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Apr 10, 2019 17:50:38 GMT -5
Post by Fight On! on Apr 10, 2019 17:50:38 GMT -5
Okay, back to my question then. If there are 0.6% of the population that are transgendered AND given the USAV has a set policy for this AND given there are 400,000 girls playing club/HS, this means there should be 2,400 MTF athletes playing VB. Does anyone think there are? Has anyone seen this in club or HS? Or is this a complete non-issue (that does not make sense because why would USAV make rules if no one is using the rules?). I think there are some logical fallacies here. Of the 400,000 girls playing vball, maybe some are transexual girls (i.e., were born with boy parts). The question is how many teenage boys are playing vball? How many of them are going to transition to being teenage girls? Of those, how many want to keep playing vball? There may be a few teenage boys who transition, then decide to pick up vball and compete, but then they are probably way behind on skills.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:03:18 GMT -5
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Post by volleycoach75 on Apr 10, 2019 19:03:18 GMT -5
Recently there have been stories in local and (sometimes) national news about transgendered teens competing (and dominating) in sports. It appears to be at the high school and the club level. Most of the stories I have read or seen have been Track and Field (runners mostly) and Wrestling. I can see why those would be the sports most affected given muscle mass considerations and where 15-18 year old boys could dominated girls sports. Why is volleyball not affected in the same way? Is the height difference of a teen boy not as significant as the muscle mass advantage? Or are there just not that many transgendered teens competing in HS and club volleyball yet? I think you see more trans athletes in track & field because the sport has generally been more open and accepting than most other sports. You also tend to see more (out) lgbtq athletes in track & field.
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Post by holidayhusker on Apr 10, 2019 19:11:11 GMT -5
The volleyball shorts wouldn't conceal a bulge very effectively. Ok this is Not needed. There is one thing to debate about the subject from a Scientific viewpoint, and then things like this, which are just uncalled for. If you aren't going to participate in this discussion in an Intelligent manner, you need to not participate in this thread. Bottom line? Its just not fair to have a bioligical male playing in a competitive womens sport. Its an unfair advantage. I posted about this the first time around and got slammed for daring to state the truth. Lets be honest. You guys really don't want an intellgent discussion concerning this subject. You want posters in agreement with your point of view or whatever you view as PC.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:19:29 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 19:19:29 GMT -5
Ok this is Not needed. There is one thing to debate about the subject from a Scientific viewpoint, and then things like this, which are just uncalled for. If you aren't going to participate in this discussion in an Intelligent manner, you need to not participate in this thread. Bottom line? Its just not fair to have a bioligical male playing in a competitive womens sport. Its an unfair advantage. I posted about this the first time around and got slammed for daring to state the truth. Lets be honest. You guys really don't want an intellgent discussion concerning this subject. You want posters in agreement with your point of view or whatever you view as PC. Nice touch, hh: 'liking' your own post!!
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Apr 10, 2019 19:32:03 GMT -5
Post by WahineFan44 on Apr 10, 2019 19:32:03 GMT -5
Ok this is Not needed. There is one thing to debate about the subject from a Scientific viewpoint, and then things like this, which are just uncalled for. If you aren't going to participate in this discussion in an Intelligent manner, you need to not participate in this thread. Bottom line? Its just not fair to have a bioligical male playing in a competitive womens sport. Its an unfair advantage. I posted about this the first time around and got slammed for daring to state the truth. Lets be honest. You guys really don't want an intellgent discussion concerning this subject. You want posters in agreement with your point of view or whatever you view as PC. What does this have anything to do with my post? Can you read or not. I clearly stated I dont have an opinion on this subject as I can UNDERSTAND both sides when it comes to the sports aspect of it. Its a tricky subject and with the correct evidence and without transphobia involved I would understand someones other opinion. I FULLY support transgenders rights, freedoms, and will address them with the way they chose to be, but with sports it can get tricky and I understand that. I don't agree with it PERSAY but I do understand. BUT what I dont agree with is saying stuff like " They cant hide their bulge" As if that has any relevance to the subject on why or why not they should be able to compete. If you arent going to read my post. please don't quote them.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:33:38 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 19:33:38 GMT -5
Sesc-Rio`s coach legendary coach Bernardinho said one of Tiffany`s spike was a "man`s spike" during a game. He was very criticized for saying that but Tiffany actually came in his defense by saying he was right.
She said she started volleyball as a man, so obviously she learned the men`s game and that is very different from the women`s game. So she still uses some of the male techniques for passing ans spiking.
So when Bernardinho called her spike a "man`s spike" she said he was right because she was spiking the ball like male players does. I can`t describe exactly how it is, but it is something like with her hand movements as male does and not females. And that is something very difficult to do that`s why when Bernardinho saw it he called it right away.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:57:09 GMT -5
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Post by badgerbill on Apr 10, 2019 19:57:09 GMT -5
Get over it. Transgender vball players should be welcome! I have seen cis gender females hammer the ball like cis gendered men.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:02:33 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgang on Apr 10, 2019 20:02:33 GMT -5
Great. Now I have to look up "cis."
