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Post by eazy on Feb 14, 2018 11:57:41 GMT -5
I said none of them and I mean it. None of them. Shirts on teen players at AAU Championships intending to start dramas is not good. Powers Barnhard could at the very least be accused of bad judgment. Suing the AAU when she was fully aware that Butler was going to be there is just disingenuous. I may be the only one that says it out loud but plenty of people agree with the sentiment. She chose to go there with her team(s), no one forced her into that situation. In the other case a sister who continues to play for Rick after her sister alleges he raped her. I'm not saying the Bonnie was wrong for continuing her volleyball career at SPRI but one has to question why she was allowed to play for Rick if their parents really truly believed he was a rapist. Because the story has SO many nuances and accusations and sides of the story maybe in this case the "victims" should be scrutinized more than just at whatever the current story is. The narrative pushed is one of Rick being a child molester but once anyone starts digging and reading into the story they come out going "WAIT. NOT THAT SIMPLE." There are just too many sides to this that are and forever will be unresolved. This isn't a simple cut and dry case and will never be. Allegations against Nassar, his groping and taking multiple girls a day into his private office to physically molest, girls as young as SIX. No emotional or financial attachments or issues--that's far more cut and dry then this huge mess. You have made some good points but, in my opinion are way off on others.
You are so worried about other girls at SP not getting punished for the actions of the rapist but apparently girls that play for Sarah do not get the same benefit. They should have skipped a huge tournament because she didn't want to face her rapist. How is that fair to those players.
Sarah is a hero for suing AAU and getting the fight back started. It was all about AAU abiding by the policy's they have in place.
The Tshirts were awesome and supported a victim in a time she needed it the most. If this was uncomfortable for girls and parents that go to a known rapist, tough sh-t. You made your choice.
I am highly offended by "the narrative pushed" comment. Butler is a child molester and it is that simple. VERY CUT AND DRY.
Is it true that Sarah’s team was playing a 15u Spri team and Rick was not even in Florida when it happened?
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Feb 14, 2018 12:03:33 GMT -5
Who has a hard on for who little man? Lol SAVE ... lolololol You got your lawsuit filed yet moron? How quaint you ass-ume I am a man. You never pointed out my question that you want me to answer. I feel it necessary to answer your SAVE remark as I have done several times to others. My at work computer browser for whatever reason puts that on every post. I have tried to fix that issue within the HTML or whatever board code but it still appears. But ok go ahead and make fun of a computer error that can't be helped because you are obviously the Professor of Wit. Excuse me while I go retrieve the eyeballs that just rolled out of their sockets. Lastly yes I do believe you have a big ole chubby for me as you think you're doing the board some great big favor by calling me out for some nonexistent bs you believe helps your perspective. Good luck with that. MagPervert: The question was in your original defense of the child molester (yes he is & yes you defend him). Google monkey yourself and look up your original post. You questioned the victims timing of coming forward. So have some balls (I know you have some pervert) and ask metoo that question. Ask all rape victims that question! And your “I’ve never defended RB” act is tired. That’s all you do is defend him. And he wasn’t 26 like your friends lover. He was well into his 30’s in some of the cases and he was their authority figure in all cases except for the new roommate daughter case. These cases and the intracacies of the story and the personalities have been rehashed a million times. I personally just feel for the victims (named and unnamed) and hope they find some closure. To your different era comments recently I would agree that their is some validity to that arguement and that is one of the reasons why it went unreported but people back then knew it was wrong. I have two good friends that played at SRPI and/or attended clinics and camps as teenagers back in this era. Listing to their stories will haunt you. I heard these stories about how RB acted around teenage girls 10 years before this thing make internet news. They didn’t tell me these stories because of threads on the internet or to get RB. They told me these stories (separately and initially years apart) as a warning for me to watch my daughters coaches and that it was ok to attend practice. That is why I am one of the social warriors on here talking about RB. As a warning to other parents that it can happen anywhere. These now VB Moms tell a frightening tale of his touching, patting, massaging and overall creepiness that he brought to the gym. Times may have changed from back then but even back then they knew it was wrong and live with the guilt of not doing more when the bigger stories came out. I pray for the victims and I have empathy for them because of these personal conversations I have had for a decade.
