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Post by northwoods on Aug 5, 2019 9:22:27 GMT -5
During Poland Vs Serbia, Kevin Barnnet and Sunderland said USA did not play well this weekend with poor ball control and no sets to the middles. đđđ
That was a fair assessment. They played a veteran lineup designed not to lose against inferior competition, and still had to get bailed out by Thompson stellar play. Without upgrades at libero and middle the struggle for bronze will continue.
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Post by shesasetter on Aug 5, 2019 10:57:14 GMT -5
During Poland Vs Serbia, Kevin Barnnet and Sunderland said USA did not play well this weekend with poor ball control and no sets to the middles. đđđ
That was a fair assessment. They played a veteran lineup designed not to lose against inferior competition, and still had to get bailed out by Thompson stellar play. Without upgrades at libero and middle the struggle for bronze will continue. Not wrong.
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Post by ToddyJ on Aug 5, 2019 11:04:07 GMT -5
During Poland Vs Serbia, Kevin Barnnet and Sunderland said USA did not play well this weekend with poor ball control and no sets to the middles. đđđ
That was a fair assessment. They played a veteran lineup designed not to lose against inferior competition, and still had to get bailed out by Thompson stellar play. Without upgrades at libero and middle the struggle for bronze will continue. I can't disagree with you there. We are not medal favorites but it IS possible on any given day for the team USA to win a medal maybe even gold....it just isn't as likely as in the past two OG.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 11:43:33 GMT -5
During Poland Vs Serbia, Kevin Barnnet and Sunderland said USA did not play well this weekend with poor ball control and no sets to the middles. đđđ
That was a fair assessment. They played a veteran lineup designed not to lose against inferior competition, and still had to get bailed out by Thompson stellar play. Without upgrades at libero and middle the struggle for bronze will continue. I think we have answers at the libero and middle positions, at least. Not saying they're gold medal worthy answers, or answers Karch will agree with. Hopefully Foluke and Chiaka solve the middle struggle and Robinson solves libero. Without Foluke, and to a lesser extent Chiaka, you may have to pin your hopes for an improved middle attack on Rettke making a dramatic improvement in reading the block and improving her footwork defensively over the course of a B1G season and early summer season next year, as she's probably the most promising offensive threat aside from Foluke. You just can't have her out there in a big match as she'll get eaten up defensively.
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Post by Reach on Aug 5, 2019 11:51:55 GMT -5
That was a fair assessment. They played a veteran lineup designed not to lose against inferior competition, and still had to get bailed out by Thompson stellar play. Without upgrades at libero and middle the struggle for bronze will continue. I think we have answers at the libero and middle positions, at least. Not saying they're gold medal worthy answers, or answers Karch will agree with. Hopefully Foluke and Chiaka solve the middle struggle and Robinson solves libero. Without Foluke, and to a lesser extent Chiaka, you may have to pin your hopes for an improved middle attack on Rettke making a dramatic improvement in reading the block and improving her footwork defensively over the course of a B1G season and early summer season next year, as she's probably the most promising offensive threat aside from Foluke. You just can't have her out there in a big match as she'll get eaten up defensively. The thing is that the rest of the world doesn't exactly have amazing middles themselves. A lot of turnover from generations past without equal replacements seems to be the standard fare as of late. Brazil is WEAK, maybe the weakest I've ever seen.. Italy isn't great but maybe Folie makes a big splash going forward, Serbia is just okay but Rasic is getting old... The only team that has middles that can do some serious damage, currently, is China.
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Post by Reach on Aug 5, 2019 11:53:36 GMT -5
That was a fair assessment. They played a veteran lineup designed not to lose against inferior competition, and still had to get bailed out by Thompson stellar play. Without upgrades at libero and middle the struggle for bronze will continue. I can't disagree with you there. We are not medal favorites but it IS possible on any given day for the team USA to win a medal maybe even gold....it just isn't as likely as in the past two OG. A lot can change in one year. USA looks to be much better than they were a year ago in many facets of the game. Robinson, will like end up back as Libero and much of the issues will take care of themselves. For once, we have incredible depth at outside. I'm personally not sold on either Opp but it's good to see that when one has had an off day that the other has been able to contribute.
