|
Post by junior1 on Jun 11, 2019 14:05:02 GMT -5
I've been watching the VNL. Love to see it when it is available.
Loved watching the improvement I've seen in recent years with Turkey and China (countries where their head coaches get to work with their athletes in professional leagues). Guidetti's work with VakiBank has established a dynamic core that few teams can match. Karakurt, Ozbay, Caliskan, Gunes look like a practiced confident squad. It is like having an NBA championship team adding in a few extra Americans and competing for a million dollars. It is an advantage. One that Jenny Lang Ping has in China, too.
Here in the U.S., our women don't have that advantage. However, getting our ladies quality competition to grow is (by playing against them). So many of them are neophytes internationally.
Watching the Turkish squad was cool this morning. Last year, we saw all their failings and foibles, just like last night and versus Brazil, we saw some U.S. ladies not have great games.
As far as I know, the VNL is a great opportunity to try new things and get as many personnel reps as possible. Last year, many Nations did not send their best to play VNL and this is true again this year. Winning the VNL does not grant the U.S. a bid to the Olympics
I believe the 2019 goal is to qualify for the Olympic games...
Which tournaments are then the priority? Pan American? (July) FIVB Intercontinental Olympic Qualification Tournament? (August) Norceca? (August, October) FIVB World Cup? (September)
If the upcoming FIVB events are it, please let's keep on mixing and matching and building. Watching their failures and foibles and successes and then see if we can improve their games through practice and teaching (right now it seems the coaching job is more that of managing & of strategizing) and see what happens. ...and please give our players the options to grow. The greatest growth comes from the greatest set-backs.
|
|
|
Post by ToddyJ on Jun 11, 2019 21:15:07 GMT -5
I’m definitely guilty of getting irritated when we play as badly as we have the past two matches. I know growth is going to come but it just seems to be coming so late in this quad. I think USA will qualify for the OG. I am hoping the World Cup shows all 12 teams at their best rosters so we can really see where we stand.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2019 21:22:14 GMT -5
I presume this is the order based off the most to least priority:
1. FIVB Intercontinental Olympic Qualification Tournament 2. FIVB World Cup T3. Norceca/Pan American
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on Jun 11, 2019 21:25:01 GMT -5
The Olympic qualification tournament is definitely the priority, not just for the US, but for all teams aiming to get into the Olympics. This year, everything else is expendable, even the World Cup perhaps.
|
|
|
Post by vup on Jun 11, 2019 21:50:20 GMT -5
I've been watching the VNL. Love to see it when it is available. Loved watching the improvement I've seen in recent years with Turkey and China (countries where their head coaches get to work with their athletes in professional leagues). Guidetti's work with VakiBank has established a dynamic core that few teams can match. Karakurt, Ozbay, Caliskan, Gunes look like a practiced confident squad. It is like having an NBA championship team adding in a few extra Americans and competing for a million dollars. It is an advantage. One that Jenny Lang Ping has in China, too. Here in the U.S., our women don't have that advantage. However, getting our ladies quality competition to grow is (by playing against them). So many of them are neophytes internationally. Watching the Turkish squad was cool this morning. Last year, we saw all their failings and foibles, just like last night and versus Brazil, we saw some U.S. ladies not have great games. As far as I know, the VNL is a great opportunity to try new things and get as many personnel reps as possible. Last year, many Nations did not send their best to play VNL and this is true again this year. Winning the VNL does not grant the U.S. a bid to the OlympicsI believe the 2019 goal is to qualify for the Olympic games... Which tournaments are then the priority? Pan American? (July) FIVB Intercontinental Olympic Qualification Tournament? (August) Norceca? (August, October) FIVB World Cup? (September) If the upcoming FIVB events are it, please let's keep on mixing and matching and building. Watching their failures and foibles and successes and then see if we can improve their games through practice and teaching (right now it seems the coaching job is more that of managing & of strategizing) and see what happens. ...and please give our players the options to grow. The greatest growth comes from the greatest set-backs. The underlined bit is not entirely true. While many teams did not send their best teams to play during the preliminary rounds, most of the big names were on the rosters for the final six of VNL 2018. China was playing with Zhu, Gong, Li, Yuan. Serbia was playing with Boskovic, Rasic. Netherlands was playing with Sloetjes, Buis, Plak. And hey, USA won gold at that tournament playing Larson, Bartsch, Robinson, Hill, Akinradewo, Murphy, Drews, Dixon. Anyway, I think the ranking is: 1. IOQT 2. World Cup 3. VNL 4. Pan-American Cup
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Jun 11, 2019 21:56:57 GMT -5
The results from the World Championships, World Cup and Olympics are each worth up to 100 points towards determining the FIVB World Ranking, while the NVL is worth up to 50 points. Qualifying for the Olympics has to be the highest priority, but we have a fairly easy road to Olympic Qualification. The world ranking determines the seeds and brackets at the Olympics and we can't really afford to dismiss or devalue any of the points earning tournaments, unless we try to game the system and try to end up as the 4th seed to match up with the host, and therefore first seed, Japan. On the other hand, we might be better off playing in the tougher pool to take advantage of the cross-over, except we have a lot of points to make up to displace either Serbia or China, the current #1 and #2. Whoever places high in the VNL between China and Serbia will be the #1 in the world rankings going into the World Cup.