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Post by knowthetruth on Feb 14, 2018 12:04:50 GMT -5
I can't remember what age level, Rick was most definitely in FLA. There is a video interview to prove it. And Sarah was subjected to having to coach near her rapist.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Feb 14, 2018 12:06:10 GMT -5
You have made some good points but, in my opinion are way off on others.
You are so worried about other girls at SP not getting punished for the actions of the rapist but apparently girls that play for Sarah do not get the same benefit. They should have skipped a huge tournament because she didn't want to face her rapist. How is that fair to those players.
Sarah is a hero for suing AAU and getting the fight back started. It was all about AAU abiding by the policy's they have in place.
The Tshirts were awesome and supported a victim in a time she needed it the most. If this was uncomfortable for girls and parents that go to a known rapist, tough sh-t. You made your choice.
I am highly offended by "the narrative pushed" comment. Butler is a child molester and it is that simple. VERY CUT AND DRY.
Is it true that Sarah’s team was playing a 15u Spri team and Rick was not even in Florida when it happened? Not sure about that. I’ve seen Sarah and RB at AAU numerous times.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Feb 14, 2018 12:07:32 GMT -5
I can't remember what age level, Rick was most definitely in FLA. There is a video interview to prove it. And Sarah was subjected to having to coach against her rapist. I don’t think she actually had to coach against him (I could be wrong) but he was on the adjacent court and she could see and hear him.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Feb 14, 2018 12:28:28 GMT -5
I can't remember what age level, Rick was most definitely in FLA. There is a video interview to prove it. And Sarah was subjected to having to coach against her rapist. I don’t think she actually had to coach against him (I could be wrong) but he was on the adjacent court and she could see and hear him. I believe this is correct as well, they never actually played each other but were on adjacent courts. There were faceobok posts all over for anyone with the green shirts to surround the two courts that day/time. But they were most certainly in Florida and the convention center at the same time.
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Post by Wolfgang on Feb 14, 2018 12:35:16 GMT -5
I suspect that the reason why some of the "bigger" names in the volleyball world aren't so quick to support the Butler victims and publicly denounce Butler himself is because they were also a product of the 1970s/80s and perhaps they were involved in sexual molestations themselves, as predators. Now, they're just hoping and praying everything would go away else they themselves would be outed for their behavior. This is just a suspicion grounded in my bleak view of the world.
I spent my teens in North Carolina. I knew many who didn't even hesitate to use the "N" word. You speak to them these days and if you bring that up, they pretend not to remember or they change the subject. Some will even get angry and, in a threatening manner, declare that they never used the "N" word.
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Post by rainbowbadger on Feb 14, 2018 12:37:33 GMT -5
Rick Butler admitted to sleeping with SPRI athletes. His long-stated defenses is that "It was the 80's, things were different." The breach of coaching ethics alone should warrant a ban from USA Volleyball and preclude him from working with youth athletes. This is where I come down to it at the end of the day. He's a youth sports coach. Parents trust him with their daughters. He has a moral and ethical obligation to not abuse that position of power and have sexual/romantic relations with the players at his club. That alone should warrant a ban from coaching.
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Post by rainbowbadger on Feb 14, 2018 12:40:02 GMT -5
I suspect that the reason why some of the "bigger" names in the volleyball world aren't so quick to support the Butler victims and publicly denounce Butler himself is because they were also a product of the 1970s/80s and perhaps they were involved in sexual molestations themselves, as predators. Now, they're just hoping and praying everything would go away else they themselves would be outed for their behavior. This is just a suspicion grounded in my bleak view of the world. IDK if I'd go that far, but I will believe that they probably saw/heard/noticed something that felt off to them and chose to look the other way, or looking back on things realize that something they just disregarded is overtly not okay. Guilt and cognitive dissonance make it really hard to do the right thing a lot of the time, to come forward years later. It's easier to shame-hide or just put it out of your mind and keep doing what you're doing.
