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Post by acemand23 on May 11, 2017 10:30:36 GMT -5
Grow the game!!
No growth from the current tour design. the tour design now is to grow the brand, not the game. Expanding more tour stops for the same pay out is like telling someone we plan on giving you a raise by having you work more hours... That is just about brand awareness.. most companies do this, but they are not trying to develop a sport.
NCAA is growing the sport. AAU, JO, juniors are growing the sport.
Tours should start making the stop more attractive to the players, which will bring in spectators...
An example would be to look at Poker... when there enough money on the line for 1 event, you get everyone's attention, along with sponsors and fans.
Side note. Telling players to sign a contract to one brand is the exact opposite of trying to grow the sport, all focused on growing the brand. The brand is not the sport.
Once you have grown the sport, then you expand. The current design is watered down so much, there is no way to grow interest in the game... just trying to stamp your brand on consumer items...
Grow the game!!
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Post by bigfan on May 11, 2017 12:27:16 GMT -5
If I was to start from scratch as the AVPI would contact all the current seniors on the college beach circuit who have used up their eligibility and invite them to the Hermosa. Manhattan and Huntington beach opens, fly them in, put them up and hope they qualify for these tournaments. Slowly but surely the base would grow of good young players on the AVP tour after 3 year. I would dismiss the current players as a lost opportunity and lost generation and write them off.
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Post by crawdaddy on May 11, 2017 12:50:45 GMT -5
I'll give my two cents here. To the extent a tour can make money, it must bring fans to the venue where either (a) they can charge them an entry fee, (b) sell them stuff, (c) get sponsors excited enough about the turnout to provide sponsorship dollars.
This is where I think Leonard has it right in the way he's run the WSOVB. The key is to create a party - an atmosphere where people think they're missing out on something if they don't show up. That's what worked about the 80s/90s AVP. When the circus rolled into town, people didn't want to miss out on the fun. That fun involves alcohol and sex appeal. The volleyball is important, but in some ways secondary. People didn't show up to Churchill Downs last weekend to watch horses race, they showed up to rage. Kids don't go to Coachella to see Kanye, they go to party and to be seen.
So Leonard finding a beach where you can sell alcohol, and then bringing in live music and an associated six-man tournament, etc. He was creating an event where the party was front and center and watching the volleyball is just part of the party.
When I scan the stands of the current AVP, besides empty bleachers, I mainly see (a) middle-aged sober people; and (b) club volleyball kids who were probably dragged to the event by their middle-aged sober parents. That's not creating energy, that's not going to bring people back year-after-year. Whether it's the AVP or a revamped NVL, they need to bring back the party - as much as people want to mainstream beach volleyball, it's the best selling aspect of the sport. So, more booze, live music, hipper announcers, actively market the athletes' sex appeal (male and female), have raging pre- and after-parties, get all the local bars involved, etc.
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Post by BuckysHeat on May 11, 2017 13:11:22 GMT -5
I'll give my two cents here. To the extent a tour can make money, it must bring fans to the venue where either (a) they can charge them an entry fee, (b) sell them stuff, (c) get sponsors excited enough about the turnout to provide sponsorship dollars. This is where I think Leonard has it right in the way he's run the WSOVB. The key is to create a party - an atmosphere where people think they're missing out on something if they don't show up. That's what worked about the 80s/90s AVP. When the circus rolled into town, people didn't want to miss out on the fun. That fun involves alcohol and sex appeal. The volleyball is important, but in some ways secondary. People didn't show up to Churchill Downs last weekend to watch horses race, they showed up to rage. Kids don't go to Coachella to see Kanye, they go to party and to be seen. So Leonard finding a beach where you can sell alcohol, and then bringing in live music and an associated six-man tournament, etc. He was creating an event where the party was front and center and watching the volleyball is just part of the party. When I scan the stands of the current AVP, besides empty bleachers, I mainly see (a) middle-aged sober people; and (b) club volleyball kids who were probably dragged to the event by their middle-aged sober parents. That's not creating energy, that's not going to bring people back year-after-year. Whether it's the AVP or a revamped NVL, they need to bring back the party - as much as people want to mainstream beach volleyball, it's the best selling aspect of the sport. So, more booze, live music, hipper announcers, actively market the athletes' sex appeal (male and female), have raging pre- and after-parties, get all the local bars involved, etc. Just going to throw out Waupaca Boatride - a model for Pro Beach VB to follow.
