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Post by vbman100 on Feb 10, 2016 13:01:59 GMT -5
Try this: Get on one knee at the 3m/10 ft line. Toss a ball up and hit with no snap. Try to make contact on all different parts of the ball - under, on top, on the side, etc. Swing your arm as fast as you can, using no snap of the wrist. Do it over and over. Maybe 50 times. How many balls go in the court, in the net, out of bounds?
Now do the same thing, but snap your wrist. Hit on all different parts of the ball. Snap sideways, over the top, etc. How many go in the court, in the net, out of bounds?
Do you want placement or speed as your top priority? You can place the ball with no snap, but how fast will it go?
If you have a speed gun, hit a "floater" and see the top speed you can get. Then try to hit a "topspin". What speed can you get? Does the difference matter in the game of volleyball? Why is there a difference in speeds?
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Post by silversurfer on Feb 10, 2016 13:36:45 GMT -5
For the millionth time, the dress is GOLD.
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Post by VolleyTX on Feb 10, 2016 14:21:53 GMT -5
Beating the ball up against a wall while practicing a wrist snap was one of the best exercises I could have done that taught me several things: 1. Forcing myself to get on top of the ball with my hand so that I could hit DOWN into the court. 2. Giving me a feel for the ball. Which eventually led to fast development of all kinds of crafty shots discussed in earlier posts. 3. Forcing me to not drop my shoulder which incrementally raised my contact point. I'm not saying that a wrist snap is imperative to a great attack, but it is an imperative skill for a well rounded attacker. I play with a very athletic middle who can block like no bodies business, but he is a rather weak attacker. He is way above the net, but doesn't have the feel for hitting the ball down into the court or finishing his follow through. If I knew him better, I would plead with him to practice beating a ball against the wall using a wrist snap. Do you feel if you hit the same amount of balls over a net that you would have improved quicker? No. And let me be clear, I'm not talking about hitting the ball for 20 minutes against the wall. I'm talking about a few minutes of banging the ball against the wall. Even today, I feel like a few minutes of it helps me get the feel of the ball before I play.... and helps focus my eye hand coordination. Also, those few minutes you can really focus on technique (i.e. keeping the ball in front of you, keep your shoulder high, etc.) Taking swing on the net with a setter, while critically important, there are so many more thing to focus on (ball height, set speed, tightness to the net, etc.) that it can be difficult to focus on swing mechanics and arm speed. I guess it can help to develop some muscle memory that hopefully stays in tack when you take actual swings. But just like playing pepper, if you don't take it seriously you aren't going to get any benefit out of it.
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Post by vbkid111 on Feb 10, 2016 14:39:18 GMT -5
Do you believe the follow through after a swing of a club/bat/racket has anything to do with what happens to the flight of the ball? What about follow through on a pitch? Isn't that analogous to the wrist snap? This is the essential component that is missed by these comments regarding "Wrist Snap." THAT, and the fact mentioned on page one that hitters at many levels of beach and indoor do not always stone the ball 90 miles an hour to get a kill--in many controlled swings, "snapping" the ball adds a control factor that, yes, places a Meghan Courtney above many other players. But back to the notion that at the highest levels the fingers never actually contact the ball and therefore any wrist snap is moot. Okay, but study any professional tennis player's follow through on serve. The hand/wrists snaps over, bring the head down in the follow through first before the rest of the racket & handle. Why? The top of the head does not "curl" over the ball upon this snap; the ball ricochets off the sweet spot only...and only for a nano-second. However, the follow through DICTATES the angle/direction the with which the racquet strikes the ball. It prevents an undercutting of the ball, which would send it into the stands; instead, the contact is often slightly "topping" the ball, spinning it downward. Again, that happens because the of the wrist throwing the top of the racquet over the top of the ball and down. In other words, the follow through in a way dictates the contact.
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Post by vbkid111 on Feb 10, 2016 14:42:11 GMT -5
You can create any kind of spin on the ball with locked, straight wrist that never breaks. Beejels post is a perfect breakdown of wrist snap. The most important being #7. If you believe in wrist snap that's ok, just stop spending hours teaching it to your kids. I'd like a video of someone creating a lot of topspin with a locked wrist. Internet, GO. It's the ANGLE/DIRECTION with which the hand strikes the ball that creates the topspin on a violently struck ball, not a loosely snapping wrist. However, the hand must (like the top of the racquet on a tennis serve) still finish over the top and down (fingers finishing to the floor. The hand/wrist is still, in a sense, finishing over the ball; just not a loose "snap." That's for roll shots.
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Wrist snap
Feb 10, 2016 15:03:21 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by sevb on Feb 10, 2016 15:03:21 GMT -5
Yet another reason to fire Karch!!
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Post by c4ndlelight on Feb 10, 2016 15:03:56 GMT -5
This is the essential component that is missed by these comments regarding "Wrist Snap." THAT, and the fact mentioned on page one that hitters at many levels of beach and indoor do not always stone the ball 90 miles an hour to get a kill--in many controlled swings, "snapping" the ball adds a control factor that, yes, places a Meghan Courtney above many other players. But back to the notion that at the highest levels the fingers never actually contact the ball and therefore any wrist snap is moot. Okay, but study any professional tennis player's follow through on serve. The hand/wrists snaps over, bring the head down in the follow through first before the rest of the racket & handle. Why? The top of the head does not "curl" over the ball upon this snap; the ball ricochets off the sweet spot only...and only for a nano-second. However, the follow through DICTATES the angle/direction the with which the racquet strikes the ball. It prevents an undercutting of the ball, which would send it into the stands; instead, the contact is often slightly "topping" the ball, spinning it downward. Again, that happens because the of the wrist throwing the top of the racquet over the top of the ball and down. In other words, the follow through in a way dictates the contact. Did you watch the tennis video? It shows that these statements are incorrect. The BALL and the location of the ball on the racket is what determines the follow-through. I don't disagree that wrist angle helps topspin (if the ball is struck in the correct spot). But snapping the wrist "during" or after contact does not cause topspin. Did you watch the tennis video? The whole point of the video was that the motion of the swing (despite being only a nanosecond in length) created topspin and not the angle of contact. It also wasn't talking about the tennis serve as the example above states. I could see using lessons from hitting forehands from/behind the baseline if we were talking about Japanese-style sidearm serves, but not the spiking motion. I don't think there's a tennis coach around NOT teaching players to snap on the ball on serve/overhead smash.
