|
Post by noreaster on May 14, 2018 11:15:51 GMT -5
Thanks to SHHH for getting people straight on what I meant... sorry about that.
Yes, if we were trying to play the best 6-8 players and build a system around them, what would that look like and how would it compare to what we have now? The obvious answer is (was? haven't followed her in a while) Destinee and her high ball. Someone mentioned Fawcette - so she would be an OH?
What else?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 13:04:20 GMT -5
What about my screen name? The fact it was named after a former USA coach? It was? As for my username, haha, it is name for spiking yes, but I never said it associates with a specific nationality. The fact it is the nickname for Lang is pure coincidence.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 13:14:37 GMT -5
Wrong. He developed the hell out of Glass, Hodge, Larson, Akinradewo, and Hooker, and nearly all of those athletes were or went on to be one of the best players in the world at their position, if not THE best. Fawcett was training for his entire quad too, and making rosters. Adams, Gibbemeyer, Lloyd, and Banwarth trained in Hugh's gym for two years (Gibby even made rosters in 2012 too) before going on to play for Karch. Harmotto became an Olympian after training for the entire quad and never making a single big-time roster until right before London. Berg became one of the best setters in the world under Hugh. Larson was a top 5 OH by 2012. Hooker was, arguably, the best player in the world then. He made Miyashiro into an Olympian ffs. Courtney Thompson...? Those are just the big names. Can't forget about Pressey, Hildebrand, Barboza, Spicer, Burdine, Paolini, Crimes, Klineman, or Hagglund either. The best thing about Hugh was the value that he saw in the veteran players from Lang Ping's tenure. Bown, DSA, K. Glass, Berg, Haneef-Park, Davis, Metcalf, Tom, Tamas, Sykora, and Nnamani all played big roles in Hugh's gym throughout the quad. Karch cut nearly every single one of those veteran players in his first year. Most of those players yout mentioned started to play on the national team under the coaching of no less a person than Lang Ping. Barboza, for instance, started to play on the NT when she was still in high school when Yoshida was still the head coach. qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/lang-ping-coached-us-1-e1471849777654.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=2318goldsea.com/803/19jenny2.jpgA picture from 2008 means nothing. They were in the gym for a camp. It doesn't mean they were training every day, making rosters, and developing. Hugh gets credit for those athletes.
|
|
|
Post by vup on May 14, 2018 13:38:40 GMT -5
Random question ...for those lincoln residents ...I’ll be visiting to attend the games..is there anywhere around lincoln to play some quality pick up sand or grass Vball? I don't even know, and I live here. I know Spikes is good, but I don't know if they have pick-up. There's a lot of pick-up on campus during the spring semester. Not sure about right now, but you could check out the courts by Cather-Pound or The Village ( UNL map)
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on May 14, 2018 14:37:09 GMT -5
A picture from 2008 means nothing. They were in the gym for a camp. It doesn't mean they were training every day, making rosters, and developing. Hugh gets credit for those athletes. I understand what you are saying, but I do think it's a little more complex than simply giving Hugh credit for those players. Berg played in the USPV and her Minnesota team won the title (Hambly was an assistant). Berg was a good player long before Hugh was involved (and it wasn't due to Hambly). This is definitely an oversimplification, but I would describe the most significant aspect of each NT Head Coach as follows: Mick Haley: All Show. Toshi Yoshida: Technique. This includes the final two years of Mick's tenure when he basically ceded the training to his coaching staff. Lang Ping: Tactics and Strategy Hugh McCutcheon: Systems and Processes Karch Kiraly: ?? The jury is still out. It's quite possible to argue that the strengths and priorities of each of these allowed for some continuity, either intentionally or unintentionally. But in some ways, what Karch has emphasized, particularly culture change and an obsession with winning Olympic Gold with the women's team, is an implicit criticism of the past.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 14:52:32 GMT -5
A picture from 2008 means nothing. They were in the gym for a camp. It doesn't mean they were training every day, making rosters, and developing. Hugh gets credit for those athletes. I understand what you are saying, but I do think it's a little more complex than simply giving Hugh credit for those players. Berg played in the USPV and her Minnesota team won the title (Hambly was an assistant). Berg was a good player long before Hugh was involved (and it wasn't due to Hambly). For sure more complex, but Berg became one of the best setters in the world while playing for Hugh despite being 5'8" on a good day, not being the most athletic setter we had, and traveling to Europe regularly for treatment on her knees. She was a big reason why USA was so dominant in 2011-12 IMO. She didn't get enough credit for how good she was and I think she blossomed under Hugh.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 15:00:43 GMT -5
We aren't the second-best team in the world. Probably not but let’s see what happens this summer. ...I'm not suggesting we cancel the tournament.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 15:00:46 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying, but I do think it's a little more complex than simply giving Hugh credit for those players. Berg played in the USPV and her Minnesota team won the title (Hambly was an assistant). Berg was a good player long before Hugh was involved (and it wasn't due to Hambly). For sure more complex, but Berg became one of the best setters in the world while playing for Hugh despite being 5'8" on a good day, not being the most athletic setter we had, and traveling to Europe regularly for treatment on her knees. She was a big reason why USA was so dominant in 2011-12 IMO. She didn't get enough credit for how good she was and I think she blossomed under Hugh. They were so dominant? Which tournaments did they win? 4th WCH 2nd WC 2nd OG.... only tournament they won - Grand Prix . And Brazil and USA was always the only 2 teams sending A team, Russia and Italy were always playing with a mix of players. China/Serbia/Netherlands were not even good back then. It was basically only USA vs Brazil...but still they did not manage to win anything as Russia won the WCH, Italy WC and Brazil OG. But finally in 2014 they won something.