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Post by ToddyJ on Aug 5, 2019 12:12:43 GMT -5
I can't disagree with you there. We are not medal favorites but it IS possible on any given day for the team USA to win a medal maybe even gold....it just isn't as likely as in the past two OG. A lot can change in one year. USA looks to be much better than they were a year ago in many facets of the game. Robinson, will like end up back as Libero and much of the issues will take care of themselves. For once, we have incredible depth at outside. I'm personally not sold on either Opp but it's good to see that when one has had an off day that the other has been able to contribute. I am optimistic. I agree a lot can change in a year. Hoping all of them stay healthy and that the young ones grow and thrive in their pro-leagues.
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Post by ToddyJ on Aug 5, 2019 12:21:35 GMT -5
Posted this on the wrong thread.
This is my attempt to sum up once and for all the "she never sets the middle" argument. I'll likely regret this later when I want to pull my hair out.....
Still this issue looms.......if we are going to start our best passing line-up (Larson/Robinson/Hill/Courtney in ANY combo)......and we are in system most of the time we should be running the middle a decent amount of time. This is the major complaint from many on here concerning Carlini's setting. She has shown that she isn't afraid to move the ball around which is an improvement over what we saw last year. Her connection in the middle in front of the setter is not great. Her connection on the slide is better because she sets a very good ball behind her hence the almost 100% increase in production we have seen this season from the right side.
For instance our line-up we started vs. China in the VNL prelims looked the best and that was as close to an "elite" opponents line-up we played. That was also Carlini's second official match with the senior team this season. She established the middles early and that freed up the pins to dominate later on.
Our three pins (Drews/MBH/Robinson) were unstoppable in the 2nd and 3rd sets. Our middles (Ogbogu/Washington) saw limited sets late in the game but when they did they were decently productive. Their total number of sets in the match were limited but that was due to the pins being on fire.
By contrast.....what I saw this weekend watching the IOQT is that when Carlini attempts to establish a middle attack in the first set and it isn't effective she diverts to the pins and then doesn't set the middles much the remainder of the match even when the pass is good and in system. This puts more pressure on the pins to kill the ball as time goes on when our opponents block ignores the middle thus making it to the pins more regularly. I think we all agree that she needs to work on making better decisions in those moments and trusting the middles more.
However a counter argument could be that when you have a hot hitter (Thompson, Hill, Robinson)......you feed them the ball. Just like what we saw with her at Novara with Egonu last season. We will see more of the same with her at Dinamo Moscow with Goncharova.
I am holding out hope for a Foluke/Chiaka combo for Tokyo and with their level of physicality......perhaps Carlini won't be as timid in trusting them and hopefully they can have a lethal connection.
Long post....lots of thoughts....but this is my take on the whole "She can't set the middle" argument. She can. She just doesn't make the right decisions as consistently as some on here would like her to.
