|
Post by bigfan on Dec 21, 2017 13:07:18 GMT -5
KWJ somehow may be able to get financing from the huge money floating around the bay area from the high tech crowd.................... a few of these young technocrats love volleyball. From what Iβm hearing, there is another huge investor other than LA, also with deep pockets involved in this venture....Rumour has it this person is worth more than Donald Sun.....Interesting π€π€ I love KWJ, this is what she has done............................just speculation but I bet she has gotten somebody to under-write her tour and if it flies after a couple of years she forces a merger with the AVP and becomes the commissioner of the entire thing with SUN forced OUT. KWJ is a GENIUS.
|
|
|
Walsh tour
Dec 21, 2017 13:26:36 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by donnyw on Dec 21, 2017 13:26:36 GMT -5
From what Iβm hearing, there is another huge investor other than LA, also with deep pockets involved in this venture....Rumour has it this person is worth more than Donald Sun.....Interesting π€π€ I love KWJ, this is what she has done............................just speculation but I bet she has gotten somebody to under-write her tour and if it flies after a couple of years she forces a merger with the AVP and becomes the commissioner of the entire thing with SUN forced OUT. KWJ is a GENIUS. You seem a little nervous that Kerri & her team could actually pull this off...Stop hating & letβs be positive that Beach VB will be great again!!! ππ
|
|
|
Post by haze on Dec 21, 2017 14:32:34 GMT -5
I love KWJ, this is what she has done............................just speculation but I bet she has gotten somebody to under-write her tour and if it flies after a couple of years she forces a merger with the AVP and becomes the commissioner of the entire thing with SUN forced OUT. KWJ is a GENIUS. You seem a little nervous that Kerri & her team could actually pull this off...Stop hating & letβs be positive that Beach VB will be great again!!! ππ They may pull it off, but I don't really see it impacting the AVP at all. I can see a situation where both tours flourish and younger kids coming up go through the ranks of the Walsh tour and move over to the AVP when they are ready. Will be good for both tours and the sport alone.
|
|
|
Post by bigfan on Dec 21, 2017 15:55:48 GMT -5
I love KWJ, this is what she has done............................just speculation but I bet she has gotten somebody to under-write her tour and if it flies after a couple of years she forces a merger with the AVP and becomes the commissioner of the entire thing with SUN forced OUT. KWJ is a GENIUS. You seem a little nervous that Kerri & her team could actually pull this off...Stop hating & letβs be positive that Beach VB will be great again!!! ππ You have your head up your ... where I have been negative? I hope she does pull this off..................it would be huge plus for beach game and KWJ an entry into politics. Dare I say KJW 2028 for PRESIDENT OF THE USA?
|
|
|
Post by bigfan on Dec 21, 2017 15:57:48 GMT -5
Will be good for both tours and the sport alone. You are PREACHING to the CHOIR. SAY IT!
|
|
|
Post by acemand23 on Dec 21, 2017 18:05:10 GMT -5
People need to stop saying we do not have enough talent in the field to support 2 tours. The sport is only know by less than 1% of this country, so nobody outside of a select few would even know the difference... You will get plenty of talent at any event you throw, what we need is marketing of the sport, which, IMO, AVP has done a piss poor job of. I was at MBO this year, and there were people walking down Manhattan beach blvd asking the store attendant what was going on at the beach, and they were not sure.. I had to tell them.. Right now, beach volleyball is in a rapid state of growth, and it needs to get peoples attention... the AVP is being supported by the current fans (i think half of which read this message board) and the players who want to get in..
Right now, our sport needs options and press, both of which KWJ brings to the table..
and we are correct to say there are not enough sponsors to support 1 tour, let alone 2,... but that is the problem... we need more exposure, and more sponsors.. I dont care if all the tours fail trying to make the sport popular.. eventually, if it gets enough eye balls watching, we will get a tour that will have the money to supoort the talent...
|
|
|
Post by slackerdad on Dec 21, 2017 20:47:30 GMT -5
If the NCAA's consideration of allowing athletes to accept prize money to cover their travel and entry fee comes to fruition, then I could see where you could get a lot of satellite tournaments with small purses, ie $1,000, that would attract very good collegiate and junior players who haven't yet signed the AVP contract. KWJ could brand these and instantly have AVP qualifier- or CBVA open-level competition. It may not attract many spectators or national broadcasts, but you could probably procure local sponsors to cover the prize money and expenses and you could stream the events on Flo TV or other similar crowd-sourced, ipad-streaming.