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on Jun 12, 2019 6:30:35 GMT -5
The results from the World Championships, World Cup and Olympics are each worth up to 100 points towards determining the FIVB World Ranking, while the NVL is worth up to 50 points. Qualifying for the Olympics has to be the highest priority, but we have a fairly easy road to Olympic Qualification. The world ranking determines the seeds and brackets at the Olympics and we can't really afford to dismiss or devalue any of the points earning tournaments, unless we try to game the system and try to end up as the 4th seed to match up with the host, and therefore first seed, Japan. On the other hand, we might be better off playing in the tougher pool to take advantage of the cross-over, except we have a lot of points to make up to displace either Serbia or China, the current #1 and #2. Whoever places high in the VNL between China and Serbia will be the #1 in the world rankings going into the World Cup. True, but given how packed the schedule is this year, it may be unavoidable for some teams to be a bit strategic in picking which tournmanet they focus on. It would be mighty callous for a team to risk injuries to their best players by playing all out in all tournaments. Some teams do not have the luxury of going all out in every tournament they are in, they have to decide which tournament matters most.
|
|
|
Post by vbnerd on Jun 12, 2019 8:00:31 GMT -5
In the US sports landscape, as presently set, the US men's and women's volleyball teams derive money, attention, future players, etc. from Olympic success, and the expectation of Olympic Success (a medal we see coming is more valuable in marketing dollars than a surprise upset medal).
Those points may help in the Olympics, and they help with expectations but I wonder if USA Volleyball got one additional marketing dollar because of the World Cup win a few years back. I doubt there were any little girls who decided to play volleyball because of that run. Maybe they picked up some social media followers, and of course the prize money, but its all nothing compared to Olympic Success which can deliver a Wheaties Box cover, Sports Illustrated, mainstream media coverage.
So 1. Olympics 2. Everything else
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Jun 12, 2019 9:51:34 GMT -5
In the US sports landscape, as presently set, the US men's and women's volleyball teams derive money, attention, future players, etc. from Olympic success, and the expectation of Olympic Success (a medal we see coming is more valuable in marketing dollars than a surprise upset medal). Those points may help in the Olympics, and they help with expectations but I wonder if USA Volleyball got one additional marketing dollar because of the World Cup win a few years back. I doubt there were any little girls who decided to play volleyball because of that run. Maybe they picked up some social media followers, and of course the prize money, but its all nothing compared to Olympic Success which can deliver a Wheaties Box cover, Sports Illustrated, mainstream media coverage. So 1. Olympics 2. Everything else That's old school marketing. USA Volleyball was never very good at that either. I think Logan Tom wrapped in the American flag in a bikini was perhaps the most (or one of the most) attention-getting marketing efforts ever for an indoor volleyball player, but that was done by a magazine (Misty and Kerri had many, but they were in bikinis as well). USAV marketing efforts are simply not very good, particularly in the social media age. A different approach and investment is desperately needed.
|
|
|
Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 12, 2019 12:27:59 GMT -5
The results from the World Championships, World Cup and Olympics are each worth up to 100 points towards determining the FIVB World Ranking, while the NVL is worth up to 50 points. Qualifying for the Olympics has to be the highest priority, but we have a fairly easy road to Olympic Qualification. The world ranking determines the seeds and brackets at the Olympics and we can't really afford to dismiss or devalue any of the points earning tournaments, unless we try to game the system and try to end up as the 4th seed to match up with the host, and therefore first seed, Japan. On the other hand, we might be better off playing in the tougher pool to take advantage of the cross-over, except we have a lot of points to make up to displace either Serbia or China, the current #1 and #2. Whoever places high in the VNL between China and Serbia will be the #1 in the world rankings going into the World Cup. Is the FIVB keeping to its current ranking system? I thought they were re-doing the whole thing, or at least making an adjustment since the World Cup is devalued this year.
