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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 16:44:20 GMT -5
You said either the CPOLY or UCSB libero had "6 service errors". That's patently false. Should we just chalk it up to your 'laziness' and not call you on making stuff up? You get these are real humans, right? I had no problems with you correcting my mistake but I take exception to the snide remark at the end, which was totally unnecessarily. After you corrected my mistake, I was thinking, "Oh, okay, I must be thinking of some other libero. Good work on the fact check." Then your ensuing snide remark made me think, "What an asshat." Turns out, I was mistaken about the identity of the libero and the match. It was actually Hawaii vs. UC Davis. I've keyed it to the exact spot where the libero, Shira Lahav, made her 6th service error and Chris McLachlin made a comment about it. Great. Good on you finding the correct player and match. When making statements, especially critical ones, about players, research is important. Not just because inaccuracies undermine the quality of discussion here but they also create false narratives around real athletes who work hard day in, day out. Especially unfair when BOTH of the athletes you initially mentioned are having good seasons.
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Post by Wolfgang on Nov 20, 2019 16:47:36 GMT -5
I had no problems with you correcting my mistake but I take exception to the snide remark at the end, which was totally unnecessarily. After you corrected my mistake, I was thinking, "Oh, okay, I must be thinking of some other libero. Good work on the fact check." Then your ensuing snide remark made me think, "What an asshat." Turns out, I was mistaken about the identity of the libero and the match. It was actually Hawaii vs. UC Davis. I've keyed it to the exact spot where the libero, Shira Lahav, made her 6th service error and Chris McLachlin made a comment about it. Great. Good on you finding the correct player and match. When making statements, especially critical ones, about players, research is important. Not just because inaccuracies undermine the quality of discussion here but they also create false narratives around real athletes who work hard day in, day out. Especially unfair when BOTH of the athletes you initially mentioned are having good seasons. Well, I already prefaced my original post by saying "I can't remember." It's always possible that the lack of memory applies to school, match, and libero. Jeeeezus! And based on the Hawaii-UC Davis stats, plus the video clip where the announcer said exactly what I said he said, plus the fact that it was indeed a libero, it's not like I made stuff up out of thin air.
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Post by VT Five-0 on Nov 20, 2019 16:49:52 GMT -5
I had no problems with you correcting my mistake but I take exception to the snide remark at the end, which was totally unnecessarily. After you corrected my mistake, I was thinking, "Oh, okay, I must be thinking of some other libero. Good work on the fact check." Then your ensuing snide remark made me think, "What an asshat." Turns out, I was mistaken about the identity of the libero and the match. It was actually Hawaii vs. UC Davis. I've keyed it to the exact spot where the libero, Shira Lahav, made her 6th service error and Chris McLachlin made a comment about it. Great. Good on you finding the correct player and match. When making statements, especially critical ones, about players, research is important. Not just because inaccuracies undermine the quality of discussion here but they also create false narratives around real athletes who work hard day in, day out. Especially unfair when BOTH of the athletes you initially mentioned are having good seasons. Don't take yourself too seriously.
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Post by Wolfgang on Nov 20, 2019 16:54:35 GMT -5
I had no problems with you correcting my mistake but I take exception to the snide remark at the end, which was totally unnecessarily. After you corrected my mistake, I was thinking, "Oh, okay, I must be thinking of some other libero. Good work on the fact check." Then your ensuing snide remark made me think, "What an asshat." Turns out, I was mistaken about the identity of the libero and the match. It was actually Hawaii vs. UC Davis. I've keyed it to the exact spot where the libero, Shira Lahav, made her 6th service error and Chris McLachlin made a comment about it. Great. Good on you finding the correct player and match. When making statements, especially critical ones, about players, research is important. Not just because inaccuracies undermine the quality of discussion here but they also create false narratives around real athletes who work hard day in, day out. Especially unfair when BOTH of the athletes you initially mentioned are having good seasons.Zzzzzz...
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Post by Wolfgang on Nov 20, 2019 17:04:39 GMT -5
Well, I already prefaced my original post by saying "I can't remember." It's always possible that the lack of memory applies to school, match, and libero. Jeeeezus! And based on the Hawaii-UC Davis stats, plus the video clip where the announcer said exactly what I said he said, plus the fact that it was indeed a libero, it's not like I made stuff up out of thin air. Are you still trying to justify your initial post? If I hadn't said anything that fallacy would've been attached to two good players...and you think the injustice here is that I said you "made it up"?? Before you make a statement, check it's true. It took you a few minutes to check it was Lahav and not Dickson/Fleck. If you don't want to do that, fine, then don't get butthurt when you get corrected. Your feelings aren't more important than accurate statements. Toughen up, buttercup. Ugh...
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Post by volleyjeep on Nov 20, 2019 17:32:57 GMT -5
Well this thread is off to the races! As far as the SEs... Cal Poly has determined that they are willing to miss a higher percentage of serves in order to be aggressive with their serves. Seems like a perfectly reasonable game plan that people seem to be thinking is really stupid. Could they miss less serves? Maybe. It's not like they're trying to miss the serve. But for their team they've determined they can live with, or need to live with, the more aggressive serving. And with that comes more SEs.
