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Post by mastermind on Sept 21, 2017 12:48:52 GMT -5
I am also puzzled by the delayed timeline. Maybe there is reason we don't know. But if the decision was made earlier this year during the club season, this player may have more options and also have more time to visit schools during the summer. Now college coaches are mostly focus on their own teams. But if a player is a stud, there is always a place for her no matter how late the process! This isn't in direct response to you, but I guess to everyone asking the similar question. Just to play devil's advocate, perhaps TB wanted to see how his current group of younger outsides would do when they're playing in meaningful matches. I believe it can be hard to tell exactly what you have on the roster from what you see in spring. Players are different in spring than they are in the fall. Without knowing the whole story, if the communication was "I want to see what this roster looks like in the fall", then I'd say that's reasonable. If this was the case but wasn't' communicated, then there's an issue there. It would make sense on a "build your team" level to wait and see, but if not communicated, then one could raise a "professionalism" argument. All that being said, VT is known for the anonymous sources that "know what really happened" but really don't, so I take everything- good and bad- with a grain of salt. It just seems that this board is so quick to try to tear coaches down and that's a shame. A lot of times with misinformation. General statement, not just about Tom Black. I have no horse in the race on this. I have no insider information. However, if this player is your DD, will you accept this situation with great understanding and same admiration of the coach who did this to your DD? Either someone was misleading the player that she would have a secure spot on the roster on the signing day , or the player wanted to take the risk even things might not work out for her. I can't imagine the player would not consider the back up until now with the situation of wait and see.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Sept 21, 2017 13:04:19 GMT -5
TB roster right now has 4 setters. I doubt he's concerned about adding a kid who might not play for the sake of the kid. There are 5 OH listed on the roster, one being a redshirt senior. They play the two freshman OH 6 rotations each. Only 1 recruit coming in 2018, a MB. So, next year they will go with 4 OH on the roster. Same number as the setters. Only 3 setters. One has zero stats for the year and isn't in any social media or even shown on the schedule poster. Starter is 6'2" and a 5-1 type. The two freshman are more 6-2 size. 5 OH's has really only been 2. Two appear to be injured or sick and RS senior has been playing OPP. 2018 has two former LMU recruits left in the class. One Middle and one OH. Both from SoCal! My impression is that he does care about "his" kids and their VB career path. But he has had some serious PR missteps in the transition. The jury is still out on him long term imho but I do not make any excuses for him on the time frame and handling of these transition decisions. It was absolutely handled wrong. Maybe Lanie will get a chance to thank him with that warm up shot under the bow!!
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Sept 21, 2017 13:12:14 GMT -5
This isn't in direct response to you, but I guess to everyone asking the similar question. Just to play devil's advocate, perhaps TB wanted to see how his current group of younger outsides would do when they're playing in meaningful matches. I believe it can be hard to tell exactly what you have on the roster from what you see in spring. Players are different in spring than they are in the fall. Without knowing the whole story, if the communication was "I want to see what this roster looks like in the fall", then I'd say that's reasonable. If this was the case but wasn't' communicated, then there's an issue there. It would make sense on a "build your team" level to wait and see, but if not communicated, then one could raise a "professionalism" argument. All that being said, VT is known for the anonymous sources that "know what really happened" but really don't, so I take everything- good and bad- with a grain of salt. It just seems that this board is so quick to try to tear coaches down and that's a shame. A lot of times with misinformation. General statement, not just about Tom Black. I have no horse in the race on this. I have no insider information. However, if this player is your DD, will you accept this situation with great understanding and same admiration of the coach who did this to your DD? Either someone was misleading the player that she would have a secure spot on the roster on the signing day , or the player wanted to take the risk even things might not work out for her. I can't imagine the player would not consider the back up until now with the situation of wait and see. Even with insider info from numerous sources it wouldn't change the main issue. The time frame! That tells you all you need to know about who is to blame here. And I have plenty of Insider info...it doesn't matter...all you need to know is the time frame and you would come to the same conclusion as anyone with insider info!
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Post by mastermind on Sept 21, 2017 16:14:05 GMT -5
I am glad VT provided a place to publize these information. Life changes and people change their minds. But we should treat each party with fairness, humility and respect. Volleyball is a small world, so reputation of coaches, players or parents travel far through modern social media.
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Post by sultanofswat on Sept 22, 2017 16:50:21 GMT -5
This isn't in direct response to you, but I guess to everyone asking the similar question. Just to play devil's advocate, perhaps TB wanted to see how his current group of younger outsides would do when they're playing in meaningful matches. I believe it can be hard to tell exactly what you have on the roster from what you see in spring. Players are different in spring than they are in the fall. Without knowing the whole story, if the communication was "I want to see what this roster looks like in the fall", then I'd say that's reasonable. If this was the case but wasn't' communicated, then there's an issue there. It would make sense on a "build your team" level to wait and see, but if not communicated, then one could raise a "professionalism" argument. All that being said, VT is known for the anonymous sources that "know what really happened" but really don't, so I take everything- good and bad- with a grain of salt. It just seems that this board is so quick to try to tear coaches down and that's a shame. A lot of times with misinformation. General statement, not just about Tom Black. I have no horse in the race on this. "I want to see what this roster looks like in the Fall" is NOT fair to the student-athlete. Come on, people. ...which is why I said "without knowing the whole story" and "If the communication was 'I want to see what the roster looks like in the fall'". For one, I wouldn't go for it, but if someone has their eyes set on a school, I could see them giving it a shot. Again- I'm throwing out a hypothetical.