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Post by volleyguy on Feb 14, 2018 13:04:47 GMT -5
The issue of real importance here is whether or not the abuse happened. All of this back and forth about Kay's motivations as jilted lover or aggrieved business partner is, apart from bordering on sexist victimizing, is a sideshow and distraction that is typical and demonstrative of why this type of abuse has remained a persistent problem.
The other important thing is finding a modicum of justice for the actual victims and perhaps an opportunity for some redemption for the circle of people around the abuser or the abused who might feel some guilt or remorse for wittingly or unwittingly having enabled the abuse. I don't have any hope that Rick Butler will feel that remorse or will ever do the right thing, but all of this back and forth is distracting from the final piece of this puzzle that needs to be put in place: ensuring that Butler's reach and influence and existence in the realm of club volleyball in particular ends as soon as possible. The battle isn't over.
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Post by midwestvb1 on Feb 14, 2018 13:17:59 GMT -5
I can't remember what age level, Rick was most definitely in FLA. There is a video interview to prove it. And Sarah was subjected to having to coach against her rapist. Fake News Rick was definitely not in Florida at that time. 18 open had not started yet and was not on the bench of the 15s SPVB team during that match. But please, tell us about how Sarah’s following had 10-15 year old kids from opposing clubs wear the shirts and were told to just go stand around Rick and Cheryl with no knowing why. Or how they told a coach who didn’t speak English very well that the shirts were for breast cancer awareness just so he would get his team to wear the shirts.
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Feb 14, 2018 13:27:02 GMT -5
I had to go back in my camera roll to see what the shirts said. They were green or teal and on the front it said "I stand with them" and on the back: "Ask me why". Camera images were blurry because of walking while taking them but nonetheless I'm pretty sure that's right.
Many a parent was shaking their heads at the bringing in young women & girls into a sex drama that had no place to be in the awareness of children who may not even know what sex is yet. Poor judgment to further notch up the supposed "awareness". The comments that were made varied from pity to outrage to pure shock and the aforementioned head shaking.
On the flipside of my argument do I believe that it could've been used as an impetus to conversation on inappropriate conduct by adults and other children? Yes. However the ASK ME WHY bothered many of us. What did they expect a child of 11 or 12 to say to this question?
As for Rick being there or not I assumed he wasn't because 18's weren't there yet. I could be wrong, never saw the alleged interview but if it was at GLC like some have said then that could be easily proven if one could find the footage.
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Feb 14, 2018 13:35:31 GMT -5
How quaint you ass-ume I am a man. You never pointed out my question that you want me to answer. I feel it necessary to answer your SAVE remark as I have done several times to others. My at work computer browser for whatever reason puts that on every post. I have tried to fix that issue within the HTML or whatever board code but it still appears. But ok go ahead and make fun of a computer error that can't be helped because you are obviously the Professor of Wit. Excuse me while I go retrieve the eyeballs that just rolled out of their sockets. Lastly yes I do believe you have a big ole chubby for me as you think you're doing the board some great big favor by calling me out for some nonexistent bs you believe helps your perspective. Good luck with that. MagPervert: The question was in your original defense of the child molester (yes he is & yes you defend him). Google monkey yourself and look up your original post. You questioned the victims timing of coming forward. So have some balls (I know you have some pervert) and ask metoo that question. Ask all rape victims that question! And your “I’ve never defended RB” act is tired. That’s all you do is defend him. And he wasn’t 26 like your friends lover. He was well into his 30’s in some of the cases and he was their authority figure in all cases except for the new roommate daughter case. These cases and the intracacies of the story and the personalities have been rehashed a million times. I personally just feel for the victims (named and unnamed) and hope they find some closure. To your different era comments recently I would agree that their is some validity to that arguement and that is one of the reasons why it went unreported but people back then knew it was wrong. I have two good friends that played at SRPI and/or attended clinics and camps as teenagers back in this era. Listing to their stories will haunt you. I heard these stories about how RB acted around teenage girls 10 years before this thing make internet news. They didn’t tell me these stories because of threads on the internet or to get RB. They told me these stories (separately and initially years apart) as a warning for me to watch my daughters coaches and that it was ok to attend practice. That is why I am one of the social warriors on here talking about RB. As a warning to other parents that it can happen anywhere. These now VB Moms tell a frightening tale of his touching, patting, massaging and overall creepiness that he brought to the gym. Times may have changed from back then but even back then they knew it was wrong and live with the guilt of not doing more when the bigger stories came out. I pray for the victims and I have empathy for them because of these personal conversations I have had for a decade. It's yours and metoos to pull up and ask as I mentioned before, if you can't find the original and quote it to me as I said then I have no option but to ignore your query. I have no patience for people who pull others back into drama days after (WEEKS after in this case) the fact and are lazy incompetents that like to say stuff like "Google Monkey" in every other post. Google monkey it yourself if you want me to post the stupid question(s). For someone so unbelievably eloquent you sure are dense Professor Prune.