In my opinion, they need to be aggressive because their floor defense isn't as good as it has been in the past. More pressure on the other teams SRec makes more predictable set out comes, and/or not as good of an attack. If Cal Poly's defense was lights out there would be a lot less SEs or need to bomb away at the line. Simple concept from a coaching perspective. You play to your teams strengths.
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Post by thor on Nov 20, 2019 17:41:21 GMT -5
Are you still trying to justify your initial post? If I hadn't said anything that fallacy would've been attached to two good players...and you think the injustice here is that I said you "made it up"?? Before you make a statement, check it's true. It took you a few minutes to check it was Lahav and not Dickson/Fleck. If you don't want to do that, fine, then don't get butthurt when you get corrected. Your feelings aren't more important than accurate statements. Toughen up, buttercup. Ugh... Cheer up Wolfgang. Things could really suck like at least u & BWF2 r not married to each other. 😬
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 20:25:45 GMT -5
Well this thread is off to the races! As far as the SEs... Cal Poly has determined that they are willing to miss a higher percentage of serves in order to be aggressive with their serves. Seems like a perfectly reasonable game plan that people seem to be thinking is really stupid. Could they miss less serves? Maybe. It's not like they're trying to miss the serve. But for their team they've determined they can live with, or need to live with, the more aggressive serving. And with that comes more SEs. In my opinion, they need to be aggressive because their floor defense isn't as good as it has been in the past. More pressure on the other teams SRec makes more predictable set out comes, and/or not as good of an attack. If Cal Poly's defense was lights out there would be a lot less SEs or need to bomb away at the line. Simple concept from a coaching perspective. You play to your teams strengths. A perfectly reasonable premise. In the interest of clarity I will say POLY has the worst percentage of points won on their serve between the three title challengers in the BW this year. But, as you rightly point out, their serve receive has been a bigger issue. They are a solid margin behind UH and UCSB in good pass percentage (both on the whole season and just in conference play) so clearly they're attempting to make up some of that shortfall on their own serve. I maintain, though, that Madilyn Mercer's 37% win rate on her own serve has nothing to do with a game plan or aggression and does say something about the coaching.
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Post by 808empath on Nov 20, 2019 21:00:32 GMT -5
I can't remember if it was the UCSB libero or the Cal Poly libero but one of those gals gave Hawaii a lot of points due to service errors. As soon as I saw that libero back to serve, I was thinking, "Another point for Hawaii!" and sure enough, they served an error. LOL! Even in the broadcast, Chris McLachlin (or Lisa Strand-Ma'a) was saying that ____________ (again, can't remember which libero) had 6 service errors, way too many points to give up like that. I think it was one of CalPoly's MB with a bunch of service errors & always at inopportune times, like after winning a long rally.
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Post by volleyjeep on Nov 20, 2019 21:01:22 GMT -5
Well this thread is off to the races! As far as the SEs... Cal Poly has determined that they are willing to miss a higher percentage of serves in order to be aggressive with their serves. Seems like a perfectly reasonable game plan that people seem to be thinking is really stupid. Could they miss less serves? Maybe. It's not like they're trying to miss the serve. But for their team they've determined they can live with, or need to live with, the more aggressive serving. And with that comes more SEs. In my opinion, they need to be aggressive because their floor defense isn't as good as it has been in the past. More pressure on the other teams SRec makes more predictable set out comes, and/or not as good of an attack. If Cal Poly's defense was lights out there would be a lot less SEs or need to bomb away at the line. Simple concept from a coaching perspective. You play to your teams strengths. A perfectly reasonable premise. In the interest of clarity I will say POLY has the worst percentage of points won on their serve between the three title challengers in the BW this year. But, as you rightly point out, their serve receive has been a bigger issue. They are a solid margin behind UH and UCSB in good pass percentage (both on the whole season and just in conference play) so clearly they're attempting to make up some of that shortfall on their own serve. I maintain, though, that Madilyn Mercer's 37% win rate on her own serve has nothing to do with a game plan or aggression and does say something about the coaching. How much of Mercer's win rate is on the coaches and how much is on the players executing?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 21:24:14 GMT -5
A perfectly reasonable premise. In the interest of clarity I will say POLY has the worst percentage of points won on their serve between the three title challengers in the BW this year. But, as you rightly point out, their serve receive has been a bigger issue. They are a solid margin behind UH and UCSB in good pass percentage (both on the whole season and just in conference play) so clearly they're attempting to make up some of that shortfall on their own serve. I maintain, though, that Madilyn Mercer's 37% win rate on her own serve has nothing to do with a game plan or aggression and does say something about the coaching. How much of Mercer's win rate is on the coaches and how much is on the players executing? Well, further to the suggestion that she's being told to serve tough, her ace percentage is just 5.8%, good for only 9th on the team. So I don't think she's being told to serve tough. I just don't think she has a tough serve. Which makes the 16.7% error rate look even worse. Maia, for instance, perfectly fits you idea of "go big or go bust" with a 24% error rate but still a solid win percentage on her serve. Mercer just isn't there and the fact that she's still been allowed to serve 218 balls (of which Poly have lost 63% of those points) is, indisputably, a coaching decision.