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Apr 10, 2019 20:03:09 GMT -5
maɡˈnōlēə likes this
Post by Brutus Buckeye on Apr 10, 2019 20:03:09 GMT -5
Cisgendered is a pretty funny term for regular folk.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:06:57 GMT -5
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Post by Fight On! on Apr 10, 2019 20:06:57 GMT -5
Great. Now I have to look up "cis." It’s all in the other threads
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Apr 10, 2019 20:07:55 GMT -5
Post by WahineFan44 on Apr 10, 2019 20:07:55 GMT -5
Great. Now I have to look up "cis." Comfortable in skin. Meaning you are ok with the gender you are born in
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Apr 10, 2019 20:07:57 GMT -5
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Post by Fight On! on Apr 10, 2019 20:07:57 GMT -5
Cisgendered is a pretty funny term for regular folk. Wait, you tried to imply above that your posts are intelligent. Now you admit you are not. Gotcha
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Apr 10, 2019 20:09:17 GMT -5
Post by mikegarrison on Apr 10, 2019 20:09:17 GMT -5
It's not a subjective standard. USAV has set out, in accordance with international governing body guidelines, the determination for transgender participation. There have been internationally accepted guidelines on the subject for more than 10 years. Here is a link to the clarification from USAV in 2017 on the subject: www.teamusa.org/USA-Volleyball/Features/2017/April/07/USAV-Clarifies-its-Transgender-GuidelinesGiven that approximately .6% of US adults identify as transgender, we can assume for the most part, that percentage isn't going to be higher for people between the ages of 14 and 18, as the OP is asking. We are talking about a number of athletes that is unlikely to in any way significantly affect outcomes in our sport. Okay, back to my question then. If there are 0.6% of the population that are transgendered AND given the USAV has a set policy for this AND given there are 400,000 girls playing club/HS, this means there should be 2,400 MTF athletes playing VB. Does anyone think there are? Has anyone seen this in club or HS? Or is this a complete non-issue (that does not make sense because why would USAV make rules if no one is using the rules?). First of all, it was stated that 0.6% of adults transgendered. Without any other data, I'll assume that means 50/50 which way they transitioned. So only 0.3% would be male->female. Another article I read, which also quoted the 0.6% number, said there were 150,000 children in the US between 13 and 17 who identify as transgender. So if half those are male to female, that means there are only about 75,000 transgendered children who might be involved as playing girls volleyball. But what percentage of girls play girls volleyball? Well, there are about 7.5M girls in US high schools and about 400,000 of them play volleyball. So that's 5%. 5% of the 75,000 male to female transgendered girls would be 3750. This number is probably a little high, as it implies a 1% transgender rate rather than a 0.6% transgender rate. So ... call it 2250, or about the same number you came up with. I think this means that either a) transgendered girls are less likely than average to want to play volleyball, or b) 2250 out of 400,000 is just too small of a number to notice (in a club of 300 players, that would be 2 of them). If male to female transgendered youths really had a huge advantage, like say those 2 kids were among the best 5 in the 300-person club, I think it would be noticed. That implies to me that either a) transgendered kids are less likely yo play volleyball, or else the physical advantages aren't so huge that they get noticed as being among the top players in the clubs.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:10:12 GMT -5
Post by WahineFan44 on Apr 10, 2019 20:10:12 GMT -5
Get over it. Transgender vball players should be welcome! I have seen cis gender females hammer the ball like cis gendered men. This is also a good point. I think there will NEVER be consensus on this issue, even when transphonia is completely removed from the picture. Its a great subject to talk about IMO though because you can educate people either way, and eliminate transphobia in the proccess, even if their opinons on wether not they should be playing or not change.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:12:45 GMT -5
Post by WahineFan44 on Apr 10, 2019 20:12:45 GMT -5
Okay, back to my question then. If there are 0.6% of the population that are transgendered AND given the USAV has a set policy for this AND given there are 400,000 girls playing club/HS, this means there should be 2,400 MTF athletes playing VB. Does anyone think there are? Has anyone seen this in club or HS? Or is this a complete non-issue (that does not make sense because why would USAV make rules if no one is using the rules?). First of all, it was stated that 0.6% of adults transgendered. Without any other data, I'll assume that means 50/50 which way they transitioned. So only 0.3% would be male->female. Another article I read, which also quoted the 0.6% number, said there were 150,000 children in the US between 13 and 17 who identify as transgender. So if half those are male to female, that means there are only about 75,000 transgendered children who might be involved as playing girls volleyball. But what percentage of girls play girls volleyball? Well, there are about 7.5M girls in US high schools and about 400,000 of them play volleyball. So that's 5%. 5% of the 75,000 male to female transgendered girls would be 3750. This number is probably a little high, as it implies a 1% transgender rate rather than a 0.6% transgender rate. So ... call it 2250, or about the same number you came up with. I think this means that either a) transgendered girls are less likely than average to want to play volleyball, or b) 2250 out of 400,000 is just too small of a number to notice (in a club of 300 players, that would be 2 of them). If male to female transgendered youths really had a huge advantage, like say those 2 kids were among the best 5 in the 300-person club, I think it would be noticed. That implies to me that either a) transgendered kids are less likely yo play volleyball, or else the physical advantages aren't so huge that they get noticed as being among the top players in the clubs. Does Club or Usa volley in general have any rules regarding this subject? Im genuinly curious on what the official stance is as I cannot find anything as of right now
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