|
Post by eyelander on Oct 20, 2019 3:58:11 GMT -5
My point exactly. Hawai’i is a balanced team as is Kamehameha. You take out one exceptional player and that messes with the chemistry and play. Until the last couple of matches, they’ve been having a difficult time dispatching lesser competition, like Irvine. I totally agree that without Oglivie, Iolani would have been highly overmatched, but they still took the more balanced team to 5 with a (wo)man team, suffering a reverse sweep. IMO, without Akana or Kahahawai, Iolani would’ve swept or win in 4. We’ll never know. No that was not your point. I'm the one that brought up the balanced offense of Kamehameha and Hawai`i. and losing a key player for either team would definitely cause major problems.
|
|
|
Post by kolohekeiki on Oct 20, 2019 4:02:01 GMT -5
No that was not your point. I'm the one that brought up the balanced offense of Kamehameha and Hawai`i. and losing a key player for either team would definitely cause major problems. You're obviously not grasping the concept or the difference. No point in responding anymore.
|
|
|
Post by eyelander on Oct 20, 2019 4:05:19 GMT -5
and losing a key player for either team would definitely cause major problems. You're obviously not grasping the concept or the difference. No point in responding anymore. Im grasping them well enough. You have your opinion and I have mine. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
|
|
|
Post by HawaiiVB on Oct 20, 2019 10:51:55 GMT -5
You take Elena out, Iolani will not even be vying for a spot in the state tournament. You take Akana or Kahahawai out Kamehameha will still be one of the top ILH teams, because they are BALANCED. Kamehameha still has other options and offensive weapons, Iolani doesn't. Akana or Kahahawai does not win the matches single handedly for Kamehameha while Elena does for Iolani. Yeah Kamehameha won't be as good, but they will still be a top team, whereas Iolani wouldn't. And no it's not the same as Hawai'i. Jolie was not single handedly winning matches herself. She had help. Yes she makes a difference, but not the sole reason the Wahine were winning. My point exactly. Hawai’i is a balanced team as is Kamehameha. You take out one exceptional player and that messes with the chemistry and play. Until the last couple of matches, they’ve been having a difficult time dispatching lesser competition, like Irvine. I totally agree that without Oglivie, Iolani would have been highly overmatched, but they still took the more balanced team to 5 with a (wo)man team, suffering a reverse sweep. IMO, without Akana or Kahahawai, Iolani would’ve swept or win in 4. We’ll never know. I don’t think it’s just not having a dominant player that Hawai’i is/was feeling, especially with UC Irvine. It was fatigue and confidence break down from a freshman and transfer heavy starting team. And yes all teams have to adjust playing with each other, but usually, when a team has many new parts, they have to work it out. Sometimes a major change in the line up is all it takes for freshmen starters to second guess their abilities. Not to mention schoolwork and fatigue. This season is an indicator that parity is here and any team can beat you because great coaching and talent are so spread out.
|
|
|
Post by eyelander on Oct 20, 2019 14:32:38 GMT -5
My point exactly. Hawai’i is a balanced team as is Kamehameha. You take out one exceptional player and that messes with the chemistry and play. Until the last couple of matches, they’ve been having a difficult time dispatching lesser competition, like Irvine. I totally agree that without Oglivie, Iolani would have been highly overmatched, but they still took the more balanced team to 5 with a (wo)man team, suffering a reverse sweep. IMO, without Akana or Kahahawai, Iolani would’ve swept or win in 4. We’ll never know. I don’t think it’s just not having a dominant player that Hawai’i is/was feeling, especially with UC Irvine. It was fatigue and confidence break down from a freshman and transfer heavy starting team. And yes all teams have to adjust playing with each other, but usually, when a team has many new parts, they have to work it out. Sometimes a major change in the line up is all it takes for freshmen starters to second guess their abilities. Not to mention schoolwork and fatigue. This season is an indicator that parity is here and any team can beat you because great coaching and talent are so spread out. I agree with you. It just seems that the rest of the Iolani team wasn’t given any credit, that Oglivie was a one man team and the only reason for their success and that Kamehameha was so balanced that missing one part would do nothing to hurt them. Yes, without Oglivie, Iolani would’ve had a much more difficult task of winning, but without Akana or Kahahawai, Kamehameha doesn’t automatically win either.
