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Post by ironhammer on Mar 13, 2019 1:30:02 GMT -5
God help us if he somehow goes ahead to abolish the FAA and NTSB. He can't. They are established by law. That's a relief. But he could always try to cut funding for the FAA and NTSB.
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 13, 2019 2:55:54 GMT -5
He can't. They are established by law. That's a relief. But he could always try to cut funding for the FAA and NTSB. He could propose it, I guess. But funding is also set by Congress ... unless it's overridden by a National Emergency, I suppose.
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 13, 2019 8:57:02 GMT -5
That's a relief. But he could always try to cut funding for the FAA and NTSB. He could propose it, I guess. But funding is also set by Congress ... unless it's overridden by a National Emergency, I suppose. If Trump is resorting to declaring a National Emergency to try to get funds for a (useless) border wall, I bet he can conjure tricks to cut funding. He's that kind of person. No principles. No ethics.
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 13, 2019 10:34:53 GMT -5
For those who have any...shall we say, "inside information", what is Boeing thinking now? Is Dennis Muilenburg feeling a little hot under the collar? Are the folks at the Renton plant a little nervous? Are Boeing engineers having second thoughts about the MCAS?
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 13, 2019 19:59:17 GMT -5
So the FAA has grounded the 737 MAX in the US (with Canada grounding it as well). The reasons for their grounding is the crucial part and deserves to be read in full: www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Emergency_Order.pdf"investigators of the ET 302 crash developed new information from the wreckage concerning the aircraft's configuration just after takeoff that, taken together with newly-refined data from satellite-based tracking of the aircraft's flight path, indicates some similarities between the ET 302 and JT 610 accidents that warrant further investigation of the possibility of a shared cause for the two incidents that needs to be better understood and addressed. Accordingly, the Acting Administrator is ordering all Boeing 737 MAX airplanes to be grounded pending further investigation"
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 13, 2019 20:12:33 GMT -5
Canada ordered a grounding before the US did. Trump publicly ordered the FAA to ground the airplanes. After that, the FAA issued the order you quoted.
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 13, 2019 20:14:40 GMT -5
Canada ordered a grounding before the US did. Trump publicly ordered the FAA to ground the airplanes. After that, the FAA issued the order you quoted. I know already, I revised my statement before your reply. In any event, not the most relevant issue here. But it is important to stress FAA is not doing this out of the blue or simply because Trump ordered them to, they are saying they had some data indicating the flight track between ET 302 and JT 610 share similarities in their flight path before the crash. That does not mean at this point they share the same cause, but it is an important indication that there may indeed be something going on with the MAX, either the MCAS or something else that cause the crash of both aircraft.
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 13, 2019 20:16:37 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but I believe the sequence in which countries/entities ordered the planes grounded was:
Ethiopia Indonesia China UK EASA (Europe) Canada Trump FAA and Boeing jointly
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 13, 2019 20:20:16 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but I believe the sequence in which countries/entities ordered the planes grounded was: Ethiopia Indonesia China UK EASA (Europe) Canada Trump FAA Boeing Trump ordered the grounding, but the FAA Acting Administrator was the one who made the call, after consulting with Boeing and the White House. So it is likely Trump followed the recommendation of the FAA to ground the plane and not simply doing it all by himself first: www.cnbc.com/2019/03/13/boeing-shares-fall-after-report-says-us-expected-to-ground-737-max-fleet.html
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 13, 2019 20:23:39 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but I believe the sequence in which countries/entities ordered the planes grounded was: Ethiopia Indonesia China UK EASA (Europe) Canada Trump FAA Boeing Trump ordered the grounding, but the FAA Acting Administrator was the one who made the call, after consulting with Boeing and the White House. So it is likely Trump followed the recommendation of the FAA to ground the plane and not simply doing it all by himself: www.cnbc.com/2019/03/13/boeing-shares-fall-after-report-says-us-expected-to-ground-737-max-fleet.htmlCould be. It was first reported that Trump was ordering it, then that the FAA issued the order. Boeing statements say they advised the FAA to issue the order. It all happened pretty quickly, so the sequence isn't clear from the outside.
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 13, 2019 20:34:57 GMT -5
Could be. It was first reported that Trump was ordering it, then that the FAA issued the order. Boeing statements say they advised the FAA to issue the order. It all happened pretty quickly, so the sequence isn't clear from the outside. Correct me if I am wrong, but the FAA does not issue a grounding order lightly, the last one they did was with the 787 over their lithium battery issue? And the last major commerical airliner that was grounded before that we have to go all the way back to the 70's with the DC-10. The plane suffered from a spate of fatal crashes in it's early career in the 70's, especially over the design of it's cargo door. After the crash of American 191 on May 25th 1979, the FAA grounded the DC-10 on June 6th 1979. Maybe it's an indication of the advance in data collection and investigation ability since then, but in the case of 191, it took 12 days before FAA issued the grounding order vs just 3 days for the MAX. Speaking of the DC-10. It eventually fixed it's various problems and came to have a safety record not too different from other airliners of the the time. However, it's reputation damage with the public could never recovered fully. The flying public associated DC-10 with being an unsafe aircraft, with nicknames like Death Cruiser-10, Donald's disaster, or Daily Crash. Tragically, I think the DC-10 widebody trijet's competitor, the Lockheed L-1011 Tristar, was actually a better and more advanced design from a technical standpoint. But delays caused by the Rolls Royce bankruptcy (they relied on the RR engines) caused them to fall behind the DC-10 program and they never recovered, forcing Lockheed to exit the commerical aircraft market.
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 15, 2019 20:58:48 GMT -5
Latest news are showing the jack screw, which the stabilizer uses to move up and down, is in the "dive" position, so that causes the erratic pitch up and down of the Ethiopian flight, same as the Lion Air crash.
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Post by breakoutsports on Mar 16, 2019 18:58:04 GMT -5
I absolutely hate that high ranking members of our government have such strong ties to Boeing. How does 30 years at Boeing qualify you to be the secretary of anything??
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 16, 2019 22:38:36 GMT -5
I absolutely hate that high ranking members of our government have such strong ties to Boeing. How does 30 years at Boeing qualify you to be the secretary of anything?? Actually, being a cabinet secretary is very much like being a high level manager at a large company. You have thousands of people working for you, you have billions of dollars of budget to oversee, and many of the required skills are exactly the same. I am not usually the world's biggest fan of Boeing executives, but Trump could have picked worse. (For that matter, I believe that most of his picks *have* been worse.)
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 16, 2019 22:48:58 GMT -5
I absolutely hate that high ranking members of our government have such strong ties to Boeing. How does 30 years at Boeing qualify you to be the secretary of anything?? Actually, being a cabinet secretary is very much like being a high level manager at a large company. You have thousands of people working for you, you have billions of dollars of budget to oversee, and many of the required skills are exactly the same. I am not usually the world's biggest fan of Boeing executives, but Trump could have picked worse. (For that matter, I believe that most of his picks *have* been worse.) I think breakout sports is questioning the perception of a too cozy relations between Boeing and the administration. In fairness, this did not start with Trump, but can be traced back to many prior administrations, given the importance of Boeing to US manufacturing and exports. But excessively close relations can always raise questions of conflict of interest. The question of close ties can also be raised between Boeing and FAA. In general, the FAA has done a good job setting the standards of aviation safety regulations for the rest of the world to follow. But the MAX issue has pointed to a disconnect between global regulations and US regulations. It is legitimate to wonder about the FAA and Boeing ties here I think.
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