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Post by jayj79 on May 13, 2019 21:32:38 GMT -5
Is it just me or are some here just a little too attached to the show? and some are a little too attached to volleyball. *shrug*
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Post by Millennium on May 14, 2019 0:33:19 GMT -5
Some interesting insight from another board:
"I will say this: I respect the hell of what the art department on this show consistently churned out, not just this season but all eight seasons."
"I have a lot of criticism about the writing, but the filmmaking for GoT 8.5 was first-class. Not just because of cgi and special effects, but the director really had the audience taste and feel the horrors and realities of war. The little girl frozen in fear as people were being killed and raped behind her was very emotional. Capturing the horrors of war through Arya's perspective, literally running for her life, was quite moving. I felt as if I was right there. The Clegane battle scene was breathtaking - the Red Keep crumbling behind them, the dragon breathing fire flying above them. The director captured the Hound's hatred of his brother, as he overcame his fear of flames as he had them both plunge to the fiery hell below them. Really breathtaking scene"
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Post by volleyguy on May 14, 2019 0:53:50 GMT -5
Some interesting insight from another board: "I will say this: I respect the hell of what the art department on this show consistently churned out, not just this season but all eight seasons." "I have a lot of criticism about the writing, but the filmmaking for GoT 8.5 was first-class. Not just because of cgi and special effects, but the director really had the audience taste and feel the horrors and realities of war. The little girl frozen in fear as people were being killed and raped behind her was very emotional. Capturing the horrors of war through Arya's perspective, literally running for her life, was quite moving. I felt as if I was right there. The Clegane battle scene was breathtaking - the Red Keep crumbling behind them, the dragon breathing fire flying above them. The director captured the Hound's hatred of his brother, as he overcame his fear of flames as he had them both plunge to the fiery hell below them. Really breathtaking scene" I liked the battle between the Hound and the Mountain, although the Hound plunged his sword into the Mountain, and later, when the Mountain's armor was off exposing his big belly, there was no wound on him.
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Post by XAsstCoach on May 14, 2019 1:14:11 GMT -5
Higher the risk, Higher the reward. Kind of agreed with an article about this line in the show: Varys may have been trying to poison Dany in order for John to ascend.
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Post by XAsstCoach on May 14, 2019 1:18:19 GMT -5
I liked the battle between the Hound and the Mountain, although the Hound plunged his sword into the Mountain, and later, when the Mountain's armor was off exposing his big belly, there was no wound on him. Thought I saw a wound below to the left of his right nipple. Speaking of Ser Gregor, would he have died from the plunge? He was stabbed upteen times, knife through his eyes and out the back of his skull, he took the brunt of the castle falling to protect Cersei...would falling so high and into the fire really kill him? Could have been interesting to see him face the Night King.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 14, 2019 1:19:40 GMT -5
I presume fire would have killed him. Unanimated his body. De-zombified him. -- Whatever the correct terminology might be.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 14, 2019 2:02:32 GMT -5
I think part of the problem was show pacing. And part of it was that Dani had been (mostly silently) leaning more and more and more toward this decision, but we were mostly distracted from it by the Night King. Dani has shown in the past that she understands some people only understand power and fear. She gained control of the Dothraki by being willing to mass-murder all the Khals. She had her Unsullied and dragons kill all the "Good Masters" of Astapor. She nails up 163 "Great Masters" of Mereen in punishment for their similar actions with slave children. She kills the "Wise Masters" of Yunkai.
Perhaps crucially most of this happened away from Westeros. Her other enemies understood that she wanted to be a good ruler, but she was also willing to rule by terror and fear if need be. Cersei seemed to believe Dani was another Ned Stark or Jon Snow -- someone whose code of honor would limit them in a dirty war. But Dani has always been willing to fight dirty and do things the Starks would not.
However, in the leadup to the conflict in Westeros, all we saw was the good side of Dani (except for her insistance about everyone "bending the knee"). The execution of the Tarlys seemed shocking because she was still talking about winning hearts and minds rather than conquering with fire and death. But her destruction of King's Landing can be seen as a calculated decision to show everyone in Westeros exactly what she was capable of doing to people who defy her.
