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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Feb 11, 2018 10:02:35 GMT -5
If the goal of Rankings is to provide accurate national tournament seeding, the rankings should only give so many participation points and should be capped at around 3 local events.
It is common for regular local Beach events throughout the US to not involve any of the top 20 players in the US. Players have not defeated any of these top players, yet they will move ahead of them in the rankings with enough local participation ribbons.
In addition to capping points from events that have no known elite players, another way this can be accomplished is for USA Volleyball to certify certain known players and in order to pass them on points, you have to defeat one of them.
Said another way, earning points can only occur if someone in the event has more points than you and you finish higher than they do.
For example, in 18s boys, the recent U19 trials may allow a manual reset with Schwengel, Brewster, Partain, etc.. at the top and Players can't move ahead of any of them unless they actually defeat one of them. Once you have reached your cap on participation points, no more points are earned unless you can defeat one of the players above you or finish higher than them in the event.
Points would not be limited at some large designated zonal or national events, where 10 to 40 teams may finish below the level to earn additional points and a reasonably competitive field exists.
Please provide your ideas.
If the goal is to make this accurate, let's fix the logic and make it work.
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Post by rainmaker on Feb 12, 2018 7:23:13 GMT -5
The only flaw I see is if I'm a high ranked player, just take a lot of tournaments off, I would never be "passed".
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Feb 12, 2018 8:13:25 GMT -5
You can be passed because players defeat a different player. If you were 10th and they defeat 6, 7, 8, or 9 they are still getting points and going past you as well.
If they play nationals or A2 camp or some large event, they are getting points to pass you.
When you have the beach volleyball bug, you play.
This can address the issue of volume over quality points. Why create a seed that is not accurate?
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mati
Sophomore
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Post by mati on Feb 12, 2018 15:02:47 GMT -5
My initial thought is that a player from Ohio would never be able to break into the top ranks without going to California. The top players are in California for obvious reassons, but we are in the process of watching the game become more National. I like the concept, but would want to see some requirement that top players are required to play outside of their home zone to maintain their ranking. This would spread the cost of being a high level player more fairly across the country instead of having the players from non-traditional climates have to bear the full expense of travel.
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Feb 12, 2018 15:31:01 GMT -5
All valid points. As someone who is making the trip to Hermosa for the third time this summer, I can confirm that it doesn't work in the other direction yet. In the rest of the country, we can barely get equal partners together without traveling 3 hours. As a remote player, we want to travel to paradise and play 20 top teams instead of travel a long distance to hell and maybe play one.
The needle is starting to move, but other than Florida, there is no other hub to meet. This scenario applies to all ages, if you want to compete at the top of the beach volleyball world, you have to put in the time in Manhattan Beach, Hermosa, etc.. What you are saying makes some sense, but you have to appreciate that it is a perfect 78 degrees everyday out there and combined with the spacious deep sand and almost infinite players at your level, there is a reason we all show up in Southbay. I don't want them to come play us in 100 degrees or 40 degrees in the rain, I want them to be better hosts and keep welcoming us to their paradise.
It is not just US players, as it is the Mecca for players from all over the world.
No way you can force them to travel unless it is for HP Beach Championships and I would not want that moved anywhere else unless you could put it indoors and there are no 30 court indoor facilities I know in the US. I was out there for 60 days last year and we had a few drops, not days, just drops of rain. The top players travel every year for indoor nationals and HP Indoor, but never going to happen for Beach and us top players from less than paradise do not want them to go anywhere else.
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Feb 12, 2018 15:57:44 GMT -5
Thought of a funnier way of saying it. Like making the top US surfers come to Maine, Iditarod dog teams head for New Mexico, Mountain Bikers compete in Louisiana, and soccer and baseball teams all head for Montana. Yes, we can find some facilities and some weather that will technically support the sport, but it is not the real thing and no one would consider it to be acceptable for the top athletes. Feel free to add more funny examples, as some sports or activities are intertwined with the facilities, location, and weather.
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Feb 12, 2018 16:26:25 GMT -5
If I picked a top 10 for U15, I would get players in Hawaii, Nashville, Riverside, Dallas, San Diego, Knoxville, Orange County, Manhattan Beach, Virginia Beach,and Houston. Even three of the locals have to commute and get hotels for SouthBay, but there is no better solution for a distant place that would provide the same quality. CBVA hosts nearly daily competitions that can add on to any trip for Beach Volleyball and you can tap into the dozen possible partners within 10 miles that are in the same general skill level.
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mati
Sophomore
Posts: 125
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Post by mati on Feb 13, 2018 11:51:22 GMT -5
All valid points. As someone who is making the trip to Hermosa for the third time this summer, I can confirm that it doesn't work in the other direction yet. In the rest of the country, we can barely get equal partners together without traveling 3 hours. As a remote player, we want to travel to paradise and play 20 top teams instead of travel a long distance to hell and maybe play one. The needle is starting to move, but other than Florida, there is no other hub to meet. This scenario applies to all ages, if you want to compete at the top of the beach volleyball world, you have to put in the time in Manhattan Beach, Hermosa, etc.. What you are saying makes some sense, but you have to appreciate that it is a perfect 78 degrees everyday out there and combined with the spacious deep sand and almost infinite players at your level, there is a reason we all show up in Southbay. I don't want them to come play us in 100 degrees or 40 degrees in the rain, I want them to be better hosts and keep welcoming us to their paradise. It is not just US players, as it is the Mecca for players from all over the world. No way you can force them to travel unless it is for HP Beach Championships and I would not want that moved anywhere else unless you could put it indoors and there are no 30 court indoor facilities I know in the US. I was out there for 60 days last year and we had a few drops, not days, just drops of rain. The top players travel every year for indoor nationals and HP Indoor, but never going to happen for Beach and us top players from less than paradise do not want them to go anywhere else. We travel to LA for the best beach competition as well and it is magic. It does however severely limit the athletes who have the ability to reach that level. What this creates is a situation where the top athletes from New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Denver, etc. have no exposure to the top levels of the game without spending thousands of dollars (hotel rooms in South Bay are expensive in July) to go compete. Our top athletes from the Pacific Northwest are pretty much moving to LA for the month of July. This means that during the core of our sunny season, our best athletes are not here to set the competitive bar that the rest of the community is reaching for. Some have said that holds back the development of our beach community as a whole. It is however a great deal for the families that can afford to do it. Dog Sledding, and surfing are not national sports in the United States. They are niches and most of the people participating, aside from the ones we see on TV, work second jobs to pay their bills. They are hobbies. That is the path we are trying to avoid with Beach Volleyball. Top baseball prospects do have to go to Montana. There are A and perhaps even AA franchises there. Baseball has a national footprint supported by the professional ranks. |
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Feb 13, 2018 19:08:17 GMT -5
Speaking of infrastructure to support beach volleyball. If you could take out the Sea Sprite in Hermosa and build a modern budget place that is 10 times larger and discounted for or reserved only for Beach Volleyball players at certain times - that alone could advance beach volleyball in the US. Hermosa residents would scream,NIMBY,but it would be a fun USA Volleyball Project to advance the sport and have a place to suppprt beach athletes. Or, go find a wide SoCal beach somewhere and create a gigantic and more cost efficient meeting place. It would be another Hickory Point, but closer to civilization, with perfect weather, and No mosquitos.
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