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Post by leftcoaster71 on Apr 18, 2019 1:50:47 GMT -5
I had not realized this but Lori Loughlin's husband Mossimo Giannoulis is THE Mossimo behind the volleyball wear Mossimo during the 1980's and 1990's. It was ubiquitous in the volleyball scene. It was later bought by Target and died as a brand. But that is where the money comes from. A little correction in this. Before it was bought out by Target, Mossimo thought they were going to be the next big fashion house. They were going to be the next Calvin Klein or Tommy Hilfiger. They cut their ties to the volleyball world, went high fashion, went public and then bombed. After the bottom fell out, Target swooped in and bought them.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 18, 2019 4:49:24 GMT -5
I'd suggest that no matter how rich you are, if the fine's meaningless it wasn't large enough. That's not the way the US legal system works. Some other countries assess fines based on a person's assets -- like giving a $50,000 speeding ticket to Jeff Bezos instead of a $100 speeding ticket for you or me. But here in the US, Bezos gets the same fine for speeding as everybody else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 8:55:33 GMT -5
You guys, it's been decided by the gatekeepers: We are not allowed to opine on this topic since this is Volleytalk, a very important piece to a criminal investigation. If she hasn't been found guilty by a jury yet, we cannot express the idea that there's a chance she's guilty.
Since the US charges the same fines no matter your wealth, we can't discuss why it would make sense to change it.
She's innocent until proven GUILTY, and until she's formally charged, we are not allowed to discuss or have an opinion on the matter. Since, you know, we're totally involved in this case's outcome.
.....now, if the gatekeepers would come out like this in regards to volleyball, this message board would literally not exist. How dare we discuss something until the officials have spoken!
(Also, why is this thread on this forum? Shouldn't there be uproar over that?!)
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bluepenquin
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4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
Posts: 12,447
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Post by bluepenquin on Apr 18, 2019 9:55:40 GMT -5
If I'm wealthy and go to the Associate Director of Athletics and she says, "If you donate $50,000 to the Athletics department, I think that your daughter's application likely will get approved. Oh, and by the way, let's pretend that she's an athlete." It's that second bit that makes it illegal. You have just now conspired to commit fraud. And once you send the money in, you have made an illegal wire transfer of money for fraudulent purposes. And if you conceal doing this or try to whitewash it by channeling it through a "charity", you have now committed money laundering. All because you originally conspired to commit fraud, not because you donated money to the college. If we start to think about this - 'fraud' such as this is being committed all the time by people. I know I have done it without really thinking about it. I recently sold a car - but I put on the title and bill of sale a price less than the actual cash transfer. I mentioned this to my Dad - and he quickly told me I was just like those parents in the admission scandal. It was a small fraud, but it was fraud. If found out - should I spend time in jail? We can so easily justify these kinds of things. I first got home owners insurance - and my agent told me I would pay a lower rate if I had a fire extinguisher in the house. I told him I would get one - they charged me the lower rate. I never got around to buying that fire extinguisher - I have now committed fraud. Should I serve jail time? I first bought car insurance and with my agent we listed that I was to drive to and from school and work approximately 12,000 miles a year. I was driving more like 20K miles per year - I conspired to commit fraud as the agent and myself knew very well I was going to drive more miles. Should we spend time in jail? There are people who leave work a couple minutes early but get paid for this. They put the fraudulent time on their timecard - should they go to jail? I think I am a pretty honest guy - probably more honest than most people. I have to say - if I had the money and wanted to get my children into a university - and one of the 'requirements' was to fake a rowing picture and this was considered part of normal business by a 3rd party guy and apparently someone associated with the University (not sure if the 2nd part is totally true) - I could see myself doing this. And then money laundering associated with tax evasion - gosh the way the tax laws are written we could lock up just about everyone in the country. Tax law is a lot of grey area where most people try and do things that will get them the lowest possible tax bill. The grey area could be contended - and if found out in the wrong one will get hit with a tax penalty. Some of this can be honest mistakes - other are mistakes where you know you are on the line of being illegal but there is enough grey area in the law that you are not so sure. Do we get to jail time for this - do we call this money laundering?
