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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 13:53:09 GMT -5
Curry is a good prospect for the future. She's further along than Lake was at the same stage, but she still has a year left at UK. As much as I respect your desire to engage people on this topic, we all know it'll be either Courtney or JWO on the floor in the libero jersey. I'd rather see JWO, Karch would rather see Courtney. Sadly his opinion is more important than mine. I'll be at the tryout in late Feb and I'll keep an eye on who is there but I don't expect to see Hentz. She's never shown any desire to play for the USWNT. Time will tell on White. I look forward to hearing about what you see at the tryout! I do however think that Karch really likes Mary Lake and that she too will be in the mix. Also during the VNL in week 4 in China when Courtney was sick/injured (which she is prone to) Lake started rough vs. Turkey but played very well vs. Poland and China. Her playing time at that level is limited but she has what it takes to make JWO and Courtney fight for that position. Yeah, think Lake will be in the mix for the roster but I don't envisage her playing. She passed a composite 1.90 for USA this year. For context, JWO passed a 2.3 and Courtney a 2.19. Lake would be a big step down at this point.
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Post by ToddyJ on Dec 17, 2019 13:57:39 GMT -5
I look forward to hearing about what you see at the tryout! I do however think that Karch really likes Mary Lake and that she too will be in the mix. Also during the VNL in week 4 in China when Courtney was sick/injured (which she is prone to) Lake started rough vs. Turkey but played very well vs. Poland and China. Her playing time at that level is limited but she has what it takes to make JWO and Courtney fight for that position. Yeah, think Lake will be in the mix for the roster but I don't envisage her playing. She passed a composite 1.90 for USA this year. For context, JWO passed a 2.3 and Courtney a 2.19. Lake would be a big step down at this point. You wouldn't happen to know their digging stats would you?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 14:08:23 GMT -5
Yeah, think Lake will be in the mix for the roster but I don't envisage her playing. She passed a composite 1.90 for USA this year. For context, JWO passed a 2.3 and Courtney a 2.19. Lake would be a big step down at this point. You wouldn't happen to know their digging stats would you? I would indeed. Courtney touched 283, dug 210 for an success rate of 74.2%. 175 of those 283 potential digs generated a full offensive attack so that's a CRT of 61.8%. JWO dug 127 of the 155 balls she touched for a dig success of 81.9%. She converted 109 of those 155 ball into a full attack for a CRT of 70.3. Mary Lake only touched 50 balls. She dug 33 of them meaning she had a success rate of 66%. 28 of those 60 potential digs led to an attack which gives her a CRT of 56%. As you can see, Lake is a long way behind the other two. Personally I prefer the defense and passing of JWO but I guess Karch likes the length and range of Courtney. Either that or she's got incriminating photos of him.
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Post by baytree on Dec 17, 2019 14:19:20 GMT -5
I had to include athletes who played last year but still aren't on the roster on the USWNT homepage. Those are Butler, Lilley and Curry. I didn't include Paige Tapp (MB) because she likely isn't playing anymore. Curry is a good prospect for the future. She's further along than Lake was at the same stage, but she still has a year left at UK. As much as I respect your desire to engage people on this topic, we all know it'll be either Courtney or JWO on the floor in the libero jersey. I'd rather see JWO, Karch would rather see Courtney. Sadly his opinion is more important than mine. I'll be at the tryout in late Feb and I'll keep an eye on who is there but I don't expect to see Hentz. She's never shown any desire to play for the USWNT. Time will tell on White. She's talked about playing professionally and for the national team this season. It sounded like she would like to play but I don't know what kind of options she'll have to play professionally. I hope she'll be able to play in Europe. USA needs more libero options.
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Post by eazy on Dec 17, 2019 14:21:52 GMT -5
You wouldn't happen to know their digging stats would you? I would indeed. Courtney touched 283, dug 210 for an success rate of 74.2%. 175 of those 283 potential digs generated a full offensive attack so that's a CRT of 61.8%. JWO dug 127 of the 155 balls she touched for a dig success of 81.9%. She converted 109 of those 155 ball into a full attack for a CRT of 70.3. Mary Lake only touched 50 balls. She dug 33 of them meaning she had a success rate of 66%. 28 of those 60 potential digs led to an attack which gives her a CRT of 56%. As you can see, Lake is a long way behind the other two. Personally I prefer the defense and passing of JWO but I guess Karch likes the length and range of Courtney. Either that or she's got incriminating photos of him. Are these stats coming from somewhere public or something special you have access to? Also, the combination of stats and humor are on point.