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Post by Hawk Attack on Feb 14, 2018 13:54:21 GMT -5
I don’t think she actually had to coach against him (I could be wrong) but he was on the adjacent court and she could see and hear him. I believe this is correct as well, they never actually played each other but were on adjacent courts. There were faceobok posts all over for anyone with the green shirts to surround the two courts that day/time. But they were most certainly in Florida and the convention center at the same time. That is not true. SPB’s team finished on the 22nd, and SPVB 18 Elite did not begin play until the 23rd.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Feb 14, 2018 14:02:36 GMT -5
MagPervert: The question was in your original defense of the child molester (yes he is & yes you defend him). Google monkey yourself and look up your original post. You questioned the victims timing of coming forward. So have some balls (I know you have some pervert) and ask metoo that question. Ask all rape victims that question! And your “I’ve never defended RB” act is tired. That’s all you do is defend him. And he wasn’t 26 like your friends lover. He was well into his 30’s in some of the cases and he was their authority figure in all cases except for the new roommate daughter case. These cases and the intracacies of the story and the personalities have been rehashed a million times. I personally just feel for the victims (named and unnamed) and hope they find some closure. To your different era comments recently I would agree that their is some validity to that arguement and that is one of the reasons why it went unreported but people back then knew it was wrong. I have two good friends that played at SRPI and/or attended clinics and camps as teenagers back in this era. Listing to their stories will haunt you. I heard these stories about how RB acted around teenage girls 10 years before this thing make internet news. They didn’t tell me these stories because of threads on the internet or to get RB. They told me these stories (separately and initially years apart) as a warning for me to watch my daughters coaches and that it was ok to attend practice. That is why I am one of the social warriors on here talking about RB. As a warning to other parents that it can happen anywhere. These now VB Moms tell a frightening tale of his touching, patting, massaging and overall creepiness that he brought to the gym. Times may have changed from back then but even back then they knew it was wrong and live with the guilt of not doing more when the bigger stories came out. I pray for the victims and I have empathy for them because of these personal conversations I have had for a decade. It's yours and metoos to pull up and ask as I mentioned before, if you can't find the original and quote it to me as I said then I have no ooption but to ignore your query. I have no patience for people who pull others back into drama days after (WEEKS after in this case) the fact and are lazy incompetents that like to say stuff like "Google Monkey" in every other post. Google monkey it yourself if you want me to post the stupid question(s). For someone so unbelievably eloquent you sure are dense Professor Prune. It was simple. And a victim of these molestations asked you specifically what your question was. I clarified that the question you asked was “that you and others had questions about the timing of the victims coming out with their accusations”. You asked it. I called you out on it back then and you have continually ducked ownership, deflected and are afraid to ask it now because it shows your lack of empathy for these victims (and all rape victims) and your 100% support of RB. You can call me names all you want but I don’t duck what I am. And that is a poster 100% against RB and 100% in support of the victims. I don’t waffle from that or deflect or rationalize.
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