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Post by volleylearner on Apr 18, 2019 11:03:25 GMT -5
If we start to think about this - 'fraud' such as this is being committed all the time by people. I know I have done it without really thinking about it. I recently sold a car - but I put on the title and bill of sale a price less than the actual cash transfer. I mentioned this to my Dad - and he quickly told me I was just like those parents in the admission scandal. It was a small fraud, but it was fraud. If found out - should I spend time in jail? We can so easily justify these kinds of things. I first got home owners insurance - and my agent told me I would pay a lower rate if I had a fire extinguisher in the house. I told him I would get one - they charged me the lower rate. I never got around to buying that fire extinguisher - I have now committed fraud. Should I serve jail time? I first bought car insurance and with my agent we listed that I was to drive to and from school and work approximately 12,000 miles a year. I was driving more like 20K miles per year - I conspired to commit fraud as the agent and myself knew very well I was going to drive more miles. Should we spend time in jail? There are people who leave work a couple minutes early but get paid for this. They put the fraudulent time on their timecard - should they go to jail? I think I am a pretty honest guy - probably more honest than most people. I have to say - if I had the money and wanted to get my children into a university - and one of the 'requirements' was to fake a rowing picture and this was considered part of normal business by a 3rd party guy and apparently someone associated with the University (not sure if the 2nd part is totally true) - I could see myself doing this. And then money laundering associated with tax evasion - gosh the way the tax laws are written we could lock up just about everyone in the country. Tax law is a lot of grey area where most people try and do things that will get them the lowest possible tax bill. The grey area could be contended - and if found out in the wrong one will get hit with a tax penalty. Some of this can be honest mistakes - other are mistakes where you know you are on the line of being illegal but there is enough grey area in the law that you are not so sure. Do we get to jail time for this - do we call this money laundering? I am disappointed in you. I don't agree that most/many people are dishonest in the ways you describe. There are plenty of people in this world who are dishonest--I get plenty of spam to prove that--but just because behavior is common doesn't mean we should shrug it off. Describing such behavior as still "pretty honest" seems like a depressingly low bar for the term. The tax laws about not receiving anything for deductible donations are not "grey areas." They are quite clear and 501(c)(3) organizations I know are careful to obey them. As for jail time vs fine/community service/probation, fitting punishments to crimes is always challenging. In general, my feeling is that we are more often too severe than too lenient. Unfortunately, we tend to be too severe with poor people and too lenient with rich people. For the crimes in this case, I'd be ok with a combination of fines and community service.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 18, 2019 11:38:26 GMT -5
Forget Operation Varsity Blues. I see an Operation Blue Penquin in my crystal ball.
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Post by deohge on Apr 18, 2019 14:20:06 GMT -5
I'd suggest that no matter how rich you are, if the fine's meaningless it wasn't large enough. As to the prison time argument, there's a subset of folks who function better on the inside than the outside. I believe Aunt Becky and Mossimo need a nice chunk of both. They'll recover the lost income opportunity with a book and/or movie deal. Denying them their freedom and serving a huge helping of humility would do them wonders. . . their safety will never be in question at Club Fed. So true.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 18, 2019 14:27:05 GMT -5
If we start to think about this - 'fraud' such as this is being committed all the time by people. I know I have done it without really thinking about it. I recently sold a car - but I put on the title and bill of sale a price less than the actual cash transfer. I mentioned this to my Dad - and he quickly told me I was just like those parents in the admission scandal. It was a small fraud, but it was fraud. If found out - should I spend time in jail? We can so easily justify these kinds of things. I assume this was for the purpose of sales tax evasion? Well yeah, that's a crime. I first got home owners insurance - and my agent told me I would pay a lower rate if I had a fire extinguisher in the house. I told him I would get one - they charged me the lower rate. I never got around to buying that fire extinguisher - I have now committed fraud. Should I serve jail time? That could be a mistake, I guess. But why don't you just go buy a fire extinguisher? They aren't bad to have around. This could come back to screw you, if your house catches fire and the insurance company denies coverage because you didn't have a fire extinguisher. I first bought car insurance and with my agent we listed that I was to drive to and from school and work approximately 12,000 miles a year. I was driving more like 20K miles per year - I conspired to commit fraud as the agent and myself knew very well I was going to drive more miles. Should we spend time in jail? How exactly did the agent "know you were lying"? Plenty of cars have <12000 miles annually. (My insurance company occasionally asks me to tell them the odometer reading of my car, to verify how many miles per year are being driven.) This could come back to screw you, if your car is wrecked and the insurance company denies coverage because you drove more than 12,000 miles. There are people who leave work a couple minutes early but get paid for this. They put the fraudulent time on their timecard - should they go to jail? I suppose that depends. Are they on salary? Do they sometimes work a few minutes late without charging OT? Does the boss say, "if things are slow and there's nothing left to do, go a head and leave a few minutes early"? This could come back to screw them if they get fired from their job because of it. I think I am a pretty honest guy - probably more honest than most people. I have to say - if I had the money and wanted to get my children into a university - and one of the 'requirements' was to fake a rowing picture and this was considered part of normal business by a 3rd party guy and apparently someone associated with the University (not sure if the 2nd part is totally true) - I could see myself doing this. Uh, no, apparently you are *not* more honest than most people. As we have seen, this could come back to screw someone if the university says they lied on their application and expels them. And then money laundering associated with tax evasion - gosh the way the tax laws are written we could lock up just about everyone in the country. Tax law is a lot of grey area where most people try and do things that will get them the lowest possible tax bill. The grey area could be contended - and if found out in the wrong one will get hit with a tax penalty. Some of this can be honest mistakes - other are mistakes where you know you are on the line of being illegal but there is enough grey area in the law that you are not so sure. Do we get to jail time for this - do we call this money laundering? If you "do the things that will get you the lowest tax bill" and those things are legal, then it's your right to do them. If they aren't, it's a crime. "Money laundering" is specifically a crime of trying to hide the nature or amount of a transaction -- to make it appear as if the money is going to one place for one reason but actually it is going to another place and/or for another reason. Tax evasion is not money laundering, but money laundering could be part of tax evasion. If I had to guess, I would guess my own behavior with respect to taxes is pretty common -- I spend a few hours every year trying to see if there are any valid deductions I can take, but otherwise I just pay my taxes.