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Post by Hawk Attack on Dec 17, 2019 14:26:20 GMT -5
Curry is being developed but isn't ready for VNL yet. Uh, let’s be real. No one on that Pan American Games roster was being “developed”. Abandoned would be a more apt description.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 14:27:07 GMT -5
I would indeed. Courtney touched 283, dug 210 for an success rate of 74.2%. 175 of those 283 potential digs generated a full offensive attack so that's a CRT of 61.8%. JWO dug 127 of the 155 balls she touched for a dig success of 81.9%. She converted 109 of those 155 ball into a full attack for a CRT of 70.3. Mary Lake only touched 50 balls. She dug 33 of them meaning she had a success rate of 66%. 28 of those 60 potential digs led to an attack which gives her a CRT of 56%. As you can see, Lake is a long way behind the other two. Personally I prefer the defense and passing of JWO but I guess Karch likes the length and range of Courtney. Either that or she's got incriminating photos of him. Are these stats coming from somewhere public or something special you have access to? Also, the combination of stats and humor are on point. It's a professional scouting service to which I have access through the program I work for. And thanks, given the subjective nature of player evaluation you develop a certain dark humor regarding the obsession certain coaches seem to have with certain players.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Dec 17, 2019 14:29:59 GMT -5
You wouldn't happen to know their digging stats would you? I would indeed. Courtney touched 283, dug 210 for an success rate of 74.2%. 175 of those 283 potential digs generated a full offensive attack so that's a CRT of 61.8%. JWO dug 127 of the 155 balls she touched for a dig success of 81.9%. She converted 109 of those 155 ball into a full attack for a CRT of 70.3. Mary Lake only touched 50 balls. She dug 33 of them meaning she had a success rate of 66%. 28 of those 60 potential digs led to an attack which gives her a CRT of 56%. As you can see, Lake is a long way behind the other two. Personally I prefer the defense and passing of JWO but I guess Karch likes the length and range of Courtney. Either that or she's got incriminating photos of him. These stats are bunk due to the incredible disparity in opponent strength. Let's look at Courtney v. JWO. They both played China, Japan, DR, Korea, Argentina, and Mexico. JWO's additional matches were against (in descending strength), DR (x3), Puerto Rico, Canada (x2), Cameroon (x2), Colombia (x2) and Trinidad. Who did Courtney also play? Italy, Serbia (x2), China again, Brazil (x4!), Netherlands, Russia, Poland, Japan, Belgium, Germany, Bulgaria x2, Kenya and Kazakhstan. I'm not saying Courtney is the answer (KRob, please...), but it's a problem when we make roster decisions based on aggregate stats (and why we had Kelly Murphy for so long) when Team USA only plays a very small part of its schedule against teams that can actually threaten it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 14:31:21 GMT -5
I would indeed. Courtney touched 283, dug 210 for an success rate of 74.2%. 175 of those 283 potential digs generated a full offensive attack so that's a CRT of 61.8%. JWO dug 127 of the 155 balls she touched for a dig success of 81.9%. She converted 109 of those 155 ball into a full attack for a CRT of 70.3. Mary Lake only touched 50 balls. She dug 33 of them meaning she had a success rate of 66%. 28 of those 60 potential digs led to an attack which gives her a CRT of 56%. As you can see, Lake is a long way behind the other two. Personally I prefer the defense and passing of JWO but I guess Karch likes the length and range of Courtney. Either that or she's got incriminating photos of him. These stats are bunk due to the incredible disparity in opponent strength. Let's look at Courtney v. JWO. They both played China, Japan, DR, Korea, Argentina, and Mexico. JWO's additional matches were against (in descending strength), DR (x3), Puerto Rico, Canada (x2), Cameroon (x2), Colombia (x2) and Trinidad. Who did Courtney also play? Italy, Serbia (x2), China again, Brazil (x4!), Netherlands, Russia, Poland, Japan, Belgium, Germany, Bulgaria x2, Kenya and Kazakhstan. I'm not saying Courtney is the answer (KRob, please...), but it's a problem when we make roster decisions based on aggregate stats (and why we had Kelly Murphy for so long) when Team USA only plays a very small part of its schedule against teams that can actually threaten it. I can do like for like comparisons in matches in which they both feature if you ask nicely...