It'd be even better if they follow NCAA Tennis' lead that allows players to earn up to $10k/yr in prize money. I think you'd see a lot more colleges start beach programs because they wouldn't even need to fund scholarships or pay for travel. They'd just need to hire a beach coach. Heck, beach players are used to playing without coaches, so you really don't even need a real coach.
If anyone knows the economics of junior tennis tournaments and who is ponying up prize money for an tournament that isn't televised, I'd love to hear how that works. I can't imagine gate receipts are significant. Is it all Nike, Adidas sponsor driven?
|
|
|
Post by johnbar on Dec 21, 2017 21:42:44 GMT -5
A lot of the college teams are not AVP qualifier level. More like CBVA A or B level. Other than fans of a particular school, how much of an audience are you going to attract with that level of competition?
|
|
|
Post by slackerdad on Dec 21, 2017 22:01:18 GMT -5
A lot of the college teams are not AVP qualifier level. More like CBVA A or B level. Other than fans of a particular school, how much of an audience are you going to attract with that level of competition? If you are talking about the lower tier programs, juco or DII or DIII programs, perhaps they have A-rated players. But to crack the roster of a top-8 team, you have to be playing at a CBVA AAA level. I'd be shocked if any of the top 15 teams have any A level players contributing. UCLA, for example, has several AAA-rated players who won't see the court this year.
|
|
|
Post by johnbar on Dec 21, 2017 23:19:51 GMT -5
A lot of the college teams are not AVP qualifier level. More like CBVA A or B level. Other than fans of a particular school, how much of an audience are you going to attract with that level of competition? If you are talking about the lower tier programs, juco or DII or DIII programs, perhaps they have A-rated players. But to crack the roster of a top-8 team, you have to be playing at a CBVA AAA level. I'd be shocked if any of the top 15 teams have any A level players contributing. UCLA, for example, has several AAA-rated players who won't see the court this year. There is a big range between juco/DII/DIII and UCLA. Perhaps you have been watching the better college teams, and UCLA is certainly one of them. Now you say "top-8 team", and there you are probably correct. But that's a pretty small pool to start drawing your talent from, considering there are something like 70 colleges sponsoring BVB. I have mostly seen NorCal teams; they have some very fine players, but after the top one or two pairs, the field drops off quickly. The SoCal colleges clearly have more talent when it comes to BVB. However:
Rereading your earlier post now, I see I missed where you said "It may not attract many spectators or national broadcasts, but you could probably procure local sponsors...". This is the point I was trying to make, so we are in agreement here. Of course, there are other of existing local/regional tours who put on amateur/semi-pro events at this level (like the CBVA). But that's not competing with the AVP, which is what some of the other posters have been talking about. At best, its competing with the AVPNext. Expanding opportunities for athletes is great. But if KWJ wants to put on a competing professional tour, she'll have to do better than recruiting juniors and college players. But maybe that's not her intent. We're pouring a mountain of speculation on top of a molehill of facts.
|
|
|
Post by beavis on Dec 22, 2017 3:43:46 GMT -5
DonnyW - love your enthusiasm and support of Kerri, but your statement that she tried several times to work things out with Mr. Sun and was shunned is simply incorrect. If anything, it was exactly the other way - he clearly reached out to her and Kerri was non-responsive. Just saying!
|
|
|
Post by earlkoppelman on Dec 22, 2017 4:05:40 GMT -5
DonnyW - love your enthusiasm and support of Kerri, but your statement that she tried several times to work things out with Mr. Sun and was shunned is simply incorrect. If anything, it was exactly the other way - he clearly reached out to her and Kerri was non-responsive. Just saying! BOTH HAVE TO TALK.VERY IMPORTANT FOR PROGRESS NO?
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Dec 22, 2017 12:06:45 GMT -5
Boy, Volleytalkers can construct a tour on the basis of "in lieu of another word you could call it a tour". That is the only fact we seem to know at this point on the content, so if you base your summation on KW's owns words, this probably is not a tour but an exhibition. As someone said above, most NCAA players DO look like A-AA women players (Now, watching Hawaii play in Santa Cruz, THEY are a "bit" different! AAA+. This will be an interesting facet of our sport, but PLEASE, there already IS a domestic tour and if 8 stops is not enough, see what the NVL was able to muster (bless their hearts). Sun knew that AVP logo was like the Coca Cola brand to so many (it was funny, AFTER the demise, many didn't even know the tour folded!). If you don't see growth in the AVP, then you need to look back to 2010 and "follow the money"...Manhattan was MONSTROUS in volleyball terms. I was overwhelmed walking through the village and fans and "trying" to get a seat for the finals. I know Leonard pulled off the WSBVB in Long Beach for 4 years, but that kinna floundered last year (from what I heard) and the FIVB was all over that event. AND don't forget the volatility of the FIVB (again, from what I've heard and read) losing SWATCH and the like. Anyway, we can take the words of Rodney King "Can't we all get along"? We'll have to wait and see on the KW "tour", but I'm booking flights and hotels for the AVP as we speak.