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Post by wayout on Feb 10, 2016 15:08:46 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why no one has bothered to show this in a video, slowed waaaaaaaaaaaaay down. USAV, since this is their thing, should be on this. I looked for a good video. The FIVB website has the World Championships broken down and you can watch them in slomo but the quality is not good and the frames are to far apart to see what we need to see. I am not sure volleyball has been filmed in the high-def that tennis has. Unfortunately there is not a quick video of that quality to find.
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Post by wayout on Feb 10, 2016 15:17:23 GMT -5
You can't see where she hit the ball. But her wrist never breaks. The other attacks I saw in this video are hard to see when the ball actually leaves the ball so it hard to tell if the "snap" has any effect on the ball.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 15:47:32 GMT -5
Get a ball. Hit it with a wrist snap. Hit it without a wrist snap. Share results.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 17:00:04 GMT -5
Get a ball. Hit it with a wrist snap. Hit it without a wrist snap. Share results. This has already been completed. Get a ball. Hit it with a wrist snap. Hit it without a wrist snap. Share Debate results.
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Post by s0uthie on Feb 10, 2016 19:04:09 GMT -5
There seem to be several lines of thinking in this thread. Here's my take: the wrist snap is a symptom of a proper swing. It shows that your swing is loose and relaxed through the end of your kinetic chain. The bio-mechanical goal of the swing is to impart the power generated by the body's torquing motion to the hand.
What the wrist snap doesn't do: CREATE topspin. The ball is not in contact with your hand long enough for you to be imparting spin with the snap.
Perhaps as coaches we shouldn't be focusing on the snap as a means of generating spin or as a magical cure to hit the ball down in bounds. Focusing on relaxation and speed through the end of the swing may be more beneficial. I certainly wouldn't spend any limited practice time (in a club setting) bouncing the ball against the wall laser-focused on the snap.
From the men's game:
In almost every one of the swings in that video, the hitters wrist is relaxed and snaps through on the follow through (yes, AFTER the ball is gone). I can't tell, based on this thread, whether that means that I'm for the wrist snap or against it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 19:20:59 GMT -5
There seem to be several lines of thinking in this thread. Here's my take: the wrist snap is a symptom of a proper swing. It shows that your swing is loose and relaxed through the end of your kinetic chain. The bio-mechanical goal of the swing is to impart the power generated by the body's torquing motion to the hand. What the wrist snap doesn't do: CREATE topspin. The ball is not in contact with your hand long enough for you to be imparting spin with the snap. Perhaps as coaches we shouldn't be focusing on the snap as a means of generating spin or as a magical cure to hit the ball down in bounds. Focusing on relaxation and speed through the end of the swing may be more beneficial. I certainly wouldn't spend any limited practice time (in a club setting) bouncing the ball against the wall laser-focused on the snap. From the men's game: In almost every one of the swings in that video, the hitters wrist is relaxed and snaps through on the follow through (yes, AFTER the ball is gone). I can't tell, based on this thread, whether that means that I'm for the wrist snap or against it.
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Wrist snap
Feb 10, 2016 20:50:31 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Hawk Attack on Feb 10, 2016 20:50:31 GMT -5
The nice thing about telling a kid "snap your wrist" is that it's an easy cue, they understand it, and typically they're going to give the result you want on next contact. True. It is especially good when they hit one out of bounds, then snap the next one and hit it in the net. And the coaches and parents favorite - "Talk" or "Communicate". That one is fun when the setter was supposed to get it but he/she didn't. I also love "call the ball". What do you want me to call it? Wilson, Tachikara, Molten, Bob? I guess it makes them feel like they are being helpful. They're not that stupid. They understand you want them to produce more top spin on the ball. The situation you're describing isn't very common.
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Post by cardinalvolleyball on Feb 10, 2016 22:17:09 GMT -5
what is your real question? Is hitting a ball against the wall improving you. Yes, but not as much as hitting the net. Is learning how to snap your wrist imperative to becoming a better volleyball player? Yes! It's all about angles and physics. Even if you put clay stanley on a girls net the angle he is hitting is determined by the angle of his hand on contact and that is controlled by the wrist. Real question should be what are the best ways to teach hitters to control their hits. The angle your hand contacts the ball is very important. The amount of time your hand is contacting the ball is less than half a second. No one is physically capable of snapping their wrist over the ball in that amount of time. If your hand starts at that angle and never moves during your approach you will get the same result as "snapping". That is the point. Wrist snap is a myth. If your hand is in the correct position to hit the ball it has nothing do with your wrist movement (because you can't move your wrist fast enough to make a difference). So devils advocate here. You are saying that it is equally effective to jump with your wrist already bent and try to make contact with the ball? Snapping uses the same principle of staying open to the setter. You are increasing the window of opportunity to generate maximum force onto the ball. Snapping your wrist is the by product of bringing the hand through to the ball to create the proper angle for your attack.
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