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Post by silversurfer on Feb 10, 2016 10:07:54 GMT -5
1. Kessel coaches under 14s on a regular basis. 2. Hugh hits the ball at every camp he does, and probably many practices. 3. You don't need to hit the ball to understand the science. With high speed cameras and other resources, Broker and Knapp (1998) demonstrated the contribution of the wrist to the attack. It's minimal, 2%. 4. If you don't believe the science, do it yourself. Lock your wrist in place. Swing forward at the middle of the ball. No spin. Then swing forward, and contact the top of the ball. Spin. The direction of the arm motion, plus the location of the contact, creates the spin. You can even hit the bottom of the ball, swinging in the right direction, and make it spin forward. But not if you "snap" your wrist. 5. A tennis racket, golf club, or even a pool cue do not have wrists. Yet they make the ball spin. See #4. 6. Wrist away is your forearm turned in a direction when you swing; not a wrist snap. Try snapping your wrist to make the ball go wrist away. On second thought, don't. You might break your wrist. 7. No one is saying don't snap; they are saying, it's a bad cue, and you don't need to spend so much time teaching it when you should be working on swinging your arm faster, aligning your shoulders, and creating torque, which is where power and spin (if that's important) come from. Snapping your wrist doesn't do _anything_? Really? I don't argue power, but creating spin? Absolutely.
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Post by wayout on Feb 10, 2016 10:11:52 GMT -5
1. Kessel coaches under 14s on a regular basis. 2. Hugh hits the ball at every camp he does, and probably many practices. 3. You don't need to hit the ball to understand the science. With high speed cameras and other resources, Broker and Knapp (1998) demonstrated the contribution of the wrist to the attack. It's minimal, 2%. 4. If you don't believe the science, do it yourself. Lock your wrist in place. Swing forward at the middle of the ball. No spin. Then swing forward, and contact the top of the ball. Spin. The direction of the arm motion, plus the location of the contact, creates the spin. You can even hit the bottom of the ball, swinging in the right direction, and make it spin forward. But not if you "snap" your wrist. 5. A tennis racket, golf club, or even a pool cue do not have wrists. Yet they make the ball spin. See #4. 6. Wrist away is your forearm turned in a direction when you swing; not a wrist snap. Try snapping your wrist to make the ball go wrist away. On second thought, don't. You might break your wrist. 7. No one is saying don't snap; they are saying, it's a bad cue, and you don't need to spend so much time teaching it when you should be working on swinging your arm faster, aligning your shoulders, and creating torque, which is where power and spin (if that's important) come from. Snapping your wrist doesn't do _anything_? Really? I don't argue power, but creating spin? Absolutely. You can create any kind of spin on the ball with locked, straight wrist that never breaks. Beejels post is a perfect breakdown of wrist snap. The most important being #7. If you believe in wrist snap that's ok, just stop spending hours teaching it to your kids.
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Post by silversurfer on Feb 10, 2016 10:27:31 GMT -5
Snapping your wrist doesn't do _anything_? Really? I don't argue power, but creating spin? Absolutely. You can create any kind of spin on the ball with locked, straight wrist that never breaks. Beejels post is a perfect breakdown of wrist snap. The most important being #7. If you believe in wrist snap that's ok, just stop spending hours teaching it to your kids. I'd like a video of someone creating a lot of topspin with a locked wrist. Internet, GO.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 10:59:25 GMT -5
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Post by VolleyTX on Feb 10, 2016 11:07:13 GMT -5
Beating the ball up against a wall while practicing a wrist snap was one of the best exercises I could have done that taught me several things:
1. Forcing myself to get on top of the ball with my hand so that I could hit DOWN into the court. 2. Giving me a feel for the ball. Which eventually led to fast development of all kinds of crafty shots discussed in earlier posts. 3. Forcing me to not drop my shoulder which incrementally raised my contact point.
I'm not saying that a wrist snap is imperative to a great attack, but it is an imperative skill for a well rounded attacker. I play with a very athletic middle who can block like no bodies business, but he is a rather weak attacker. He is way above the net, but doesn't have the feel for hitting the ball down into the court or finishing his follow through. If I knew him better, I would plead with him to practice beating a ball against the wall using a wrist snap.