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on May 14, 2018 15:04:57 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying, but I do think it's a little more complex than simply giving Hugh credit for those players. Berg played in the USPV and her Minnesota team won the title (Hambly was an assistant). Berg was a good player long before Hugh was involved (and it wasn't due to Hambly). For sure more complex, but Berg became one of the best setters in the world while playing for Hugh despite being 5'8" on a good day, not being the most athletic setter we had, and traveling to Europe regularly for treatment on her knees. She was a big reason why USA was so dominant in 2011-12 IMO. She didn't get enough credit for how good she was and I think she blossomed under Hugh. Yes, absolutely. Although I consider Ah Mow Santos as the better setter, I think that Berg might have been a better setter (than Robyn) in Hugh's environment. But that seems to me a normal part of the natural continuum with successive coaches.
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on May 14, 2018 15:06:55 GMT -5
For sure more complex, but Berg became one of the best setters in the world while playing for Hugh despite being 5'8" on a good day, not being the most athletic setter we had, and traveling to Europe regularly for treatment on her knees. She was a big reason why USA was so dominant in 2011-12 IMO. She didn't get enough credit for how good she was and I think she blossomed under Hugh. They were so dominant? Which tournaments did they win? 4th WCH 2nd WC 2nd OG.... only tournament they won - Grand Prix . And Brazil and USA was always the only 2 teams sending A team, Russia and Italy were always playing with a mix of players. China/Serbia/Netherlands were not even good back then. It was basically only USA vs Brazil...but still they did not manage to win anything as Russia won the WCH, Italy WC and Brazil OG. But finally in 2014 they won something. Silver is our Gold. Get off our back.
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on May 14, 2018 18:59:53 GMT -5
What about my screen name? The fact it was named after a former USA coach? It was? As for my username, haha, it is name for spiking yes, but I never said it associates with a specific nationality. The fact it is the nickname for Lang is pure coincidence. Oh what's the matter, I thought you said you are ignoring me? Can't resist responding, now are you? Who is lying now? Lying? I am toying with you. My username is my username. It is named after a spike. It can be named after a certain someone. It's all a matter of interpretation. Fact is, it really doesn't matter to me all that much why it is name after that. What is more important is that I am doing this to bait you. Putting a bait out there and see what vermin I can catch. And bingo: So predictable. Like a moth coming to the flame. Pot calling the kettle black. Putting me on my ignore list? And responding to me? LIAR.
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on May 14, 2018 19:01:02 GMT -5
Probably not but let’s see what happens this summer. ...I'm not suggesting we cancel the tournament. Then what are you suggesting? Oh right, get rid of Karch? Wow, how original an idea.
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on May 14, 2018 19:02:50 GMT -5
Ok fair enough. Karch may have to go if US does not, at the very least, improve on the bronze medal from Rio. Now the bigger question is WHY is the pipeline empty... The overall pipeline isn't empty - look at the NCAA. If the 2020+ pipeline for the NT is empty (which is many people's argument) that is the NT's fault. There is a shut-off valve before the NT for NCAA players who don't fit the system. Pre-2012, the best NCAA players were making the NT. Since then, I don't think that is true. The fact we are bringing veterans, who won't and shouldn't be making the Tokyo roster, over younger players is a poor investment decision. How many of the NCAA players are NT material though?
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on May 14, 2018 19:10:08 GMT -5
You do realize I never said it was personal, right? Don't like his coaching decisions? Sure, some of you lot seem to go beyond that... Your implication is regardless of personnel, decisions, etc... people will still hate Karch. That sure makes it sound as if you believe it's personal. It honestly isn't as much an implication as a suggestion. Criticism is one thing. But well...a few here certain do have something bordering on pathological hatred (exhibit A: Shhhhhhhhh) and others make absurd claims like this: Karch is a racist. Point Blank. First Destinee and now Krystal. So, you can't deny, some folks here take their dislike of Karch a little TOO far...
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on May 14, 2018 19:17:21 GMT -5
The overall pipeline isn't empty - look at the NCAA. If the 2020+ pipeline for the NT is empty (which is many people's argument) that is the NT's fault. There is a shut-off valve before the NT for NCAA players who don't fit the system. Pre-2012, the best NCAA players were making the NT. Since then, I don't think that is true. The fact we are bringing veterans, who won't and shouldn't be making the Tokyo roster, over younger players is a poor investment decision. How many of the NCAA players are NT material though? Every single USA National Team member in recent history, except for Kiba Phipps, has come through the NCAA at some point. There really isn't any other possibility, which is why the pipeline/development issue is relevant and important.
|
|