|
|
|
Post by HawaiiVB on Oct 20, 2019 14:51:02 GMT -5
I don’t think it’s just not having a dominant player that Hawai’i is/was feeling, especially with UC Irvine. It was fatigue and confidence break down from a freshman and transfer heavy starting team. And yes all teams have to adjust playing with each other, but usually, when a team has many new parts, they have to work it out. Sometimes a major change in the line up is all it takes for freshmen starters to second guess their abilities. Not to mention schoolwork and fatigue. This season is an indicator that parity is here and any team can beat you because great coaching and talent are so spread out. I agree with you. It just seems that the rest of the Iolani team wasn’t given any credit, that Oglivie was a one man team and the only reason for their success and that Kamehameha was so balanced that missing one part would do nothing to hurt them. Yes, without Oglivie, Iolani would’ve had a much more difficult task of winning, but without Akana or Kahahawai, Kamehameha doesn’t automatically win either. Iolani this season was tough. Their floor defense kept them in the match. A little undersized this year but they have weapons. Kamehameha wanted to let Elena swing out and tire in the fifth but shut down the other OH and the middles which they did.
|
|
|
Post by eyelander on Oct 20, 2019 15:04:02 GMT -5
I agree with you. It just seems that the rest of the Iolani team wasn’t given any credit, that Oglivie was a one man team and the only reason for their success and that Kamehameha was so balanced that missing one part would do nothing to hurt them. Yes, without Oglivie, Iolani would’ve had a much more difficult task of winning, but without Akana or Kahahawai, Kamehameha doesn’t automatically win either. Iolani this season was tough. Their floor defense kept them in the match. A little undersized this year but they have weapons. Kamehameha wanted to let Elena swing out and tire in the fifth but shut down the other OH and the middles which they did. Watching the match on TV, I thought damn these girls can play and bang, even out of system plays, and this is regarding both teams. That’s what I meant by the quality of the match. When I watched the OIA championship, no knock on the girls, but overall the level of play wasn’t the same for me. I did enjoy the play of a few of the girls though, Bautista and Danielson, just to name a couple.
|
|
|
Post by Pipe Attack on Oct 20, 2019 15:38:49 GMT -5
You take Elena out, Iolani will not even be vying for a spot in the state tournament. You take Akana or Kahahawai out Kamehameha will still be one of the top ILH teams, because they are BALANCED. Kamehameha still has other options and offensive weapons, Iolani doesn't. Akana or Kahahawai does not win the matches single handedly for Kamehameha while Elena does for Iolani. Yeah Kamehameha won't be as good, but they will still be a top team, whereas Iolani wouldn't. And no it's not the same as Hawai'i. Jolie was not single handedly winning matches herself. She had help. Yes she makes a difference, but not the sole reason the Wahine were winning. My point exactly. Hawai’i is a balanced team as is Kamehameha. You take out one exceptional player and that messes with the chemistry and play. Until the last couple of matches, they’ve been having a difficult time dispatching lesser competition, like Irvine. I totally agree that without Oglivie, Iolani would have been highly overmatched, but they still took the more balanced team to 5 with a (wo)man team, suffering a reverse sweep. IMO, without Akana or Kahahawai, Iolani would’ve swept or win in 4. We’ll never know. Nope! And a couple posters are trying to explain this. Oglivie WAS the team. No one is comparable - it's not a 1:1 comparison -- Oglivie has a greater value, pulls more weight. From an offensive standpoint only: Take Elena Oglivie out vs. Kamehameha pins (Devin, Akana, Robins) --> Kamehameha wins (probably easily) Take Elena out vs. also take out one of the Kamehameha pins --> Kamehameha still wins. Put Elena in vs. Kamehameha without one of the three pins --> Iolani probably wins. Elena WAS Iolani. No real sense comparing University of Hawaii and Kamehameha. It's not the same. Oglive's absence has a greater impact on her team to any of the Kamehameha pins on their team. Sure, it takes a team effort, but we are just assuming everything else is equal, which is seemed it was. I still think Iolani could have pulled it out had the coach rested her in the fourth when the fifth set was impending. Also, Iolani's setter should have purely just gone to her in the front row to start off the fifth. Elena Oglive was huge for Iolani. Moving forward, it will probably be Kamehameha and Punahou in years to come. Kamehameha has such a pool of talent to choose from that come from all over the island. Punahou can pretty much scholarship anyone they want. So, also, before anyone also says ILH is so dominant ... just remember they have the ability to pull the best players out of their communities by offering them scholarships. There is recruiting even in the high school ranks! Who could turn down a tuition like $21,000/year?
