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Post by ironhammer on May 3, 2016 20:29:55 GMT -5
Well, since the US won the WC in 2014 without her (and winning the WGP last year in her absence), I think its pretty clear US can do just fine without her as it stands right now, regardless of anyone's fault. Yeah the US lost the World Cup without her last year. But there is no way now to show her presence on the team could have made a difference. There is simply no way to prove that after the fact. I'd hate to be in Karch's shoes. It was probably true for Hugh, too, after the team climbed to #1 in the world, but this is a job where nothing less than gold will be considered a failure. Not fair, because of the luck involved, but a fact. And if they "fail," the second-guessing will be brutal. (It's not like they are even the prohibitive favorites -- like USA Basketball. Huge expectations for something that is 50/50 at best.) I agree its unfair to compare the WNT to the basketball dream team. The dream team was an era when the US was just miles ahead of everyone else. No other team even came close to posing as a serious challenge. Not so in Women Volleyball. China or Brazil or Russia are no pushovers. And as talented as Hooker is, I don't think she is in the "indispensable" category. She's not the "Michael Jordan", "Wayne Gretsky" or "Babe Ruth" of US volleyball. She is certainly good, but not so good as to compare to those greats in the other sports.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:36:58 GMT -5
Maybe some of the athletes had a say in how they felt about Destinee being a part of this team. Some did. I know of one in particular.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:39:06 GMT -5
You say that you don't know exactly the reason that she's not on the team, but you then talk about her not buying into what the coach is trying to do. Destinee Hooker could roll out of bed right now without any training and still be the best player at her position for the national team. It's just like Candace Parker not being on the women's basketball olympic team this year because Geno Auriemma just like Karch Kiraly is an egomaniac that thinks it's all about him. This is the real world, not utopia there's going to be differences when your dealing with people. Karch Kiraly thinks he's more important than he really is because you all have put him on a pedestal. He's just the coach, and when you're the coach you find away to make it work with one of the best players in the WORLD. "Just the coach" Again, why does no responsibility fall on one of the best players in the world to get along with the coach? Because it is LITERALLY the job description of the head coach to manage people. The problem here is that a coach was hired with zero experience managing a group of professional female athletes.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:41:12 GMT -5
Perhaps those athletes you mentioned respect the coach and abide by the team rules and philosophies. I don't know exactly the reason Destinee is not on the team. But I do wonder why everyone puts this on Karch and not the one athlete who has failed to buy in to what he is doing. It's just like Candace Parker not being on the women's basketball olympic team this year because Geno Auriemma just like Karch Kiraly is an egomaniac that thinks it's all about him. Men coaching women. All about that dynamic. Exerting authority/dominance doesn't seem as common when men are coaching men.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:42:47 GMT -5
Ok, I keep hearing people say that Karch is an egomaniac and the reason Destiny is not on the team. I have had the opportunity to spend some time in the National Team gym over the past several summers, both with her present and without. The biggest issue with Destiny isn't so much her ability. She is a great hitter, she an average-at-best blocker and defender, which for an Opposite at the National Team level is less than ideal. But as you pointed out, she can hit, so there's that. She has been out for various reasons for the last several years and is not any where near the player she was in the last Olympic cycle, but she's a good player and worth consideration. Karch worked with her for the previous Olympic cycle, so it isn't as if he doesn't know what she's like and what she's capable of. The issue is everything else that comes with her. She doesn't work hard in the gym. She is a terrible teammate. And she makes the people around her worse. The other people training in the gym don't want to play with her because it is all about her and her talent level isn't so far above the next best player that it is worth it to deal with her. She's insufferable to be around and it affects the play of everyone in the gym. The overall vibe in the gym when she wasn't there was incredibly productive. With her in the mix, it was contentious and counter-productive. Additionally, Karch's job is to win. There are between 8 and 15 coaches in the gym with the team, helping out and observing, on a nearly daily basis, most of which are people who's opinion Karch trusts. Karch meets regularly with the athletes that are training. If one or more of them came to Karch and said "We really need Destiny" and gave a reasonable argument, she would be invited to train. But everyone involved with the team, for the most part, agrees that not having her there is better for the overall group. Volleyball, more than nearly any other sport, is very reliant on team chemistry, especially at the top levels because everyone has talent. Take that from whatever you want. I spend more time observing the men's side, but I have seen enough to understand why Karch doesn't feel the need to have her in the gym. I appreciate your post, but many of the details included are incorrect. I understand that they're probably your embellished opinion based on the reality that you perceived.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:43:04 GMT -5
Kobe Bryant Shaq Carmelo Antony Dennis Rodman Bill Lambeer (hell the whole team that Chuck Daly had to put up with to win) DWIGHT HOWARD All very hard to get along with. Good coaches still do not leave them off the team or riding the bench. + Karch Kiraly
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:43:51 GMT -5
That particular team set a school record for consecutive wins. The streak was snapped at the worst of times, largely because people on the court couldn't get along and they didn't want to be there anymore. Player cited above was the major culprit. I think the weak coach was the culprit. But I only have the details you've provided.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:44:55 GMT -5
Three minds are not necessarily better than one, particularly if one of you knows what you are doing. Ok, how about all of the players who stopped by to complain about their teammate? The fact that you allowed this to occur speaks very, very loudly about your abilities (or, lack thereof) as a coach. So disappointing for the athletes.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:45:25 GMT -5
You knew enough to meet every week. You listened to your players complain. You choked in the playoffs, knowing all this. You complained about your player, vowing never to recruit another like her. You're a loser. Get over it. I have. We all complained about her and hated her. Wow.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:48:03 GMT -5
Does it have to be that one or the other is a bad person? Could it not be possible that Hooker had personal troubles that interfered with her volleyball? Karch was hoping she would sort them out, but it didn't happen? But, really, isn't it waaaay too late for her to rejoin the team for this Olympics? Precisely. Perhaps its not Hooker or Karch's fault. Its just circumstances ( or "fate" or "happenchance", whatever you like to call it) that got in the way. In that event, its not either Karch or Hooker's fault. That is not the case. If you don't know the details surrounding this situation, which have been provided many times in many threads by many posters on this forum over the past 3-4 years, don't offer your opinion. The situation was engineered to result in Hooker's dismissal from the program.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:49:43 GMT -5
I'd hate to be in Karch's shoes. It was probably true for Hugh, too, after the team climbed to #1 in the world, but this is a job where nothing less than gold will be considered a failure. Not fair, because of the luck involved, but a fact. And if they "fail," the second-guessing will be brutal. (It's not like they are even the prohibitive favorites -- like USA Basketball. Huge expectations for something that is 50/50 at best.) She is certainly good, but not so good as to compare to those greats in the other sports. She wasn't given the opportunity.