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Wrist snap
Feb 10, 2016 11:16:33 GMT -5
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Post by utoolity on Feb 10, 2016 11:16:33 GMT -5
It is very useful from the service line when using a jump top or a hybrid but you need hours and years in the gym to develop both of those. You also need to be more athletic than the average player to make good use of placing the ball. It's an aid but not something you can rely on- especially out of system vs a good defensive team.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 11:19:09 GMT -5
I'm not saying that a wrist snap is imperative to a great attack, but it is an imperative skill for a well rounded attacker. I play with a very athletic middle who can block like no bodies business, but he is a rather weak attacker. He is way above the net, but doesn't have the feel for hitting the ball down into the court or finishing his follow through. If I knew him better, I would plead with him to practice beating a ball against the wall using a wrist snap. It's been my experience that anything involving beating a ball and a wall is just the thing to keep a middle amused. For hours. A piece of string also works.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 11:21:02 GMT -5
By the way, VCT is calling Volley Talk posters morons. More or less, with an emphasis on More.
Less Ron is definitely in order here, but geez. How's the view from that high horse, VCT?
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Post by wayout on Feb 10, 2016 11:27:43 GMT -5
If my team practices hitting balls from a setter for 2 hours, and your team practices hitting a ball at a wall for 1 hour and hitting off a setter for 1 hour, I would argue that my team will be better hitters after a month of practices. The benefit of hitting a ball against a wall drastically falls off with every minute you do it. If you are hitting it at the wall to "get the feel" of the ball, you can stop after 5 minutes. If you haven't learned the feel by then you probably won't. It's physics. If I hit it at this angle with this force, I will get a certain result. It shouldn't take more then a few minutes to learn that lesson.
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Wrist snap
Feb 10, 2016 11:30:29 GMT -5
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Post by sevb on Feb 10, 2016 11:30:29 GMT -5
By the way, VCT is calling Volley Talk posters morons. More or less, with an emphasis on More. Less Ron is definitely in order here, but geez. How's the view from that high horse, VCT? World Star.... FIIIGHT!
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Post by cardinalvolleyball on Feb 10, 2016 11:35:45 GMT -5
what is your real question?
Is hitting a ball against the wall improving you. Yes, but not as much as hitting the net.
Is learning how to snap your wrist imperative to becoming a better volleyball player? Yes! It's all about angles and physics. Even if you put clay stanley on a girls net the angle he is hitting is determined by the angle of his hand on contact and that is controlled by the wrist.
Real question should be what are the best ways to teach hitters to control their hits.
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Post by wayout on Feb 10, 2016 11:43:34 GMT -5
what is your real question? Is hitting a ball against the wall improving you. Yes, but not as much as hitting the net. Is learning how to snap your wrist imperative to becoming a better volleyball player? Yes! It's all about angles and physics. Even if you put clay stanley on a girls net the angle he is hitting is determined by the angle of his hand on contact and that is controlled by the wrist. Real question should be what are the best ways to teach hitters to control their hits. The angle your hand contacts the ball is very important. The amount of time your hand is contacting the ball is less than half a second. No one is physically capable of snapping their wrist over the ball in that amount of time. If your hand starts at that angle and never moves during your approach you will get the same result as "snapping". That is the point. Wrist snap is a myth. If your hand is in the correct position to hit the ball it has nothing do with your wrist movement (because you can't move your wrist fast enough to make a difference).
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Post by Hawk Attack on Feb 10, 2016 11:45:08 GMT -5
The nice thing about telling a kid "snap your wrist" is that it's an easy cue, they understand it, and typically they're going to give the result you want on next contact.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 12:29:56 GMT -5
We are not talking about the angle of the hand. We are talking about a wrist snap. This is NOT the same thing. I think it is analogous with a golf pro telling a trunk slammer to end his swing with his belt buckle in the direction he is aiming. The belt buckle has nothing to do with the flight of the ball. Snapping the wrist ensures the your hand had the most surface area possible at the point of contact and pushes you toward being on the top of the ball.
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Post by vbman100 on Feb 10, 2016 12:51:28 GMT -5
The nice thing about telling a kid "snap your wrist" is that it's an easy cue, they understand it, and typically they're going to give the result you want on next contact. True. It is especially good when they hit one out of bounds, then snap the next one and hit it in the net. And the coaches and parents favorite - "Talk" or "Communicate". That one is fun when the setter was supposed to get it but he/she didn't. I also love "call the ball". What do you want me to call it? Wilson, Tachikara, Molten, Bob? I guess it makes them feel like they are being helpful.
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