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Post by volleyjeep on Nov 20, 2019 21:46:23 GMT -5
How much of Mercer's win rate is on the coaches and how much is on the players executing? Well, further to the suggestion that she's being told to serve tough, her ace percentage is just 5.8%, good for only 9th on the team. So I don't think she's being told to serve tough. I just don't think she has a tough serve. Which makes the 16.7% error rate look even worse. Maia, for instance, perfectly fits you idea of "go big or go bust" with a 24% error rate but still a solid win percentage on her serve. Mercer just isn't there and the fact that she's still been allowed to serve 218 balls (of which Poly have lost 63% of those points) is, indisputably, a coaching decision. Are aces the only metric that is used to determine serving toughness? What about out system passes? Sure, Cal Poly's PS% when she's serving is not good. But what is happening behind the scenes that is making the coaches use her on the serving line? Are other players who could serve for her not doing well in practice? Maybe Mercer is crushing it in practice but for whatever reason isn't transferring into the match. I have no doubt the Cal Poly coaches have a reason for letting her serve as much as she has. There are lots factors that go beyond stats that can influence coaches decisions. Being that she is a MB and serving opposite the L, with the other two DS's serving for the OH's, who is going to serve for her? It could be a simple they don't want to use a substitution there because they are already double subbing DS's in for both OH's. I wouldn't think they would run out of subs, but maybe they want to keep some in reserve. I don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 21:57:51 GMT -5
Well, further to the suggestion that she's being told to serve tough, her ace percentage is just 5.8%, good for only 9th on the team. So I don't think she's being told to serve tough. I just don't think she has a tough serve. Which makes the 16.7% error rate look even worse. Maia, for instance, perfectly fits you idea of "go big or go bust" with a 24% error rate but still a solid win percentage on her serve. Mercer just isn't there and the fact that she's still been allowed to serve 218 balls (of which Poly have lost 63% of those points) is, indisputably, a coaching decision. Are aces the only metric that is used to determine serving toughness? What about out system passes? Sure, Cal Poly's PS% when she's serving is not good. But what is happening behind the scenes that is making the coaches use her on the serving line? Are other players who could serve for her not doing well in practice? Maybe Mercer is crushing it in practice but for whatever reason isn't transferring into the match. I have no doubt the Cal Poly coaches have a reason for letting her serve as much as she has. There are lots factors that go beyond stats that can influence coaches decisions. Being that she is a MB and serving opposite the L, with the other two DS's serving for the OH's, who is going to serve for her? It could be a simple they don't want to use a substitution there because they are already double subbing DS's in for both OH's. I wouldn't think they would run out of subs, but maybe they want to keep some in reserve. I don't know. I don't know either. You're right, there must be something that's making them rely on her even though she's - objectively - serving very badly. I'm just not sure what it is. She's more than 7% below the team average. The other interesting factor is the other MB, Phillips has only served 22 times but has won 59% of her serves with a 13.6% ace rate. Obviously a sample size of 22 isn't statistically significant but that 59% would be 11% higher than ANYONE else on the team. Of course she couldn't keep that up, but even if she could win 42% over those 250 ish MB serves it'd make a difference. So yeah, I don't know either. All I can do is give you the stats which back up what everyone here suspected (winning points on serve hasn't been a strength for Poly) and guess at possible reasons. One interesting thing that came out of the analysis though... Each of the 3 top teams in the BW this year have a distinct advantage over the other two in one area of the game. For Poly they have the best hitting percentage. For UCSB their serve receive is considerably better than the other two and for Hawaii their digging and conversion of defense to offense has been superior. Probably only interests me, but it's cool to see 3 distinctly different teams.
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Post by jake on Nov 24, 2019 0:04:12 GMT -5
CAL POLY finishes off CSUF in four sets (25, 20, 11 & 17).
Playing/winning two matches over the weekend in front of over 3100 fans. (Not the SSC,...but, a solid second team in attendance in the BWC)
Now the Lady'Stangs will need to wait a week to hear about postseason play.
A solid RPI in the mid 30's & some quality wins over top 25 teams should find them in the NCAA's.
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Post by raian13 on Nov 24, 2019 0:06:35 GMT -5
CAL POLY finishes off CSUF in four sets (25, 20, 11 & 17). Playing/winning two matches over the weekend in front of over 3100 fans. (Not the SSC,...but, a solid second team in attendance in the BWC) Now the Lady'Stangs will need to wait a week to hear about postseason play. A solid RPI in the mid 30's & some quality wins over top 25 teams should find them in the NCAA's. They should be in - wins over Hawai’i and Utah are good on their resume.
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