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Post by shesasetter on Aug 5, 2019 22:23:01 GMT -5
Posted this on the wrong thread. This is my attempt to sum up once and for all the "she never sets the middle" argument. I'll likely regret this later when I want to pull my hair out..... Still this issue looms.......if we are going to start our best passing line-up (Larson/Robinson/Hill/Courtney in ANY combo)......and we are in system most of the time we should be running the middle a decent amount of time. This is the major complaint from many on here concerning Carlini's setting. She has shown that she isn't afraid to move the ball around which is an improvement over what we saw last year. Her connection in the middle in front of the setter is not great. Her connection on the slide is better because she sets a very good ball behind her hence the almost 100% increase in production we have seen this season from the right side. For instance our line-up we started vs. China in the VNL prelims looked the best and that was as close to an "elite" opponents line-up we played. That was also Carlini's second official match with the senior team this season. She established the middles early and that freed up the pins to dominate later on. Our three pins (Drews/MBH/Robinson) were unstoppable in the 2nd and 3rd sets. Our middles (Ogbogu/Washington) saw limited sets late in the game but when they did they were decently productive. Their total number of sets in the match were limited but that was due to the pins being on fire. By contrast.....what I saw this weekend watching the IOQT is that when Carlini attempts to establish a middle attack in the first set and it isn't effective she diverts to the pins and then doesn't set the middles much the remainder of the match even when the pass is good and in system. This puts more pressure on the pins to kill the ball as time goes on when our opponents block ignores the middle thus making it to the pins more regularly. I think we all agree that she needs to work on making better decisions in those moments and trusting the middles more. However a counter argument could be that when you have a hot hitter (Thompson, Hill, Robinson)......you feed them the ball. Just like what we saw with her at Novara with Egonu last season. We will see more of the same with her at Dinamo Moscow with Goncharova. I am holding out hope for a Foluke/Chiaka combo for Tokyo and with their level of physicality......perhaps Carlini won't be as timid in trusting them and hopefully they can have a lethal connection. Long post....lots of thoughts....but this is my take on the whole "She can't set the middle" argument. She can. She just doesn't make the right decisions as consistently as some on here would like her to. Pretty fair assessment. I would add that sheâs still young in what sheâs doing leading this team. I mean itâs been 2 pro seasons, and sheâs the starting setter for one of the best teams in the world. We expected this, but that doesnât take away from the fact she still has a lot to learn and will need to learn it in 12 months. If she can make Haleigh Nelson a 2x AA who still has the schoolâs highest career hitting percentage (I think), itâs clear she CAN set the middle. What I think is happening is the âplanâ is that the system is focused on the pins and, and between the heavy distribution between setting the pins back and forth so much it still kept the opponent block on their toes. She now needs to work on the connections with the middle so that she can incorporate it a little more. But I donât think the plan should be to incorporate the middle a ton more. The offense is generally spread around quite a bit when you consider all of the pipe, D balls, C balls. I think the middleâs are doing their job, and assuming Foluke and Chiaka are the middles, that offense will be there eventually. Maybe Poulter can set the middle a bit better, just maybe. But Carlini brings everything else at a much higher level than any of our other setter options, and itâs currently no competition.
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Post by ToddyJ on Aug 5, 2019 23:57:19 GMT -5
Posted this on the wrong thread. This is my attempt to sum up once and for all the "she never sets the middle" argument. I'll likely regret this later when I want to pull my hair out..... Still this issue looms.......if we are going to start our best passing line-up (Larson/Robinson/Hill/Courtney in ANY combo)......and we are in system most of the time we should be running the middle a decent amount of time. This is the major complaint from many on here concerning Carlini's setting. She has shown that she isn't afraid to move the ball around which is an improvement over what we saw last year. Her connection in the middle in front of the setter is not great. Her connection on the slide is better because she sets a very good ball behind her hence the almost 100% increase in production we have seen this season from the right side. For instance our line-up we started vs. China in the VNL prelims looked the best and that was as close to an "elite" opponents line-up we played. That was also Carlini's second official match with the senior team this season. She established the middles early and that freed up the pins to dominate later on. Our three pins (Drews/MBH/Robinson) were unstoppable in the 2nd and 3rd sets. Our middles (Ogbogu/Washington) saw limited sets late in the game but when they did they were decently productive. Their total number of sets in the match were limited but that was due to the pins being on fire. By contrast.....what I saw this weekend watching the IOQT is that when Carlini attempts to establish a middle attack in the first set and it isn't effective she diverts to the pins and then doesn't set the middles much the remainder of the match even when the pass is good and in system. This puts more pressure on the pins