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Dec 22, 2017 13:07:55 GMT -5
Boy, Volleytalkers can construct a tour on the basis of "in lieu of another word you could call it a tour". That is the only fact we seem to know at this point on the content, so if you base your summation on KW's owns words, this probably is not a tour but an exhibition. As someone said above, most NCAA players DO look like A-AA women players (Now, watching Hawaii play in Santa Cruz, THEY are a "bit" different! AAA+. This will be an interesting facet of our sport, but PLEASE, there already IS a domestic tour and if 8 stops is not enough, see what the NVL was able to muster (bless their hearts). Sun knew that AVP logo was like the Coca Cola brand to so many (it was funny, AFTER the demise, many didn't even know the tour folded!). If you don't see growth in the AVP, then you need to look back to 2010 and "follow the money"...Manhattan was MONSTROUS in volleyball terms. I was overwhelmed walking through the village and fans and "trying" to get a seat for the finals. I know Leonard pulled off the WSBVB in Long Beach for 4 years, but that kinna floundered last year (from what I heard) and the FIVB was all over that event. AND don't forget the volatility of the FIVB (again, from what I've heard and read) losing SWATCH and the like. Anyway, we can take the words of Rodney King "Can't we all get along"? We'll have to wait and see on the KW "tour", but I'm booking flights and hotels for the AVP as we speak. I love the enthusiasm but this is the definition of shading facts. Every business shows massive growth if you consider the time before they started operations. But Donald's first full season was 2013 with 7 events. Now there are 8. At the same time you laud Manhattan, you dismiss the WSOBV, which sure seems like it has been a bigger and better event for the last several years. To address another point pretty consistently raised, quality of play is largely irrelevant on the men's side as regard a second tour. Shane Donaue/Andre Dentler playing Skyler Delsol/Dave Palm is indistinguishable from all but the highest level of AVP for casual fans. Athletic plays are made, great digs, big bounces etc. On the women's side, which most have been addressing with this college player stuff, that is not the case at all. On the women's side there is a massive drop off in athleticism once you get past a few players. Kendra Van Zwieten couldn't bounce a ball five feet off the sand and she won a tournament. Lauren Fendrick, who is a top 10 player looks like she couldn't run a 100 in 15 seconds. Going another step down and assuming casual fans will be fine with that doesn't make sense on the women's side. Watch an AVP women's match not involving April Ross or Sara Hughes in heavy wind and it can get very ugly very fast. If Kerri is banking on women's players not currently on the AVP, then she had better be prepare to wait several years before she can field an attractive product
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Dec 22, 2017 13:24:41 GMT -5
guest2: Well, you have a better grip on the data, so I acquiesce there. Now for 7 events, that metric has to be tempered with "substance". Many events didn't even have a grandstand (sponsors LIKE that). No event during those early years even came CLOSE to Manhattan 2017. The villages? Hardly existed. Now that is pretty low level critique, but WSOBV was pretty much a FIVB thing, not a derived "tour", so I accept your last paragraph on KW's proposal.
Comparing businesses and growth is probably unfair in this "new age" of beach volleyball. Not being profitable since 1998 is kinna key. If you never made money, what "growth" was occurring in those years? If those players you mention are "indistinguishable", you haven't sat in the stands and watched "the same old" teams move up and the others move on to the contenders bracket...it IS distinguishable, IMHO....BUT I get it, its all really good play and you are COMPLETELY correct there (I wish there were MORE exhibitions! A gal from SF organized the Ty's to come to Santa Cruz a couple of months ago and it was FABULOUS. Fun watching an exhibition match with some of our locals". THAT, IMO, is how you get the players in front of the fans! Don't wait till May-Aug, put them all over the beach maps and FACEBOOK those matches to death!
I will have to confess to more "enthusiasm" than "fact" as being here in Nor. Cal., a couple of events a year does not a analyst make, so keep up your good work on this forum & glad to see your posts.
|
|