I think we would have been more ready for this if we had seen a few more counselors advising her to show her strength and rule by fear. Olenna Tyrell told her this, and so did Missandei (in her last word). Critically, they were women. Her male counselors all told her to seek peaceful means and restrict civilian casualties.
The act of murdering a surrendered city can be seen as a deliberate, calculated move by a Queen who realizes that the men of Westeros will never fully accept her rule unless she shows them that she can be as vicious and murdering as any of them.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 7:49:02 GMT -5
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Post by akbar on May 14, 2019 8:24:33 GMT -5
Its fascinating that some fans, here and elsewhere, have come full circle in their view of Episode 5 The Bells.
Emotions clearly are running higher than ever but maybe clarity is emerging as things settled down.
Theories remain active involving Bran, John/Dani, Tyrion's actual family.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 14, 2019 8:31:31 GMT -5
The thing is, while the decision to burn King's Landing (and Varis) certainly showed her to be a credible threat to cities (or people) who defy her rule, it also made her even more vulnerable to a whispering campaign that Jon Snow (who is male, who has a better hereditary claim, and who did NOT just burn King's Landing) would be a better king. Those who think Dani is an unstable murderer will want her gone, while those who think Jon Snow would be much more easily manipulated will ALSO want her gone.
And she's *very* vulnerable when she's not sitting on top of her dragon. Unlike Jon Snow, she has no personal fighting skills or experience. She no longer has a trusted female companion. She no longer has Jorah. She has Grey Worm, but he had been planning to leave her once she won the throne. With no Missandei, will he now be willing to stay by her as a bodyguard? And of course she has Jon Snow, who has sworn to be loyal to her but is also the greatest threat facing her. Jon has been shown to be ferocious in personal battle -- though so has Grey Worm.
Who could she trust as a Kingsguard? Brienne is pretty much aligned with the Starks, and isn't the type to support someone who burns a city. She's maybe got a few longtime loyalist Dothraki and Unsullied, but will they want to spend the rest of their lives in cold, foreign Westeros?
And you know that one way or another Tyrion is gone. So she has no Hand or no Spymaster. Ser Davos was also aligned with Jon. Yara may feel more loyalty to the Starks than to Dani (or may feel like the dragon is the only thing keeping the Iron Islands from going back to their raiding ways). Would Dorne support her over a chance to be independent? What if Jon offered to let the kingdoms be independent again -- would any of them support Dani as their Queen v. Jon offering them independence?
It all comes down to her dragon. If she were to suffer an "accident", as Robert did or as Joffrey did, would the dragon just leave? Would it be under Jon Snow's control?
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Post by mikegarrison on May 14, 2019 8:44:07 GMT -5
This reminds me of the end of WW2.
The war was won. Japan was going to lose -- it was just a question of how Japan was going to lose. The Soviets were preparing to enter the war. The US made the decision to drop nuclear weapons as a show of force to both Japan and the Soviets. By dropping two in three days, it seemed like the US could keep doing it forever. (Secretly, those were the only two nuclear weapons the US had.)
This show of force finally convinced Japan to surrender and ended the war. It also left the Soviets shut out of Japan. But what if the US had been not the most powerful country in the world but actually a young woman who someone could assassinate? Then what would have happened?
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Post by mikegarrison on May 14, 2019 9:03:44 GMT -5
You perhaps should have also quoted his final paragraph: Or if not the dragon, her own personal life. Either one would do to make the dragon an ineffective threat.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 14, 2019 9:10:19 GMT -5
So generally I think we are set up for Dani to die. Both the classical dramatic form of tragedy and also the political situation in Westeros lead to the idea that she can and will be killed. Bronn's crossbow, perhaps? If Tyrion is denounced for treason, then Bronn's only hope for a castle would be to save Tyrion one more time.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 10:23:09 GMT -5
You perhaps should have also quoted his final paragraph: Or if not the dragon, her own personal life. Either one would do to make the dragon an ineffective threat.
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Post by ilikecorn on May 14, 2019 11:57:22 GMT -5
So generally I think we are set up for Dani to die. Both the classical dramatic form of tragedy and also the political situation in Westeros lead to the idea that she can and will be killed. Bronn's crossbow, perhaps? If Tyrion is denounced for treason, then Bronn's only hope for a castle would be to save Tyrion one more time.I would not mind this. I like Bronn.
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