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Post by c4ndlelight on Dec 17, 2019 14:34:36 GMT -5
These stats are bunk due to the incredible disparity in opponent strength. Let's look at Courtney v. JWO. They both played China, Japan, DR, Korea, Argentina, and Mexico. JWO's additional matches were against (in descending strength), DR (x3), Puerto Rico, Canada (x2), Cameroon (x2), Colombia (x2) and Trinidad. Who did Courtney also play? Italy, Serbia (x2), China again, Brazil (x4!), Netherlands, Russia, Poland, Japan, Belgium, Germany, Bulgaria x2, Kenya and Kazakhstan. I'm not saying Courtney is the answer (KRob, please...), but it's a problem when we make roster decisions based on aggregate stats (and why we had Kelly Murphy for so long) when Team USA only plays a very small part of its schedule against teams that can actually threaten it. I can do like for like comparisons in matches in which they both feature if you ask nicely... All 2 of them? And even then, trying to find answers in the stats will be a useless endeavor. To win gold in Tokyo, we need to match up well against the 4-6 teams who can beat us (depending on what kind of shape Russia and Holland are in) and we played exactly 1 match against those teams when they were at full strength and motivated to win last year (China at WCup, just because everyone else was focused on Euros, Oly Quals, or rest & recovery). The correlation between what these players do against lesser competition and B teams just doesn't carry linearly over to winning those big matches (the Murphy effect). You can't find the answers to everything in Volleymetrics.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 14:52:38 GMT -5
I can do like for like comparisons in matches in which they both feature if you ask nicely... All 2 of them? And even then, trying to find answers in the stats will be a useless endeavor. To win gold in Tokyo, we need to match up well against the 4-6 teams who can beat us (depending on what kind of shape Russia and Holland are in) and we played exactly 1 match against those teams when they were at full strength and motivated to win last year (China at WCup, just because everyone else was focused on Euros, Oly Quals, or rest & recovery). The correlation between what these players do against lesser competition and B teams just doesn't carry linearly over to winning those big matches (the Murphy effect). You can't find the answers to everything in Volleymetrics. So rather than comparing their relative performances against common opponents to bring some context to the discussion (and express statistically why people like Mary Lake won't see any time on the floor) you'd advocate relying on sarcasm and forum awards? For the record, I was asked to supply their digging stats - which I did. Not sure where your ego is coming from but it's certainly adorable.
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Post by ToddyJ on Dec 17, 2019 15:09:44 GMT -5
These stats are bunk due to the incredible disparity in opponent strength. Let's look at Courtney v. JWO. They both played China, Japan, DR, Korea, Argentina, and Mexico. JWO's additional matches were against (in descending strength), DR (x3), Puerto Rico, Canada (x2), Cameroon (x2), Colombia (x2) and Trinidad. Who did Courtney also play? Italy, Serbia (x2), China again, Brazil (x4!), Netherlands, Russia, Poland, Japan, Belgium, Germany, Bulgaria x2, Kenya and Kazakhstan. I'm not saying Courtney is the answer (KRob, please...), but it's a problem when we make roster decisions based on aggregate stats (and why we had Kelly Murphy for so long) when Team USA only plays a very small part of its schedule against teams that can actually threaten it. I can do like for like comparisons in matches in which they both feature if you ask nicely... Yes Please! Also I didn't realize Lake saw so little action. I didn't realize it was that limited.
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Post by volleyguy on Dec 17, 2019 15:11:09 GMT -5
I can do like for like comparisons in matches in which they both feature if you ask nicely... Yes Please! Also I didn't realize Lake saw so little action. I didn't realize it was that limited. She lost her passport, remember.
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Post by ToddyJ on Dec 17, 2019 15:22:23 GMT -5
Yes Please! Also I didn't realize Lake saw so little action. I didn't realize it was that limited. She lost her passport, remember. Yeah. She literally only started against the Dominican Republic (3-2 Loss), Turkey(3-0 Loss), Poland (3-1 Win) and China (3-0 Win) in the VNL prelims and the third set vs. Kazakhstan (3-0 Win) in the IOQT. Very limited duty. Had she not lost her passport she would have played all of week 5 vs. Russia, Netherlands and Thailand.
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Post by ToddyJ on Dec 18, 2019 0:56:30 GMT -5
Curry is being developed but isn't ready for VNL yet. Uh, let’s be real. No one on that Pan American Games roster was being “developed”. Abandoned would be a more apt description. Tell that to Ogbogu, Washington, Carlini and Poutler. It all worked out fine for them.
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