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Post by redbeard2008 on Jan 8, 2018 0:47:21 GMT -5
Thanks, I don't instagram, didn't know about clicking on ther nome de plume Jenni Nogueras - setter for Washington (2009-13). Has played professionally in Puerto Rico and is on the Puerto Rican National Team, but the PR pro league is shut down this year due to the hurricane aftermath. Lots of Puerto Rican players, women and men, have transferred to international leagues to be able to play this year (including also Daly Santana). Nogueras Helping Puerto Rico Pick Up The Pieces
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 7:27:20 GMT -5
Taylor Sandbothe is also playing for Regatas Lima with Holly Toliver as teammate.
Here's their Peruvian League debut (Taylor joins the action late in the 2nd set):
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Post by Upfrontvb on Jan 8, 2018 11:33:55 GMT -5
And once again another country starts a league and the USA can't get it together to put together a respectable program to give more opportunities to USA players to continue to play to be prepare each year for major tournaments.
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Post by thethunderbird on Jan 8, 2018 15:48:03 GMT -5
And once again another country starts a league and the USA can't get it together to put together a respectable program to give more opportunities to USA players to continue to play to be prepare each year for major tournaments. The Peruvian league has been around for a while.. Regatas has had teams since the 80's at least. It wasn't just started this year, though they don't tend to have many Americans playing down there. My guess is that because Puerto Rico isn't having a league, they picked up more Americans this year than usual.
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Post by greekvbfan1 on Jan 8, 2018 15:57:13 GMT -5
Just a short comment (by a European) : Competition for good players from US to find a good team in a highly competitive league will become tougher and tougher. Italy and Turkey are having already some remarkable players and few teams can step up with top teams in budgets' competition. Russia and China, two countries with high competitive leagues seem not to be attractive for high level US players. Korea and Japan as an alternative have high standards for the players that are importing (since salaries are quite high) and they are adamant that height is a crucial factor in how they are selecting (6.2" is the minimum). Keep in mind that December till May more than 100 players are graduating from US Colleges of Division I and at least 35 of them will be given a chance to play overseas (me personal estimation). That's a huge supply of players in market terms and even excellent players will struggle to find a strong team. Also keep in mind that middle level clubs and leagues in Europe are not in a great shape considering where they stand financially. With all those factors in mind a Spanish team or a Hungarian one is not the worse choice (since some of those leagues are playing also in European Cups and players have the chance to shine in International level). Sorry for the huge comment but the issue is somewhat more complicated than it seems.
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Post by Upfrontvb on Jan 8, 2018 16:24:52 GMT -5
Good comment. It will be difficult for many USA players to find teams that are competitive at a higher level. I think we lost out on several up and coming players who went overseas to plays but as benched players because they were 3rd on the roster to play and then couldn't find a team or ended up not wanting to play any longer..(i.e.: Hagglund, VanSant just a couple of the top of my head. But even Banwarth couldn't find a team.) I'm not familiar with some of the smaller leagues (Spain, Greece, Finland..but playing is better than not playing)
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Post by greekvbfan1 on Jan 8, 2018 19:57:35 GMT -5
Good comment. It will be difficult for many USA players to find teams that are competitive at a higher level. I think we lost out on several up and coming players who went overseas to plays but as benched players because they were 3rd on the roster to play and then couldn't find a team or ended up not wanting to play any longer..(i.e.: Hagglund, VanSant just a couple of the top of my head. But even Banwarth couldn't find a team.) I'm not familiar with some of the smaller leagues (Spain, Greece, Finland..but playing is better than not playing) I totally agree! And some times when I'm reading your comments in an US forum I've seen an over- optimistic approach for some players. Now women's volleyball is at higher level worldwide and US colleges' graduates are still at a young age and have many things to learn and to prove when they are pursuing a pro- career. Teams are investing and want immediate results. And young US players have some issues adapting to this different mentality of professional teams.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 7:36:32 GMT -5
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Post by donut on Jan 10, 2018 10:05:45 GMT -5
Good comment. It will be difficult for many USA players to find teams that are competitive at a higher level. I think we lost out on several up and coming players who went overseas to plays but as benched players because they were 3rd on the roster to play and then couldn't find a team or ended up not wanting to play any longer..(i.e.: Hagglund, VanSant just a couple of the top of my head. But even Banwarth couldn't find a team.) I'm not familiar with some of the smaller leagues (Spain, Greece, Finland..but playing is better than not playing) I totally agree! And some times when I'm reading your comments in an US forum I've seen an over- optimistic approach for some players. Now women's volleyball is at higher level worldwide and US colleges' graduates are still at a young age and have many things to learn and to prove when they are pursuing a pro- career. Teams are investing and want immediate results. And young US players have some issues adapting to this different mentality of professional teams. I'm confused what you're arguing. Yes, the level of international volleyball is increasing but the USA has never been as competitive internationally as they have been the last 10 years. The portion of US players in top clubs is probably decreasing but that is because the number of US players playing professionally is increasing - the sport is growing substantially. The support for going overseas has increased and more "mid-level" NCAA players are pursuing volleyball careers. I would not argue that we have less representation in the top clubs. Most of the top clubs have at least 1 American player. Also if you are seeing recent grads who are expecting to go and play for the Vakifbanks, Dinamo Moscows, or Rexona Adeses of the world, you are seeing something I'm not. Jordan Larson and Megan Easy both played in Puerto Rico after graduation and then played for (at the time) lower Russian and Italian teams respectively. Fawcett played for a now extinct Russian club. Akinradewo's first season was with a lower Japanese team. Kim Glass played a full season in Puerto Rico after graduating. Heather Bown played for a lower Italian team in her first season, Ogonna Nnamani started in Puerto Rico and then played for a lower Italian team. It has always taken most of our best athletes 2-3 teams to reach "top-level competition." In short, yes maybe more athletes are "burning out" but that is because there are more athletes abroad to begin with. Our top players are still as prevalent if not more prevalent on the international scene as they have ever been. I think US volleyball in terms of interest, # of players and talent is at least keeping pace with the rest of the world. Now, are we training them appropriately to maximize potential for FIVB play? That's another conversation.