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Post by sultanofswat on Sept 22, 2017 16:53:18 GMT -5
This isn't in direct response to you, but I guess to everyone asking the similar question. Just to play devil's advocate, perhaps TB wanted to see how his current group of younger outsides would do when they're playing in meaningful matches. I believe it can be hard to tell exactly what you have on the roster from what you see in spring. Players are different in spring than they are in the fall. Without knowing the whole story, if the communication was "I want to see what this roster looks like in the fall", then I'd say that's reasonable. If this was the case but wasn't' communicated, then there's an issue there. It would make sense on a "build your team" level to wait and see, but if not communicated, then one could raise a "professionalism" argument. All that being said, VT is known for the anonymous sources that "know what really happened" but really don't, so I take everything- good and bad- with a grain of salt. It just seems that this board is so quick to try to tear coaches down and that's a shame. A lot of times with misinformation. General statement, not just about Tom Black. I have no horse in the race on this. I have no insider information. However, if this player is your DD, will you accept this situation with great understanding and same admiration of the coach who did this to your DD? Either someone was misleading the player that she would have a secure spot on the roster on the signing day , or the player wanted to take the risk even things might not work out for her. I can't imagine the player would not consider the back up until now with the situation of wait and see. No, if this were my DD, I wouldn't because I know how to read between the lines having been highly involved in recruiting on many levels. But if this is someone brand spanking new to it and DD is in love with UGA...I could see it. People make terrible decisions in recruiting all the time.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Sept 22, 2017 17:38:11 GMT -5
I have no insider information. However, if this player is your DD, will you accept this situation with great understanding and same admiration of the coach who did this to your DD? Either someone was misleading the player that she would have a secure spot on the roster on the signing day , or the player wanted to take the risk even things might not work out for her. I can't imagine the player would not consider the back up until now with the situation of wait and see. No, if this were my DD, I wouldn't because I know how to read between the lines having been highly involved in recruiting on many levels. But if this is someone brand spanking new to it and DD is in love with UGA...I could see it. People make terrible decisions in recruiting all the time. So you're asking a student-athlete to read between the lines and just move on quietly without you having to actually be straightforward with her? The old "I'm going to string you along but treat you like crap so YOU have to break up with me and I don't have to be the bad guy" move? Very classy.
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Post by mastermind on Sept 22, 2017 17:41:39 GMT -5
I highly doubt the player or vbfamily who is the recruiting director would not be forming a backup plan when they knew there was a small chance of losing scholarship few months ago. Let I said, people change minds all the time. But in this case, the timeline just doesn't make sense for justification in your scenario.
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Post by vbfamily on Sept 22, 2017 20:32:20 GMT -5
This thread was created ONLY to let coaches know right away that this great kid and athlete is now looking for a new opportunity for her college career. We've had great response from many schools and I am certain we will find her a great college home that will be an ideal fit. I truly believe those involved feel badly and wished they had handled it differently...lessons learned... I've been around the game and recruiting for a long time as an athlete, a top 25 D1 coach, a club coach, a parent of an highly recruited athlete and obviously a recruiting director. So I've been on all sides and if I thought a back-up plan was needed, I certainly would have had the student-athlete and her family be prepared. But I guess lessons learned now on my side as well...
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Post by eldorado on Sept 22, 2017 22:35:40 GMT -5
She's lucky to be at a club with a great recruiting director! Good job 👍
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Post by c4ndlelight on Sept 22, 2017 22:59:16 GMT -5
So you're asking a student-athlete to read between the lines and just move on quietly without you having to actually be straightforward with her? The old "I'm going to string you along but treat you like crap so YOU have to break up with me and I don't have to be the bad guy" move? Very classy. Where did I say anything about asking the athlete to read between the lines? Some of you people on here...seriously. I said that ME PERSONALLY would know how coaches talk around this crap. If it actually is crap. Sorry for putting up a hypothetical that might actually defend a coach. Why is everyone so quick to assume coaches are out there to hurt kids and families? I mean, seriously. Coaches coach mostly to help kids grow and teach. They want good relationships. On the other hand, they are human. Again, I DON'T KNOW ANY DETAILS, but my point all along has been that y'all assume the worst of coaches without considering anything else. Maybe the story you read on this anonymous message board is complete @$$%*!*. Maybe it's false information put out by a rival school or fan. And y'all sheep just take it as gospel truth. Like I said before, I don't have a damn horse in this race and this is more UGA volleyball than I ever care to discuss. However, can I say dumb this down for you? IF this story is 100% true, I agree it's a crappy way to handle it. But something tells me that there are details being left out. This would take someone with clear intent on screwing a kid and I have a hard time believing that. Let me flip that back at you, why are you grasping at straws trying to come up with hypotheticals trying to defend a coach who has put a student-athlete in a terrible position?