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Post by wilsonthevolleyball2 on May 11, 2017 18:01:06 GMT -5
Hmmm, thats a tough one. Well, to assume this is a perfect, ideal world I would definitely try and get some more events that were co hosted with the FIVB- maybe make them 3 or 4 stars (or even 5). Allow the tournaments to showcase the best on the AVP, and also some of the best of the FIVB. But the real kicker would be to try and actually grow the sport. The thing is, as many have pointed out, beach volleyball is truly a niche market. To get the sport to grow you would need two things: a reeeeeeeally good grassroots program to grow the game from the ground up, and mulitiple players who can be the faces of the league, have some exhibition matches to show everyone. But really, the big thing would be to convince multiple sponsors that this is a sport worth supporting. Also, just adding on: I would definitely add a sense of spectacle to the tours. You look at what the FIVB does, like say in the World Championships, and its just huge. People flock to see these events. Can't be stingy: really got to put every penny to good use.
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Post by Semp12 on May 12, 2017 8:39:03 GMT -5
I would fold the AVP into big tournaments like motherload, seaside etc.. the crowd is already there, maximize it. AVP tournaments are mostly attended by players I believe, but as a player I would always rather play than watch. If I can do both, all the better! This would get the game back to it's roots and re-establish it's base. Don't try to be tennis or football or nascar without a base. I wouldn't worry about TV, youtube has it covered. I would try to get the TV rights to the olympics locked down, but again your base will find it online. The sport is small potatoes, eat potatoes and smile and live within your means. IF the sport booms again great, grow with it, but I wouldn't start my business model with that expectation. Lastly, buyout the NVL, the sport isn't big enough to have two leagues splitting talent and money. Buy out the NVL? If you're the premier tour and you don't make money, how much do you think the NVL is worth? 5K? I agree with the reality show as well. There are definitely some personalities outside the top and in the qualifier. If you want entertainment, can someone reach out to Dana and stick a mic on him?
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Post by newenglander on May 12, 2017 9:23:20 GMT -5
I went to Hermosa 4-5 years ago for the AVP when we were out that way on a family vacation... shockingly little AVP stuff for sale. My kids were looking for it. Lost opportunity for the AVP to get me to buy some overpriced stuff that would have been worn over and over again advertising their product to other volleyball players. Conversely we were staying in Huntington Beach the week before the US Open of Surfing and there was tons of stuff to buy.
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Post by Scipio Aemilianus on May 13, 2017 12:09:49 GMT -5
US Open of Surfing in Huntington is a perfect example of this. Free brand giveaways, concerts, skateboard ramp on the side, most of all it is the big event that week and "you are missing out if you don't go". I'd be stunned if more than 25% of the people that attend the US Open of Surfing even watched a single surfer for more than 3 minutes. Watching the surfers is not why thousands of teenagers/20s people go.
The World Series volleyball event is the closest we have to this. Make the main beaches/tour stops HUGE events, music, bars, etc.. The best way to get large amounts of people to go to a beach volleyball event is to offer something to do/watch that isn't beach volleyball. I agree with the description of AVP bleachers being "sober middle-aged people and young club players being brought by their sober middle-aged parents". Gotta change up the demographics and make the weekend an event for the 15-35 year old crowd. Make it fun. Simply watching 4 people play beach volleyball and nothing else is not enough to bring a crowd.