|
|
|
Post by eyelander on Oct 20, 2019 16:03:32 GMT -5
My point exactly. Hawai’i is a balanced team as is Kamehameha. You take out one exceptional player and that messes with the chemistry and play. Until the last couple of matches, they’ve been having a difficult time dispatching lesser competition, like Irvine. I totally agree that without Oglivie, Iolani would have been highly overmatched, but they still took the more balanced team to 5 with a (wo)man team, suffering a reverse sweep. IMO, without Akana or Kahahawai, Iolani would’ve swept or win in 4. We’ll never know. Nope! And a couple posters are trying to explain this. Oglivie WAS the team. No one is comparable - it's not a 1:1 comparison -- Oglivie has a greater value, pulls more weight. From an offensive standpoint only: Take Elena Oglivie out vs. Kamehameha pins (Devin, Akana, Robins) --> Kamehameha wins (probably easily) Take Elena out vs. also take out one of the Kamehameha pins --> Kamehameha still wins. Put Elena in vs. Kamehameha without one of the three pins --> Iolani probably wins. Elena WAS Iolani. No real sense comparing University of Hawaii and Kamehameha. It's not the same. Oglive's absence has a greater impact on her team to any of the Kamehameha pins on their team. Sure, it takes a team effort, but we are just assuming everything else is equal, which is seemed it was. I still think Iolani could have pulled it out had the coach rested her in the fourth when the fifth set was impending. Also, Iolani's setter should have purely just gone to her in the front row to start off the fifth. Elena Oglive was huge for Iolani. Moving forward, it will probably be Kamehameha and Punahou in years to come. Kamehameha has such a pool of talent to choose from that come from all over the island. Punahou can pretty much scholarship anyone they want. So, also, before anyone also says ILH is so dominant ... just remember they have the ability to pull the best players out of their communities by offering them scholarships. There is recruiting even in the high school ranks! Who could turn down a tuition like $21,000/year? I don’t disagree that Elena is the team, just disagree that Kamehameha would automatically win if one of their players were out. I agree the ILH has always and will always be at the forefront when it comes to states, whether it be Kamehameha, Punahou, or Iolani. It would be nice if/when a non-ILh team wins it all.
|
|
|
Post by hvb808 on Oct 20, 2019 16:45:01 GMT -5
Nope! And a couple posters are trying to explain this. Oglivie WAS the team. No one is comparable - it's not a 1:1 comparison -- Oglivie has a greater value, pulls more weight. From an offensive standpoint only: Take Elena Oglivie out vs. Kamehameha pins (Devin, Akana, Robins) --> Kamehameha wins (probably easily) Take Elena out vs. also take out one of the Kamehameha pins --> Kamehameha still wins. Put Elena in vs. Kamehameha without one of the three pins --> Iolani probably wins. Elena WAS Iolani. No real sense comparing University of Hawaii and Kamehameha. It's not the same. Oglive's absence has a greater impact on her team to any of the Kamehameha pins on their team. Sure, it takes a team effort, but we are just assuming everything else is equal, which is seemed it was. I still think Iolani could have pulled it out had the coach rested her in the fourth when the fifth set was impending. Also, Iolani's setter should have purely just gone to her in the front row to start off the fifth. Elena Oglive was huge for Iolani. Moving forward, it will probably be Kamehameha and Punahou in years to come. Kamehameha has such a pool of talent to choose from that come from all over the island. Punahou can pretty much scholarship anyone they want. So, also, before anyone also says ILH is so dominant ... just remember they have the ability to pull the best players out of their communities by offering them scholarships. There is recruiting even in the high school ranks! Who could turn down a tuition like $21,000/year? I don’t disagree that Elena is the team, just disagree that Kamehameha would automatically win if one of their players were out. I agree the ILH has always and will always be at the forefront when it comes to states, whether it be Kamehameha, Punahou, or Iolani. It would be nice if/when a non-ILh team wins it all. Nobody said that Kamehameha would automatically win without one of their best players. The argument this whole time has been that ʻIolani without Oglivie is not able to compete with the top of the ILH. This was even proven mid way through the season when Oglivie was with the national team. ʻIolani was easily swept by both Punahou and Kamehameha back to back. Would Kamehameha stand a similar chance if they lost a player? I’m not so sure, but I’d still like their chances a whole lot better than ʻIolani without Oglivie.
