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Post by holidayhusker on Dec 28, 2019 7:48:48 GMT -5
Can we please take this thread down. I could go into the numerous reasons of why this post is inappropriate, wrong and immature but don’t have the time or space to do it and then I would just be adding fuel to the fire. The fact you waited to post this 28 days after the match proves that you have some personal vendetta against their Coach (also the fact that 75% of your post are about him) and your response to people is calling them “stupid”. Volley talk is better than this, I know enough about the topic to say everyone can have their opinion but this clearly is someone who has a personal grudge. I also am not gonna trust the exact quote and context when it is given 28 days later. Let’s do better I've not participated in this thread because I didn't think I had anything useful to add, but there are many precedents for discussing off-court incidents involving volleyball players and/coaches and/or staff. This guy was AVCA D1 COY and the discussion is about something that happened at the wedding of one of his players. In that respect this is a legit thread. Which once again is hearsay
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Post by holidayhusker on Dec 28, 2019 7:50:09 GMT -5
. That’s with this thread is really about, and attack on religion and a attack on Republican conservatives Snowflake. Stay away if the fire is feeling warm. Most see this as an issue that can be discussed without hyperbole. Most. Well of course you think that
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Post by letsbeclear on Dec 28, 2019 8:18:21 GMT -5
Can we please take this thread down. I could go into the numerous reasons of why this post is inappropriate, wrong and immature but don’t have the time or space to do it and then I would just be adding fuel to the fire. The fact you waited to post this 28 days after the match proves that you have some personal vendetta against their Coach (also the fact that 75% of your post are about him) and your response to people is calling them “stupid”. Volley talk is better than this, I know enough about the topic to say everyone can have their opinion but this clearly is someone who has a personal grudge. I also am not gonna trust the exact quote and context when it is given 28 days later. Let’s do better I've not participated in this thread because I didn't think I had anything useful to add, but there are many precedents for discussing off-court incidents involving volleyball players and/coaches and/or staff. This guy was AVCA D1 COY and the discussion is about something that happened at the wedding of one of his players. In that respect this is a legit thread. Were this something that happened at someone's wedding, I wouldn't find it particularly relevant for this forum. For me, what makes it relevant is that the OP claims it happened as part of a public volleyball match. Baylor's players and coach are very open about using volleyball as a platform for their religious beliefs. When that's in part their rationale for participating in the sport, it most definitely is legitimate to discuss whether it is appropriate to use a sporting event for that purpose, especially when that sporting event is sanctioned by a secular organization, the NCAA. I'd even hope that Baylor University and its defenders would welcome such discussion. After all, that's precisely why Baylor is putting those religious beliefs out there. For me, the only issue is that such discussion should be informed discussion and based on accurate information. I've learned things by reading this thread. For me, that's good, useful, and relevant to thinking about the relationship between religion and sport -- and, by extension, the relationship between politics and sport.
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Post by legolas9 on Dec 28, 2019 8:42:51 GMT -5
I've not participated in this thread because I didn't think I had anything useful to add, but there are many precedents for discussing off-court incidents involving volleyball players and/coaches and/or staff. This guy was AVCA D1 COY and the discussion is about something that happened at the wedding of one of his players. In that respect this is a legit thread. Were this something that happened at someone's wedding, I wouldn't find it particularly relevant for this forum. For me, what makes it relevant is that the OP claims it happened as part of a public volleyball match. Baylor's players and coach are very open about using volleyball as a platform for their religious beliefs. When that's in part their rationale for participating in the sport, it most definitely is legitimate to discuss whether it is appropriate to use a sporting event for that purpose, especially when that sporting event is sanctioned by a secular organization, the NCAA. I'd even hope that Baylor University and its defenders would welcome such discussion. After all, that's precisely why Baylor is putting those religious beliefs out there. For me, the only issue is that such discussion should be informed discussion and based on accurate information. I've learned things by reading this thread. For me, that's good, useful, and relevant to thinking about the relationship between religion and sport -- and, by extension, the relationship between politics and sport. This thread was posted based on senior night, not a wedding. All this thread intended to do was tear down Ryan McGuyre and Baylor. If it was an honest concern over what was said then you could then have a tolerant conversation about the topic. This post was intended to hurt a persons character and reputation and that is why there is no need to continue thread because no one really knows the context, what he truly meant and what exactly was even said. My points: 1.) it was posted 28 days after the fact in which the person posting says McGuyre said “Stafford should serve her husband”. Is there evidence that these are the exact words. There is also 0 context surrounding the statement. 2.) the person posting has a history of posting negative comments and threads around the Baylor coaches. 3.) if McGuyre did in fact say these exact words, there is a ton of assumption what he meant by “serve”. Did he define what he meant in this speech? Then why assume he meant some old fashioned view of a wife being a servant and nothing else. Why not assume he meant serve as love and care of each other? 4.) is there evidence in his career to suggest he views women or wives as what this post and others are assuming? That he views the role of women as some helpless servant. But no of course let’s just assume since he works at Baylor and supposedly they believe that so he must to. If if there is going to be discussion around this and especially when it is regards to a humans character, can we at least have an educated discussion around facts and evidence. Not off of one person who heard it in a video a month ago who has a history of not liking the coach. This person jumped to their own conclusions or worse purposefully steered the discussion to hurt Ryan McGuyre.