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Jun 12, 2019 12:35:24 GMT -5
The results from the World Championships, World Cup and Olympics are each worth up to 100 points towards determining the FIVB World Ranking, while the NVL is worth up to 50 points. Qualifying for the Olympics has to be the highest priority, but we have a fairly easy road to Olympic Qualification. The world ranking determines the seeds and brackets at the Olympics and we can't really afford to dismiss or devalue any of the points earning tournaments, unless we try to game the system and try to end up as the 4th seed to match up with the host, and therefore first seed, Japan. On the other hand, we might be better off playing in the tougher pool to take advantage of the cross-over, except we have a lot of points to make up to displace either Serbia or China, the current #1 and #2. Whoever places high in the VNL between China and Serbia will be the #1 in the world rankings going into the World Cup. Is the FIVB keeping to its current ranking system? I thought they were re-doing the whole thing, or at least making an adjustment since the World Cup is devalued this year. I kind of remember hearing that too, but I checked before I posted, and didn't find corroboration. I think maybe it is (or was) being lowered to 50 points this year. But either way, we're pretty far behind both Serbia and China in points and unlikely to over-take either one. Falling lower is our best option if we are trying to game the serpentine pool seeding, although with really tough teams with lower rankings, like Italy or Turkey, it's probably not a useful strategy anyway in this quad.
|
|
|
Post by speegs13 on Jun 12, 2019 12:46:13 GMT -5
Is the FIVB keeping to its current ranking system? I thought they were re-doing the whole thing, or at least making an adjustment since the World Cup is devalued this year. I kind of remember hearing that too, but I checked before I posted, and didn't find corroboration. I think maybe it is (or was) being lowered to 50 points this year. But either way, we're pretty far behind both Serbia and China in points and unlikely to over-take either one. Falling lower is our best option if we are trying to game the serpentine pool seeding, although with really tough teams with lower rankings, like Italy or Turkey, it's probably not a useful strategy anyway in this quad. I think I read in a Polish article (I can't find the link at the moment) that the FIVB is formulating more of a "moving average" ranking similar to either FIFA or the FIBA. This would take into account individual matches/opponents at a tournament rather than overall finish at a tournament. No clue if they plan to implement this during 2019, before or after the Olympics though.
|
|
|
Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 12, 2019 13:12:47 GMT -5
I kind of remember hearing that too, but I checked before I posted, and didn't find corroboration. I think maybe it is (or was) being lowered to 50 points this year. But either way, we're pretty far behind both Serbia and China in points and unlikely to over-take either one. Falling lower is our best option if we are trying to game the serpentine pool seeding, although with really tough teams with lower rankings, like Italy or Turkey, it's probably not a useful strategy anyway in this quad. I think I read in a Polish article (I can't find the link at the moment) that the FIVB is formulating more of a "moving average" ranking similar to either FIFA or the FIBA. This would take into account individual matches/opponents at a tournament rather than overall finish at a tournament. No clue if they plan to implement this during 2019, before or after the Olympics though. I'm sure FIVB will be secretive enough until they learn how to game it. While FIVB has been perfectly happy with structuring huge biases toward teams from Asia (well.. mostly Japan) and the Americas, they do have to sit and wonder what to do when strong teams from Poland and Turkey (their two be$t markets in Europe alongside Italy) can't qualify for jack. Eventually they are going to start realizing how it's hitting their pocketbooks.
|
|
|
Post by ToddyJ on Jun 12, 2019 13:12:53 GMT -5
Actually the VNL does NOT count towards world ranking points which is why I think the FIVB is revamping their current system.
Currently the way the Top 12 world ranked teams would be seeded at the Olympics would be:
Pool A: Japan USA Brazil Italy Korea Turkey
Pool B: Serbia China Russia Netherlands Dominican Republic Argentina
In this order Pool A is definitely tougher but with the way the qualification process works and the way teams are seeded in the IOQT it is not likely that all 5 of China, Italy, Netherlands, Turkey and Korea will qualify. Plus we will have one vastly weaker team from CAVB that will also qualify.
I’ve said it before and many on here disagree with me. I am pulling for a more upset minded IOQT.
Predicted Pool Winners & Darkhorse (Upsets):
Pool A: Serbia / Dark H: Poland Pool B: China / Dark H: Turkey Pool C: USA / Dark H: None Pool D: Brazil / Dark H: Dominican Republic OR Azerbaijan. Pool E: Russia / Dark H: Not likely though I would welcome any of the other three teams (Korea/Canada/Mexico) to upset Russia. Pool F: Italy / Dark H: Netherlands
Not going to lie I kind of wish this was the process going forward for future quads because it gives other lower ranked teams who might not have a chance with Continental Qualification to take a possible Olympic Berth.
I do still think the World Cup should qualify the top 2 teams that way coaches take the tournament seriously.
Just some thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Jun 12, 2019 13:23:42 GMT -5
|
|