|
|
|
Post by eyelander on Oct 20, 2019 16:53:48 GMT -5
I don’t disagree that Elena is the team, just disagree that Kamehameha would automatically win if one of their players were out. I agree the ILH has always and will always be at the forefront when it comes to states, whether it be Kamehameha, Punahou, or Iolani. It would be nice if/when a non-ILh team wins it all. Nobody said that Kamehameha would automatically win without one of their best players. The argument this whole time has been that ʻIolani without Oglivie is not able to compete with the top of the ILH. This was even proven mid way through the season when Oglivie was with the national team. ʻIolani was easily swept by both Punahou and Kamehameha back to back. Would Kamehameha stand a similar chance if they lost a player? I’m not so sure, but I’d still like their chances a whole lot better than ʻIolani without Oglivie. Agree with all your points. I was just speaking about the one match and not the whole season. They went 5 with all players available. Minus Elena, Iolani loses. Minus one of the Kamehameha girls, might have been a different story.
|
|
|
Post by hvb808 on Oct 20, 2019 16:59:42 GMT -5
Nobody said that Kamehameha would automatically win without one of their best players. The argument this whole time has been that ʻIolani without Oglivie is not able to compete with the top of the ILH. This was even proven mid way through the season when Oglivie was with the national team. ʻIolani was easily swept by both Punahou and Kamehameha back to back. Would Kamehameha stand a similar chance if they lost a player? I’m not so sure, but I’d still like their chances a whole lot better than ʻIolani without Oglivie. Agree with all your points. I was just speaking about the one match and not the whole season. They went 5 with all players available. Minus Elena, Iolani loses. Minus one of the Kamehameha girls, might have been a different story. Oh if you’re talking specifically about that match I see where you’re coming from. Definitely would have been difficult to make that comeback without a key player.
|
|
|
Post by HawaiiVB on Oct 21, 2019 3:35:09 GMT -5
Agree with all your points. I was just speaking about the one match and not the whole season. They went 5 with all players available. Minus Elena, Iolani loses. Minus one of the Kamehameha girls, might have been a different story. Oh if you’re talking specifically about that match I see where you’re coming from. Definitely would have been difficult to make that comeback without a key player. And speaking of ILH and OIA. If I was Coach Rob, I would offer some kind of scholie even if it's through the foundation to... Nika Danielson, Lei Akana, Kahahawai, Maui Robins and De Sa. These are the type of players that play with HEART. No attitude on the court, just balls to the wall. And yes I know most have committed, but I would seriously make a sincere pitch for them to de-commit.
|
|
rodd
Junior High
Posts: 2
|
Post by rodd on Oct 21, 2019 20:48:20 GMT -5
Agree with all your points. I was just speaking about the one match and not the whole season. They went 5 with all players available. Minus Elena, Iolani loses. Minus one of the Kamehameha girls, might have been a different story. Oh if you’re talking specifically about that match I see where you’re coming from. Definitely would have been difficult to make that comeback without a key player.
|
|
rodd
Junior High
Posts: 2
|
Post by rodd on Oct 21, 2019 20:52:25 GMT -5
Punahou and Kahuku are two similar physical teams matching up in the first round. First time in several years for Punahou being in state. Will look to see how they respond. It will come down to passing and blocking. Punahou is better blocking team.
|
|