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Post by VolleyTX on Jan 10, 2018 17:38:24 GMT -5
I totally agree! And some times when I'm reading your comments in an US forum I've seen an over- optimistic approach for some players. Now women's volleyball is at higher level worldwide and US colleges' graduates are still at a young age and have many things to learn and to prove when they are pursuing a pro- career. Teams are investing and want immediate results. And young US players have some issues adapting to this different mentality of professional teams. I'm confused what you're arguing. Yes, the level of international volleyball is increasing but the USA has never been as competitive internationally as they have been the last 10 years. The portion of US players in top clubs is probably decreasing but that is because the number of US players playing professionally is increasing - the sport is growing substantially. The support for going overseas has increased and more "mid-level" NCAA players are pursuing volleyball careers. I would not argue that we have less representation in the top clubs. Most of the top clubs have at least 1 American player. Also if you are seeing recent grads who are expecting to go and play for the Vakifbanks, Dinamo Moscows, or Rexona Adeses of the world, you are seeing something I'm not. Jordan Larson and Megan Easy both played in Puerto Rico after graduation and then played for (at the time) lower Russian and Italian teams respectively. Fawcett played for a now extinct Russian club. Akinradewo's first season was with a lower Japanese team. Kim Glass played a full season in Puerto Rico after graduating. Heather Bown played for a lower Italian team in her first season, Ogonna Nnamani started in Puerto Rico and then played for a lower Italian team. It has always taken most of our best athletes 2-3 teams to reach "top-level competition." In short, yes maybe more athletes are "burning out" but that is because there are more athletes abroad to begin with. Our top players are still as prevalent if not more prevalent on the international scene as they have ever been. I think US volleyball in terms of interest, # of players and talent is at least keeping pace with the rest of the world. Now, are we training them appropriately to maximize potential for FIVB play? That's another conversation. Yes! I can hardly turn on a Turkish, Italian or FIVB Champion's League match without seeing several US players on the court. Rarely, are there none. Just the other day, I watched an italian league match where the two setters were both American. (Carlini and Hancock) As I recall, there were 2 other (maybe more) americans on the floor. Just 10-15 years ago, there were only a handful of Americans in the top leagues. To the other point, we are now seeing players immediately out of college being impact players on top club teams (Carlini and Bricio). THAT NEVER HAPPENED! The level of NCAA college volleyball has dramatically increased. I still don't like the sub rules. It is causing players like Lexi Sun (and others) to develop more slowly than she should.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 18:07:10 GMT -5
I'm confused what you're arguing. Yes, the level of international volleyball is increasing but the USA has never been as competitive internationally as they have been the last 10 years. The portion of US players in top clubs is probably decreasing but that is because the number of US players playing professionally is increasing - the sport is growing substantially. The support for going overseas has increased and more "mid-level" NCAA players are pursuing volleyball careers. I would not argue that we have less representation in the top clubs. Most of the top clubs have at least 1 American player. Also if you are seeing recent grads who are expecting to go and play for the Vakifbanks, Dinamo Moscows, or Rexona Adeses of the world, you are seeing something I'm not. Jordan Larson and Megan Easy both played in Puerto Rico after graduation and then played for (at the time) lower Russian and Italian teams respectively. Fawcett played for a now extinct Russian club. Akinradewo's first season was with a lower Japanese team. Kim Glass played a full season in Puerto Rico after graduating. Heather Bown played for a lower Italian team in her first season, Ogonna Nnamani started in Puerto Rico and then played for a lower Italian team. It has always taken most of our best athletes 2-3 teams to reach "top-level competition." In short, yes maybe more athletes are "burning out" but that is because there are more athletes abroad to begin with. Our top players are still as prevalent if not more prevalent on the international scene as they have ever been. I think US volleyball in terms of interest, # of players and talent is at least keeping pace with the rest of the world. Now, are we training them appropriately to maximize potential for FIVB play? That's another conversation. Yes! I can hardly turn on a Turkish, Italian or FIVB Champion's League match without seeing several US players on the court. Rarely, are there none. Just the other day, I watched an italian league match where the two setters were both American. (Carlini and Hancock) As I recall, there were 2 other (maybe more) americans on the floor. Just 10-15 years ago, there were only a handful of Americans in the top leagues. To the other point, we are now seeing players immediately out of college being impact players on top club teams (Carlini and Bricio). THAT NEVER HAPPENED! The level of NCAA college volleyball has dramatically increased. I still don't like the sub rules. It is causing players like Lexi Sun (and others) to develop more slowly than she should. In Turkey (first division) There`s only 3 Americans ( Larson,Adams,Robinson) Adams and Robinson are not full time starters in the league due to the international players rule, they get to play mostly against the weaker team and Champions League, but Vitra is only playing CEV CUP this season, Robinson has not impressed Guidetti so far and she has been a backup in Champions League so far. In Italy ( first division) there`s 8 (12 counting Drews,Newcombe,Easy,Tapp). But yes, the number of Americans are increasing.