to kill the ball as time goes on when our opponents block ignores the middle thus making it to the pins more regularly. I think we all agree that she needs to work on making better decisions in those moments and trusting the middles more. However a counter argument could be that when you have a hot hitter (Thompson, Hill, Robinson)......you feed them the ball. Just like what we saw with her at Novara with Egonu last season. We will see more of the same with her at Dinamo Moscow with Goncharova. I am holding out hope for a Foluke/Chiaka combo for Tokyo and with their level of physicality......perhaps Carlini won't be as timid in trusting them and hopefully they can have a lethal connection. Long post....lots of thoughts....but this is my take on the whole "She can't set the middle" argument. She can. She just doesn't make the right decisions as consistently as some on here would like her to. Pretty fair assessment. I would add that sheâs still young in what sheâs doing leading this team. I mean itâs been 2 pro seasons, and sheâs the starting setter for one of the best teams in the world. We expected this, but that doesnât take away from the fact she still has a lot to learn and will need to learn it in 12 months. If she can make Haleigh Nelson a 2x AA who still has the schoolâs highest career hitting percentage (I think), itâs clear she CAN set the middle. What I think is happening is the âplanâ is that the system is focused on the pins and, and between the heavy distribution between setting the pins back and forth so much it still kept the opponent block on their toes. She now needs to work on the connections with the middle so that she can incorporate it a little more. But I donât think the plan should be to incorporate the middle a ton more. The offense is generally spread around quite a bit when you consider all of the pipe, D balls, C balls. I think the middleâs are doing their job, and assuming Foluke and Chiaka are the middles, that offense will be there eventually. Maybe Poulter can set the middle a bit better, just maybe. But Carlini brings everything else at a much higher level than any of our other setter options, and itâs currently no competition. I like your assessment. I agree that we don't need a ton more offense from the middle/slide but it is "in theory" a much harder attack to stop so I see why folks on here are getting worked up over it. I also think it is quite astonishing that she is as good as she is just two years out of college. I hope the team does well in Tokyo. We all want it to be a Gold Medal. But I think this team going into the next quad has limitless potential with all of the new young talent breaking into the roster. It is an exciting time and that position is definitely hers at this point.
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Post by ToddyJ on Aug 5, 2019 23:59:49 GMT -5
I also think many posters on here don't take into consideration what the coaching staff is TELLING her to do. The system is law. It is....by its very nature.....limiting. I do wonder how good this team could be if she could just run the offense herself. Is that what most coaches do? Let their playmaker make the calls? I am legitimately curious.
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Post by dokterrudi on Aug 6, 2019 0:45:27 GMT -5
I can't disagree with you there. We are not medal favorites but it IS possible on any given day for the team USA to win a medal maybe even gold....it just isn't as likely as in the past two OG. A lot can change in one year. USA looks to be much better than they were a year ago in many facets of the game. Robinson, will like end up back as Libero and much of the issues will take care of themselves. For once, we have incredible depth at outside. I'm personally not sold on either Opp but it's good to see that when one has had an off day that the other has been able to contribute. I like Robinson where she is. I think she brings a lot of energy but then again you have a lot of depth there so I get it.
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Post by n00b on Aug 6, 2019 6:45:38 GMT -5
I also think many posters on here don't take into consideration what the coaching staff is TELLING her to do. The system is law. It is....by its very nature.....limiting. I do wonder how good this team could be if she could just run the offense herself. Is that what most coaches do? Let their playmaker make the calls? I am legitimately curious. We donât know this to be true. Did we immediately change the game plan when she became setter? Because she sets the back row WAY more than any previous setter.
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Post by shesasetter on Aug 6, 2019 7:33:11 GMT -5
I also think many posters on here don't take into consideration what the coaching staff is TELLING her to do. The system is law. It is....by its very nature.....limiting. I do wonder how good this team could be if she could just run the offense herself. Is that what most coaches do? Let their playmaker make the calls? I am legitimately curious. We donât know this to be true. Did we immediately change the game plan when she became setter? Because she sets the back row WAY more than any previous setter. Well wouldnât you? Karch himself just got quoted saying it was time team USA had someone terminal on the right side. Feed terminal.
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Post by ShaneM2005 on Aug 6, 2019 7:36:00 GMT -5
We donât know this to be true. Did we immediately change the game plan when she became setter? Because she sets the back row WAY more than any previous setter. Well wouldnât you? Karch himself just got quoted saying it was time team USA had someone terminal on the right side. Feed terminal. We do have someone terminal on the right side, but apparently Karch has no intention of putting her there.
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