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Post by Gorflorg Orshforg on May 3, 2016 21:59:17 GMT -5
It's just like Candace Parker not being on the women's basketball olympic team this year because Geno Auriemma just like Karch Kiraly is an egomaniac that thinks it's all about him. Men coaching women. All about that dynamic. Exerting authority/dominance doesn't seem as common when men are coaching men. As a man who has both coached and played for men and women, I can tell you that this is not the case.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 22:23:18 GMT -5
It's just like Candace Parker not being on the women's basketball olympic team this year because Geno Auriemma just like Karch Kiraly is an egomaniac that thinks it's all about him. Men coaching women. All about that dynamic. Exerting authority/dominance doesn't seem as common when men are coaching men. WOW. This actually says it all. The dynamic is effed up.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on May 3, 2016 22:26:55 GMT -5
Ok, I keep hearing people say that Karch is an egomaniac and the reason Destiny is not on the team. I have had the opportunity to spend some time in the National Team gym over the past several summers, both with her present and without. The biggest issue with Destiny isn't so much her ability. She is a great hitter, she an average-at-best blocker and defender, which for an Opposite at the National Team level is less than ideal. But as you pointed out, she can hit, so there's that. She has been out for various reasons for the last several years and is not any where near the player she was in the last Olympic cycle, but she's a good player and worth consideration. Karch worked with her for the previous Olympic cycle, so it isn't as if he doesn't know what she's like and what she's capable of. The issue is everything else that comes with her. She doesn't work hard in the gym. She is a terrible teammate. And she makes the people around her worse. The other people training in the gym don't want to play with her because it is all about her and her talent level isn't so far above the next best player that it is worth it to deal with her. She's insufferable to be around and it affects the play of everyone in the gym. The overall vibe in the gym when she wasn't there was incredibly productive. With her in the mix, it was contentious and counter-productive. Additionally, Karch's job is to win. There are between 8 and 15 coaches in the gym with the team, helping out and observing, on a nearly daily basis, most of which are people who's opinion Karch trusts. Karch meets regularly with the athletes that are training. If one or more of them came to Karch and said "We really need Destiny" and gave a reasonable argument, she would be invited to train. But everyone involved with the team, for the most part, agrees that not having her there is better for the overall group. Volleyball, more than nearly any other sport, is very reliant on team chemistry, especially at the top levels because everyone has talent. Take that from whatever you want. I spend more time observing the men's side, but I have seen enough to understand why Karch doesn't feel the need to have her in the gym. I appreciate your post, but many of the details included are incorrect. I understand that they're probably your embellished opinion based on the reality that you perceived. Nah, that post was actually the most accurate description of the situation I've read to date. If anything, it was actually a bit kind to Hooker.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 22:28:37 GMT -5
Well, since the US won the WC in 2014 without her (and winning the WGP last year in her absence), I think its pretty clear US can do just fine without her as it stands right now, regardless of anyone's fault. Yeah the US lost the World Cup without her last year. But there is no way now to show her presence on the team could have made a difference. There is simply no way to prove that after the fact. I'd hate to be in Karch's shoes. It was probably true for Hugh, too, after the team climbed to #1 in the world, but this is a job where nothing less than gold will be considered a failure. Not fair, because of the luck involved, but a fact. And if they "fail," the second-guessing will be brutal. (It's not like they are even the prohibitive favorites -- like USA Basketball. Huge expectations for something that is 50/50 at best.) This is what happens when you have more assets than anyone in the entire world. Silver is losing... We have the only system where 18 year old men/women can get 200-450,000 in value (education/training etc) to play a sport for four years. Then we get to pick the best of all of them and we started with the LARGEST first world population to choose from in the first place. Why shouldn't we be expected to win at everything? Not even the soviet union expends that kind of money training athletes (when you sum all the money all the clubs/colleges etc expend on developing athletes so we can pick and choose).
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