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Post by greekvbfan1 on Jan 11, 2018 10:04:49 GMT -5
I totally agree! And some times when I'm reading your comments in an US forum I've seen an over- optimistic approach for some players. Now women's volleyball is at higher level worldwide and US colleges' graduates are still at a young age and have many things to learn and to prove when they are pursuing a pro- career. Teams are investing and want immediate results. And young US players have some issues adapting to this different mentality of professional teams. I'm confused what you're arguing. Yes, the level of international volleyball is increasing but the USA has never been as competitive internationally as they have been the last 10 years. The portion of US players in top clubs is probably decreasing but that is because the number of US players playing professionally is increasing - the sport is growing substantially. The support for going overseas has increased and more "mid-level" NCAA players are pursuing volleyball careers. I would not argue that we have less representation in the top clubs. Most of the top clubs have at least 1 American player. Also if you are seeing recent grads who are expecting to go and play for the Vakifbanks, Dinamo Moscows, or Rexona Adeses of the world, you are seeing something I'm not. Jordan Larson and Megan Easy both played in Puerto Rico after graduation and then played for (at the time) lower Russian and Italian teams respectively. Fawcett played for a now extinct Russian club. Akinradewo's first season was with a lower Japanese team. Kim Glass played a full season in Puerto Rico after graduating. Heather Bown played for a lower Italian team in her first season, Ogonna Nnamani started in Puerto Rico and then played for a lower Italian team. It has always taken most of our best athletes 2-3 teams to reach "top-level competition." In short, yes maybe more athletes are "burning out" but that is because there are more athletes abroad to begin with. Our top players are still as prevalent if not more prevalent on the international scene as they have ever been. I think US volleyball in terms of interest, # of players and talent is at least keeping pace with the rest of the world. Now, are we training them appropriately to maximize potential for FIVB play? That's another conversation. We are saying the exact same thing. US is supplying yearly a large number (large related to the available teams to help them pursuing a high level career) of very good players. Because of this large supply, market is getting tougher and tougher for some good players to find (not only a top team but..) sometimes a mid- level team. Europeans we will always wonder why there is not a US League (but that's another story)
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Post by greekvbfan1 on Jan 11, 2018 10:09:19 GMT -5
Just for making it clear : I'm a great fan of NCAA. Is one of the best organized leagues in the world (taking under consideration that players are U22 and with no contracts, pursuing at the same time academic credits) and TV coverage, length and depth of teams have no comparison in the rest of the world. The majority of European leagues don't have the resources available to NCAA or the TV coverage, the marketing, the branding etc. etc. etc.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Jan 11, 2018 12:27:08 GMT -5
The Puerto Rico professional league folding for 2018 has had an impact. Those are slots now not available to Puerto Rican and continental U.S. players, and which have been stepping stones to playing in Europe - Courtney Thompson started out in Puerto Rico, before going to Switzerland. I believe that 28 Puerto Rican professional players (including Daly Santana) have transferred to international leagues - those are also slots no longer available to U.S. players.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Jan 11, 2018 12:35:41 GMT -5
Just for making it clear : I'm a great fan of NCAA. Is one of the best organized leagues in the world (taking under consideration that players are U22 and with no contracts, pursuing at the same time academic credits) and TV coverage, length and depth of teams have no comparison in the rest of the world. The majority of European leagues don't have the resources available to NCAA or the TV coverage, the marketing, the branding etc. etc. etc. What they do have is advertising slathered over practically every available jersey, floor, or sideline space. The NCAA has relatively little advertising, none on jerseys or floors. The visual pollution alone makes it hard for me to watch international volleyball.
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