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Post by timduckforlife on May 14, 2017 19:52:23 GMT -5
US Open of Surfing in Huntington is a perfect example of this. Free brand giveaways, concerts, skateboard ramp on the side, most of all it is the big event that week and "you are missing out if you don't go". I'd be stunned if more than 25% of the people that attend the US Open of Surfing even watched a single surfer for more than 3 minutes. Watching the surfers is not why thousands of teenagers/20s people go. The World Series volleyball event is the closest we have to this. Make the main beaches/tour stops HUGE events, music, bars, etc.. The best way to get large amounts of people to go to a beach volleyball event is to offer something to do/watch that isn't beach volleyball. I agree with the description of AVP bleachers being "sober middle-aged people and young club players being brought by their sober middle-aged parents". Gotta change up the demographics and make the weekend an event for the 15-35 year old crowd. Make it fun. Simply watching 4 people play beach volleyball and nothing else is not enough to bring a crowd. While I don't disagree that a more party atmosphere is needed, having a tournament that no one cares about or being a side show to a bigger party only reinforces bvb stereotypes. Yes, there does need to be a party, but the center of attention needs to be on the game. The kids that go should want to play volleyball. There should be clinics, pro players helping out, doing photo-ops. Growing the game should be one of the paramount,must-have goals of a tournament. As said, just having a giant party, and oh yeah a bvb tournament is happening only reinforces the guys in board shorts and girls in bikinis playing a rec sport, and takes away from the Olympic caliber athletes that play it. Don't get me wrong here, the party is needed. I don't think football would've become the sport that it has become without the thousands of tailgate parties that happen all over the country every week during the season. Yet for all the parties before and after the game, the center of attention is still the game. Just think about what it was like to be a kid and going to your 1st big time college or pro football game. Walking thru the parking lot, tailgates everywhere, the sights, the smells, the atmosphere, etc... You just knew the football was a big deal. That's the atmosphere bvb needs.
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Post by guest2 on May 15, 2017 0:38:31 GMT -5
I'll give my two cents here. To the extent a tour can make money, it must bring fans to the venue where either (a) they can charge them an entry fee, (b) sell them stuff, (c) get sponsors excited enough about the turnout to provide sponsorship dollars. This is where I think Leonard has it right in the way he's run the WSOVB. The key is to create a party - an atmosphere where people think they're missing out on something if they don't show up. That's what worked about the 80s/90s AVP. When the circus rolled into town, people didn't want to miss out on the fun. That fun involves alcohol and sex appeal. The volleyball is important, but in some ways secondary. People didn't show up to Churchill Downs last weekend to watch horses race, they showed up to rage. Kids don't go to Coachella to see Kanye, they go to party and to be seen. So Leonard finding a beach where you can sell alcohol, and then bringing in live music and an associated six-man tournament, etc. He was creating an event where the party was front and center and watching the volleyball is just part of the party. When I scan the stands of the current AVP, besides empty bleachers, I mainly see (a) middle-aged sober people; and (b) club volleyball kids who were probably dragged to the event by their middle-aged sober parents. That's not creating energy, that's not going to bring people back year-after-year. Whether it's the AVP or a revamped NVL, they need to bring back the party - as much as people want to mainstream beach volleyball, it's the best selling aspect of the sport. So, more booze, live music, hipper announcers, actively market the athletes' sex appeal (male and female), have raging pre- and after-parties, get all the local bars involved, etc. The need for a more fun environment is definitely true, but one other thing Leonard did well with the WSOBV is limiting the number of teams. For people that may know 2-3 teams, its easier to find players and teams to follow on a given day when there are 8 teams playing round robin. It would also be easier to build marketing around specific players, schedule events, and keep top players happy
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Post by Scipio Aemilianus on May 15, 2017 0:41:41 GMT -5
Just think about what it was like to be a kid and going to your 1st big time college or pro football game. Walking thru the parking lot, tailgates everywhere, the sights, the smells, the atmosphere, etc... You just knew the football was a big deal. That's the atmosphere bvb needs. I completely agree that this is the atmosphere that bvb needs. I just like how in that whole sentence of things you remember, the actual game wasn't mentioned. That same atmosphere is seen at MLS games and college baseball games just to name a few sports. That environment makes going fun more than the game being played. And that atmosphere is easy to create before a game and after a game because there is one big game at a set time. It's a day long tournament, not a 60 minute game with kickoff at 2pm. It's hard to create that atmosphere when it's multiple matches, dozens of players, on dozens of different courts, starting at different times. This element is different from the popular sports and only something you see at smaller sports like tennis, golf, surfing, etc.. AVP needs to look at those sports and how they run their majors, not football. PS, I am a huge huge volleyball fan but right now, I'd rather go to a European Darts tournament. I know it sounds ridiculous but watch a video or two on YouTube and I think everyone would agree. Now that is a must-go event with a tournament format more similar to bvb.