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Post by hammer on Apr 18, 2019 15:12:28 GMT -5
The problem with Operation bluepenquin is we will quickly run out of resources for other similar operations.
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Post by staticb on Apr 18, 2019 15:16:38 GMT -5
I first got home owners insurance - and my agent told me I would pay a lower rate if I had a fire extinguisher in the house. I told him I would get one - they charged me the lower rate. I never got around to buying that fire extinguisher - I have now committed fraud. Should I serve jail time? Get the fire extinguisher. Your home insurance is now useless if your house burns down. No way are they going to pay out if your house catches fire and it comes out you don't have a fire extinguisher.
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Post by hammer on Apr 18, 2019 16:45:20 GMT -5
I first got home owners insurance - and my agent told me I would pay a lower rate if I had a fire extinguisher in the house. I told him I would get one - they charged me the lower rate. I never got around to buying that fire extinguisher - I have now committed fraud. Should I serve jail time? Get the fire extinguisher. Your home insurance is now useless if your house burns down. No way are they going to pay out if your house catches fire and it comes out you don't have a fire extinguisher. Also, train yourself on how to use one ... create a small fire in your back yard, put the extinguisher nearby, and then have someone who knows how to use the extinguisher time you as you put out the fire. www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=putting+out+a+small+fire+with+an+extinguisher&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#kpvalbx=1
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 18, 2019 16:47:57 GMT -5
LOL! You don’t need to create a fire. You just need to know how to hold the extinguisher, aim, turn it on, spray, and turn it off. Don’t go starting fires! Just pretend there’s a fire.
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Post by hammer on Apr 18, 2019 17:02:38 GMT -5
LOL! You don’t need to create a fire. You just need to know how to hold the extinguisher, aim, turn it on, spray, and turn it off. Don’t go starting fires! Just pretend there’s a fire. I was going to add that creating a small fire could be dangerous, especially in drought prone areas. I like the tip in the video where the fireman says keep the extinguisher(s) next to entry doors. A lot of people have an extinguisher but it is sitting in their garage perhaps obstructed by junk. And anyone out there who is a hoarder, remember your structure will burn hotter with all the extra onboard fuel.
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Post by ned3vball on Apr 19, 2019 5:45:30 GMT -5
I learned something scary about homeowner's insurance the other day. A standard policy does not cover your oil tank springing a leak. You are on the hook for the cleanup, and maybe one that involves the oil getting in the soil and creating an environmental hazard. You need a special rider that only 5% of people with oil tanks have. Poor lady on the news had spent $125K(so far) on a leak that went into her backyard.
A lot people in northern MA will drive to NH to buy big appliances and such since there isn't any sales tax. You are supposed to report large out of state purchases on your MA return. OK.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 19, 2019 10:23:43 GMT -5
I learned something scary about homeowner's insurance the other day. A standard policy does not cover your oil tank springing a leak. You are on the hook for the cleanup, and maybe one that involves the oil getting in the soil and creating an environmental hazard. You need a special rider that only 5% of people with oil tanks have. Poor lady on the news had spent $125K(so far) on a leak that went into her backyard. A lot people in northern MA will drive to NH to buy big appliances and such since there isn't any sales tax. You are supposed to report large out of state purchases on your MA return. OK. The same happens for people who live on the border between WA and OR. WA has no state income tax; OR has no state sales tax. People in WA who buy items from out of state are supposed to pay "use tax" on items they purchase out of state (equal to the difference between WA sales tax and the local sales tax) or in individual-to-individual sales. In practice, this is almost never paid except for easily tracked items like vehicles that need to be titled. When selling a car between two people, the buyer and seller both report the price of the sale as part of the title transfer process, but only the buyer is responsible for paying use tax on it. If the buyer can convince the seller to report a lower price for the sale than actually occurred, they can pay less tax. However, this is a conspiracy to commit tax evasion fraud. If the buyer were to kick back $50 or so to get the seller to lower the reported sales price by $1000, this would also violate anti-kickback laws too. And yes, I have bought any number of things via "mail order" (usually over the web) from out of state and not paid "use tax" on it. I've never actually driven to Oregon to buy anything, because that's a long enough trip from the Seattle area as to not make it worth it. Besides, it would be actively illegal, as opposed to passively illegal. Buying stuff mail order and not reporting it is a passive act ("not reporting"), while traveling somewhere to buy something tax-free is an active act ("traveling to buy"). Many people do not consider such cross-border shopping to be immoral, though. Just as Washingtonians on the border cross to Oregon to buy some things, many people cross the US/Canada border to buy things that are cheaper in the other country (and/or only available in the other country).
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