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Post by bbk on Dec 28, 2019 9:04:32 GMT -5
Amen.
This seems to be a smear or troll campaign.
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Post by bigfan on Dec 28, 2019 10:11:49 GMT -5
I have a couple friends from HS who openly stated their objective was to get their MRS degree... some were successful, some dropped out of the program for various self-actualization reasons. McGuyre's alma mater is Biola. Biola is an acronym for Bible Institute of Los Angeles. Some of the women attending the school jokingly refer to it as the Bridal Institute of Los Angeles. Biola has Bible quotes painted on the walls of their gym. The announcer leads pre game prayers. The announcer leads post game prayers. I have never heard a student section swear like they do at contests
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Post by henryjames on Dec 28, 2019 10:16:29 GMT -5
I posted the thread 28 days after the Baylor vs. TCU game--Senior Night--because as a Baylor graduate and Evangelical, I needed time to think about the implications of McGuyre's words. I also have two daughters who play volleyball and adore the Baylor players (posters everywhere). My wife went to Baylor. We've supported McGuyre and his team all season. However, we Evangelicals don't have to embrace the doctrine that hurts 50% of the population--doctrine that argues for women to be subservient to men--and the doctrine that McGuyre sounded when he suggested that Stafford "serve her husband." And, he did mean it in the old Evangelical sense. It's 2020, and we can rethink our beliefs, much like other faiths reconsidered their LGBTQ opinions. FYI: We're already rethinking voting for Trump because he's destroying the environment that God created (in case you haven't heard, Evangelicals are the new environmentalists). But I don't have a platform, like McGuyre, to spread a different kind of positive, empowering message for women. If he really cares about women's autonomy and agency, then he should never hope that a woman's life goal is to "serve her husband" (at least he said "serve Jesus" first). He's the Coach of the Year for a women's sport. Please McGuyre--send a different message. Maybe this forum wasn't the place to discuss McGuyre's words, but you don't have to participate in the discussion if you don't like it. Just don't click on the thread. It's that easy. And, I'm not a troll.
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Post by n00b on Dec 28, 2019 11:01:00 GMT -5
If he really cares about women's autonomy and agency, then he should never hope that a woman's life goal is to "serve her husband" See, now you’re exaggerating even more. You’re now claiming that he said that a “woman’s life goal” (and you made it singular, implying that there is no other goal) is to serve her husband? Is that what he said? Because in the original post, it seemed like he just used the phrase ‘serve your husband’ just like you can ‘serve the poor’ or ‘serve the Lord’. If he said “your single goal in life should be to serve your husband”, I’d be with you. I find it extremely unlikely that’s what he said. And it’s really confusing that a Baylor alum could misconstrue the word ‘serve’ as badly as you have.
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Post by holidayhusker on Dec 28, 2019 11:05:10 GMT -5
I posted the thread 28 days after the Baylor vs. TCU game--Senior Night--because as a Baylor graduate and Evangelical, I needed time to think about the implications of McGuyre's words. I also have two daughters who play volleyball and adore the Baylor players (posters everywhere). My wife went to Baylor. We've supported McGuyre and his team all season. However, we Evangelicals don't have to embrace the doctrine that hurts 50% of the population--doctrine that argues for women to be subservient to men--and the doctrine that McGuyre sounded when he suggested that Stafford "serve her husband." And, he did mean it in the old Evangelical sense. It's 2020, and we can rethink our beliefs, much like other faiths reconsidered their LGBTQ opinions. FYI: We're already rethinking voting for Trump because he's destroying the environment that God created (in case you haven't heard, Evangelicals are the new environmentalists). But I don't have a platform, like McGuyre, to spread a different kind of positive, empowering message for women. If he really cares about women's autonomy and agency, then he should never hope that a woman's life goal is to "serve her husband" (at least he said "serve Jesus" first). He's the Coach of the Year for a women's sport. Please McGuyre--send a different message. Maybe this forum wasn't the place to discuss McGuyre's words, but you don't have to participate in the discussion if you don't like it. Just don't click on the thread. It's that easy. And, I'm not a troll. This entire post doesn’t pass the smell test
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Post by hoosierdraft on Dec 28, 2019 11:31:33 GMT -5
I am so sick of the rules on this board only being enforced when it comes to conservatives, why is this moron allowed to say things like this without retribution? Evangelicals didn't vote, en masse, for Trump? Come now, they're a substantial chunk of his "base". In the context of this thread, it is perfectly relevant. You're the one calling another board member a "moron" simply for expressing an honest opinion that you disagree with. Other than, I believe, accurately characterizing their "belief", I said nothing disparaging about evangelicals (unless you believe that voting for Trump is disparaging). Apparently, from your perspective, conservative evangelicals should be able to say whatever they want, in the name of religion, without criticism or blowback. Liberals should just STFU. Pearls before swine holiday. Pearls before swine.