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Post by wilsonthevolleyball2 on May 15, 2017 8:30:45 GMT -5
Fully agree with the atmospheric talk: just take a look at the Swatch Series. The preview vids they release on YouTube alone really has an epic, not to be missed vibe. Plus they show that it is possible to have lots of different teams compete over a few days, yet still retain that incredibly fun feeling.
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Post by greenpier on May 15, 2017 12:18:01 GMT -5
Beach volleyball will never be more than a niche sport like down hill skiing.
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Post by crawdaddy on May 15, 2017 14:23:18 GMT -5
I'll give my two cents here. To the extent a tour can make money, it must bring fans to the venue where either (a) they can charge them an entry fee, (b) sell them stuff, (c) get sponsors excited enough about the turnout to provide sponsorship dollars. This is where I think Leonard has it right in the way he's run the WSOVB. The key is to create a party - an atmosphere where people think they're missing out on something if they don't show up. That's what worked about the 80s/90s AVP. When the circus rolled into town, people didn't want to miss out on the fun. That fun involves alcohol and sex appeal. The volleyball is important, but in some ways secondary. People didn't show up to Churchill Downs last weekend to watch horses race, they showed up to rage. Kids don't go to Coachella to see Kanye, they go to party and to be seen. So Leonard finding a beach where you can sell alcohol, and then bringing in live music and an associated six-man tournament, etc. He was creating an event where the party was front and center and watching the volleyball is just part of the party. When I scan the stands of the current AVP, besides empty bleachers, I mainly see (a) middle-aged sober people; and (b) club volleyball kids who were probably dragged to the event by their middle-aged sober parents. That's not creating energy, that's not going to bring people back year-after-year. Whether it's the AVP or a revamped NVL, they need to bring back the party - as much as people want to mainstream beach volleyball, it's the best selling aspect of the sport. So, more booze, live music, hipper announcers, actively market the athletes' sex appeal (male and female), have raging pre- and after-parties, get all the local bars involved, etc. The need for a more fun environment is definitely true, but one other thing Leonard did well with the WSOBV is limiting the number of teams. For people that may know 2-3 teams, its easier to find players and teams to follow on a given day when there are 8 teams playing round robin. It would also be easier to build marketing around specific players, schedule events, and keep top players happy Agree with this. Another advantage of the old AVP was you were likely to see the big stars in the finals almost every time. The side-out scoring as well as the double-elimination format contributed to this. It's interesting the (rare) consensus on this board about the importance of the party aspect of a successful tour. I don't think this distracts or diminishes the sport in any way. It's just acknowledging what gets people to get in their car, fight traffic, pay an entry fee, and hang out at a venue for 8 hours. I worry that people behind the sport will make the mistake of seeing rising numbers of youth beach volleyball players and think that's where they should focus on finding a market. There are an order of magnitude more indoor junior players and an professional indoor league will never fly in this country. Participation does not translate to fans. But a traveling beach party with beer and tequila and music flowing and Olympic caliber athletes competing wearing next to nothing is something that has (and can again) fly.
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Post by Semp12 on May 15, 2017 14:43:07 GMT -5
The sideshow theory was done (NVL: Preakness being the biggest). If it was a hit that made sense for both sides, they'd still be doing it.
I get the party side, but I also believe the juniors is the biggest growing piece of the VB community and the one that may be able to support this sport on a truly professional level in the future. Can we not have both?
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