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Post by sultanofswat on Sept 22, 2017 23:11:12 GMT -5
Where did I say anything about asking the athlete to read between the lines? Some of you people on here...seriously. I said that ME PERSONALLY would know how coaches talk around this crap. If it actually is crap. Sorry for putting up a hypothetical that might actually defend a coach. Why is everyone so quick to assume coaches are out there to hurt kids and families? I mean, seriously. Coaches coach mostly to help kids grow and teach. They want good relationships. On the other hand, they are human. Again, I DON'T KNOW ANY DETAILS, but my point all along has been that y'all assume the worst of coaches without considering anything else. Maybe the story you read on this anonymous message board is complete @$$%*!*. Maybe it's false information put out by a rival school or fan. And y'all sheep just take it as gospel truth. Like I said before, I don't have a damn horse in this race and this is more UGA volleyball than I ever care to discuss. However, can I say dumb this down for you? IF this story is 100% true, I agree it's a crappy way to handle it. But something tells me that there are details being left out. This would take someone with clear intent on screwing a kid and I have a hard time believing that. Let me flip that back at you, why are you grasping at straws trying to come up with hypotheticals trying to defend a coach who has put a student-athlete in a terrible position? I have to apologize. I came on too strong. I actually tried deleting after I re-read it hoping to avoid pissing someone off. I'm just tired of watching this board attack coaches. I've seen too many coaches get treated unfairly. Maybe this isn't the right thread to do this on. I'm a devil's advocate kinda guy, I guess and I like to assume the best in coaches.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Sept 23, 2017 9:06:15 GMT -5
This thread was created ONLY to let coaches know right away that this great kid and athlete is now looking for a new opportunity for her college career. We've had great response from many schools and I am certain we will find her a great college home that will be an ideal fit. I truly believe those involved feel badly and wished they had handled it differently...lessons learned... I've been around the game and recruiting for a long time as an athlete, a top 25 D1 coach, a club coach, a parent of an highly recruited athlete and obviously a recruiting director. So I've been on all sides and if I thought a back-up plan was needed, I certainly would have had the student-athlete and her family be prepared. But I guess lessons learned now on my side as well... I guess this an example of why vb coaches always compare the sport to life. You learn lessons, you adapt behavior, you learn more lessons, adapt more behavior, more lessons, more adaptation .... and then you realize you should have followed your God given instincts and ignored all those lessons! Good Luck to you and LW! From the TB side, I don't remember him having this reputation at LMU so maybe it can be chalked up to a rocky transition period but I completely understand the VT angst with the time period. As the OP stated she was just trying to facilitate a new home for a gifted player. Us VT detectives figured out who it was and then piled on. I don't think the OP intended that to happen. It will be fun to root LW on wherever she ends up! She's a baller!
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Post by gigibear on Sept 24, 2017 18:16:07 GMT -5
TB roster right now has 4 setters. I doubt he's concerned about adding a kid who might not play for the sake of the kid. There are 5 OH listed on the roster, one being a redshirt senior. They play the two freshman OH 6 rotations each. Only 1 recruit coming in 2018, a MB. So, next year they will go with 4 OH on the roster. Same number as the setters. Only 3 setters. One has zero stats for the year and isn't in any social media or even shown on the schedule poster. Starter is 6'2" and a 5-1 type. The two freshman are more 6-2 size. 5 OH's has really only been 2. Two appear to be injured or sick and RS senior has been playing OPP. 2018 has two former LMU recruits left in the class. One Middle and one OH. Both from SoCal! My impression is that he does care about "his" kids and their VB career path. But he has had some serious PR missteps in the transition. The jury is still out on him long term imho but I do not make any excuses for him on the time frame and handling of these transition decisions. It was absolutely handled wrong. Maybe Lanie will get a chance to thank him with that warm up shot under the bow!! ...at which time ask for a redshirt if you really want to be a part of the school/team. I imagine something else is going on. JMHO.
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Post by gigibear on Sept 24, 2017 18:33:02 GMT -5
Let me flip that back at you, why are you grasping at straws trying to come up with hypotheticals trying to defend a coach who has put a student-athlete in a terrible position? I have to apologize. I came on too strong. I actually tried deleting after I re-read it hoping to avoid pissing someone off. I'm just tired of watching this board attack coaches. I've seen too many coaches get treated unfairly. Maybe this isn't the right thread to do this on. I'm a devil's advocate kinda guy, I guess and I like to assume the best in coaches. I also play devil's advocate with my player/kid///look at things from a different perspective; sometimes it's just oil and water. There are terrible coaches out there either in ability/personality/character. I like to assume the best in coaches too....until they do some "yired" crap. Like teachers who want the job but hate kids. I don't want to hijack this thread on that front. After a couple years with her school, I'm close to suggesting my player to stop playing and invest her time in studying and other passions. While a great player, not going to be going to the Olympics. So..wishing the player of this thread all the best...
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