I have cut my own throat while I was working for the association that did all the scheduling for matches? Lee is not a good official, at any level, and everyone knows that. However, he is well connected in the pipeline. Of course, now that I no longer work in SoCal, I no longer have to worry about those things. LOL.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Oct 7, 2004 19:36:15 GMT -5
I've corrected him numerous times on errors, yes. As far as him being a dumbass, he knows how I feel. Why would I have cut my own throat while I was working for the association that did all the scheduling for matches? Lee is not a good official, at any level, and everyone knows that. However, he is well connected in the pipeline. Of course, now that I no longer work in SoCal, I no longer have to worry about those things. LOL. So, you're a nice guy to his face and come here to put him down behind his back. That's all I was looking for. Now, do me favor and re-read your comments on the "heckling" thread and tell me you're sorry.
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Post by BearClause on Oct 7, 2004 19:55:25 GMT -5
The NCAA relaxed many rules as points of emphasis this season on allowing media very close to the court surface (1 m I think). I'll have to look this up for certain, but it's in the first few pages of this year's rulebook. Uh - I already posted it. Media is allowed no more than 1m from the boundary and at least two meters from the court surface (i.e. inbounds). At Cal, they sometimes set up a handheld camera with the camera personnel sitting on an office chair right at mid-court next to the ref stand. They've also occasionally set up a microphone right under the ref stand. The mic cable is placed under one of those industrial cord covers. I would worry that someone pursuing a shanked pass **might** trip over the cover, even though it's maybe 3/4" high.
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Post by sonofbarcelonabob on Oct 7, 2004 20:32:52 GMT -5
So, you're a nice guy to his face and come here to put him down behind his back. That's all I was looking for. Now, do me favor and re-read your comments on the "heckling" thread and tell me you're sorry. Nice try, Idapoop. But heckling athletes from the stands, and keeping your mouth shut with a co-worker to maintain a harmonious working relationship are two different things. Try again.
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Post by EagleEye on Oct 8, 2004 8:59:21 GMT -5
I don't know whether or not a media person was in the way. If there was one there, the ball landed in the second row of the bleachers. There was no way the player would have been able to get the ball back in play. But I will give the official the benefit of the doubt on this play - even though this team scored two more points on their replayed serve and didn't lose the point they would have. They won this game by two points.
In regards to the intimidation, the officials were intimidated, especially the down official. I have been associated with high school sports for my entire adult life. I have been a varsity coach in four different sports(not volleyball). I was responsible for hiring and evaluating varsity officials for approximately ten years, And I was a varsity football official for a few years. These officials, in particular the down official, was intimidated. The assistant coach complained to the officials, in particular the down official, several times during the first game. And a couple of times his head coach remained seated and was not complaining. The assistant coach DID complained to the down official during an official time out (one of five they had during the first game - two official time outs and three unofficial timeout while they complained to the officials). This assistant coach complained again to the down official either at a time out of between games. This time the opposing head coach immediately joined the conversation, probably to listen and to make sure there wasn't more intimidation efforts. After the first game, the down official did not make one call against the assistant coach's team other than the obvious out or in calls. The most blatant call or lack of call occurred when the other team's OH tipped the ball into the arm-hand of a blocker. The ball went off the block at a 70 degree angle and landed out. The officials called the ball out and ruled no touch. Both officials chose to ignore the line judge who was calling a touch. This occurred in the fourth game when the score was either tied or a point difference. There was absolutely no doubt about the deflection. The first mistake these officials made was to even allow this assistant coach to be up complaining. Head coach yes assistant coach NO!. There was a volleyball official there watching the match. His first comment was there was no way the official should have allowed the assistant coach to complain to him or confront him. Yes, the coach was finally warned to stay seated but only after the opposing coach had vigorously complained about the intimidation and the "three unofficial time outs". And only after the down official then went over to converse with the up official. Yes they WERE intimidated, especially the down official!
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comic
Sophomore
Posts: 138
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Post by comic on Oct 8, 2004 11:50:51 GMT -5
having been at the same match as it seems on thsi board there were a couple of us, I find your interpretation interesting. First, there is no rule that prohibits assistant coaches from talking to the officials, in fact in many cases the assistants are more involved during matches (Miami, OH comes to mind or Iowa last year when Gonzo was on the sideline, how about Minnesota when Brian was there) and the officials gave 2 cards that night neither to the assistant so it must not have been that bad. Also, unless you were on the floor or right next to the bench how would you know why the head coach stood up to listen to the conversation? How would you know when the coaches were asking simple questions like, how many subs/timeouts are left, and when the were lodging complaints. It seemed to me that both staffs were very displeased with the officials. You are right about the touch call. But that goes on the line judge not the R2. The R2 should have been watching the net not the ball.... it really is irrelavant btw b/c the match is over. Both teams had to deal with less that perfect officiating and the road team had to deal with a crowd that was at time brutal to some of the players....
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Post by EagleEye on Oct 8, 2004 12:49:16 GMT -5
Assistant coach - to ask questions about time outs, etc, YES - to criticze or complain about calls, etc. Absolutely not!! And that is what the assistant coach was doing most of the time during the first game. Otherwise, the officials would not have told him to stay seated!!!!
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