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Post by DragNet on Dec 28, 2019 11:42:41 GMT -5
MacGuyre was speaking to the females on the team. That was the audience. I choose to believe if the audience was comprised of men. one of which was getting married, that he would have given the same advice, "serve your wife."
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Post by notwvb on Dec 28, 2019 11:45:17 GMT -5
Amen. This seems to be a smear or troll campaign. It does, or at best the OP is terribly ill-informed or misguided. There are religions where women are considered chattel, are not co-equal in marriage, and must be subservient to their husband. Christianity is not one of them. Quite to the contrary. The v. 25 noted above requires husbands to love their own wife as a co-equal in worth and dignity, serving and putting her first in all things, even giving up his life for her if required. Guys, try that on for size for a day, a month or 50 years of marriage. In return for that kind of cherishing love, if there is a decision or two in a life of a marriage which requires a tie-breaking vote, submitting to the authority of the husband's decision in such a rare occurrence isn't a bad trade off. Thinking this is what the coach meant with his words, as SA's with great talent are flocking to play for him at Baylor.
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Post by Sooners1822 on Dec 28, 2019 11:54:24 GMT -5
Kind of amazed at how no one seems to understand what is meant here by Ryan, who is a Christian.
To serve your husband is something Paul (author of the letter of Ephesians) implores the women of the church to do. But it is not servitude as in like a lesser part of the marriage. The man is called to serve as well, Paul says the man is to love her as Christ loves the church, which if you aren't aware was to lay down His life. So if anything the calling on the husband is a greater call to service.
But again service is not bondage in the way so many are stating.
I would hope any married men/women on here would say and know that when you serve your spouse out of love that is a good and beneficial thing for your marriage.
Serving out of duty alone is not, but that is not what Ryan is talking about as many are trying to claim.
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Post by joetrinsey on Dec 28, 2019 11:58:54 GMT -5
As unproductive as some of the comments have been in this thread, I appreciate the productive ones. Clearly this is an issue that raises some strong feelings on both sides.
I'm a non-religious person who's coached at a couple of very religious schools, so understanding that perspective is important.
As always though, I'm reminded of the quote, "We see the world, not as it is, but as we are." I had no problem with what he said, and in fact in my own vows promised my wife I would, "serve her." So my initial reaction was, "what's the problem here?" Some of the comments have made me reflect a little bit though. I can understand that words of religion have long been twisted (or perhaps, deliberately created, depending upon your view of history) to subjugate others. I can see how some wouldn't like to hear him say that.
Tough topic. For what it's worth, I'd have no problem with my own daughter (who has not been baptized and has never been to church) playing for Ryan. I believe he's a good coach and a quality person, who just happens to hold some different beliefs than I do.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Dec 28, 2019 12:11:13 GMT -5
As unproductive as some of the comments have been in this thread, I appreciate the productive ones. Clearly this is an issue that raises some strong feelings on both sides. I'm a non-religious person who's coached at a couple of very religious schools, so understanding that perspective is important. As always though, I'm reminded of the quote, "We see the world, not as it is, but as we are." I had no problem with what he said, and in fact in my own vows promised my wife I would, "serve her." So my initial reaction was, "what's the problem here?" Some of the comments have made me reflect a little bit though. I can understand that words of religion have long been twisted (or perhaps, deliberately created, depending upon your view of history) to subjugate others. I can see how some wouldn't like to hear him say that. Tough topic. For what it's worth, I'd have no problem with my own daughter (who has not been baptized and has never been to church) playing for Ryan. I believe he's a good coach and a quality person, who just happens to hold some different beliefs than I do. I have no doubts he’s a terrific person. He has religious beliefs that I also don’t share, and that’s ok. I talked to a player who played for sacred heart and played them in the NCAA. I asked her about it and she said a member of their team approached them before warm ups and shared with the their tradition of post game prayer. She chatted the girl up and the baylor player told her that not all the Baylor players were Christian but they support the tradition. The Sacred heart players participated and to her knowledge all were comfortable with it. I think sentiment on here ranges between “keep your religion to yourself” and “ I hate Christians” in defense of Baylor a BIG part of Christianity is witnessing and sharing your faith, of course how people go about that makes a big difference. I think there are a lot of people who want Christians to stay in the closet so to speak, that of course is not what Christians are called to do. I think if you don’t like it, don’t go to Baylor or support them.
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