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Post by occasionallystupid on Sept 22, 2023 13:17:40 GMT -5
I guess I missed the part where the Taylors were savaged for not playing FIVBs. My stance was always that they had no chance of being successful there so I thought it was smart of them to stop wasting money down that rabbit hole but also that they went down that rabbit hole far too long. Several of us here were critical of them for not playing FIVB last year, so they could build up their entry points and get Sander acclimated with the FIVB ball, style of play, etc. Then they went on Sandcast earlier this year and defended themselves by saying it was a long cycle but that they still were aiming to qualify for the Paris Olympics. But by that point it was too late, as they didn't have enough points to get into Elite 16 events. Then they lost a couple of Challenger qualifiers and it was all over. I still believe if they had been playing FIVB all along they'd be right in the mix for USA2 right now. The Taylors have shown they can compete with Theo/Trevor, Tri/Chaim, and Chase/Miles on the AVP, and I'd bet they'd be even better if they'd been playing a full schedule against the top FIVB teams the past two years. Similarly, I don't think Sponcil is going to get any better by playing AVP only for a couple of years with an inferior partner. To be the best you need to compete with the best. Sitting out and/or playing down a level is probably going to hurt her beach career in the long run. I agree with the sentiment, but I will say I don’t think the drop off is quite as steep for Sponcil, the women’s avp is worlds more competitive than the men’s side, and sponcil is fundamentally better individually than either of the Taylors. She’s a top 10 player in her 20s regardless of how you evaluate it, I don’t think either of them are top 30 internationally (certainly not sander as a blocker) and both are in their 30s. She at least is a realistic contender for 2028. I don’t think either of the Taylors has a shot for that. So she might find difficulties but I don’t think it’s the quite the same.
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Post by dunninla3 on Sept 22, 2023 14:45:09 GMT -5
I guess I missed the part where the Taylors were savaged for not playing FIVBs. My stance was always that they had no chance of being successful there so I thought it was smart of them to stop wasting money down that rabbit hole but also that they went down that rabbit hole far too long. I don't think Sponcil is going to get any better by playing AVP only for a couple of years with an inferior partner. First, I hope it is only a year, or even half a year. Second, she wasn't going to get any better at the only part of her game that needed real improvement -- attack -- playing with an inferior partner either, b/c one needs more consistent reps, and yet still her attack game became world class the past year as well. She certainly doesn't need more setting practice. Shows you her pin hitter attack was there all the time, but was stuck in between her ears somewhere. Davenport seems to have freed it up.
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Post by ajm on Sept 22, 2023 17:31:00 GMT -5
I don't think Sponcil is going to get any better by playing AVP only for a couple of years with an inferior partner. First, I hope it is only a year, or even half a year. Second, she wasn't going to get any better at the only part of her game that needed real improvement -- attack -- playing with an inferior partner either, b/c one needs more consistent reps, and yet still her attack game became world class the past year as well. She certainly doesn't need more setting practice. Shows you her pin hitter attack was there all the time, but was stuck in between her ears somewhere. Davenport seems to have freed it up. I hope her attitude isn't "I'm too good for any of the available blockers so I'm just going to sit out until a better one calls me" as you seem to be suggesting. It's certainly possible for her to take an extended time off from the beach at her age and return to her previous level. Tri Bourne has obviously proven that. On the other hand, I would think if she has serious aspirations to reach another level of play maybe it's better to take the Sara Hughes path and play whenever and with whomever she can, so as to show to potential future partners that she can improve on her weaknesses.
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Post by newbeach on Sept 22, 2023 19:13:29 GMT -5
First, I hope it is only a year, or even half a year. Second, she wasn't going to get any better at the only part of her game that needed real improvement -- attack -- playing with an inferior partner either, b/c one needs more consistent reps, and yet still her attack game became world class the past year as well. She certainly doesn't need more setting practice. Shows you her pin hitter attack was there all the time, but was stuck in between her ears somewhere. Davenport seems to have freed it up. I hope her attitude isn't "I'm too good for any of the available blockers so I'm just going to sit out until a better one calls me" as you seem to be suggesting. It's certainly possible for her to take an extended time off from the beach at her age and return to her previous level. Tri Bourne has obviously proven that. On the other hand, I would think if she has serious aspirations to reach another level of play maybe it's better to take the Sara Hughes path and play whenever and with whomever she can, so as to show to potential future partners that she can improve on her weaknesses. I don't think Sarah will get better playing AVP, but she is playing at a high-level and she will be fine (physically and skill-wise) to take some time off. I would be more concerned with her motivation possibly changing. She is embarking on a new journey right now. Who would have predicted a year or two ago that she would be taking some (non-injury related) time off. Sarah probably wouldn't have predicted that herself. I think, when (if) she returns to beach volleyball that she would want a high-level partner, otherwise, why bother? Nothing wrong with that. Who knows, maybe she will find a great partner (like Plummer) and be more motivated than she is now.
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Post by dunninla3 on Sept 23, 2023 0:32:29 GMT -5
First, I hope it is only a year, or even half a year. Second, she wasn't going to get any better at the only part of her game that needed real improvement -- attack -- playing with an inferior partner either, b/c one needs more consistent reps, and yet still her attack game became world class the past year as well. She certainly doesn't need more setting practice. Shows you her pin hitter attack was there all the time, but was stuck in between her ears somewhere. Davenport seems to have freed it up. I hope her attitude isn't "I'm too good for any of the available blockers I have never seen any evidence of that type of attitude in the few years I've been watching her indoor or Beach. But I'm not in her head so who knows. I have previously speculated that she is hyper competitive and finishing poorly regularly just drains her emotionally. To not see any reasonable path to improving that situation is probably what tipped it. You could have said two years ago that her sideout game was weak. She improved that quite a lot, and now I don't think there is anything more she can change in herself (skill wise) that would make the difference. She even pulled out a couple of topspin ripper serves... so she WAS doing everything she could think of to get her team over the line. I do not think Duda or Schoon could finish better with Cannon than Sponcil is, in fact probably worse.
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Post by genisvel on Nov 24, 2023 12:21:35 GMT -5
Some updates: She's listed on the roster as "Libero/Setter" The other Libero on the roster is the Colombian National Team's Camila Gomez. There are two other Setters at the moment: USAVB's Ashley Evans and, just announced Wednesday and not added to the website yet, Swedish League MVP Taylor Bruns. PVF teams can sign 30 players for the pre-season and have to be down to 14 for the regular season. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0COMHrMcFz
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Post by robvolei on Nov 25, 2023 11:31:53 GMT -5
Some updates: She's listed on the roster as "Libero/Setter" The other Libero on the roster is the Colombian National Team's Camila Gomez. There are two other Setters at the moment: USAVB's Ashley Evans and, just announced Wednesday and not added to the website yet, Swedish League MVP Taylor Bruns. PVF teams can sign 30 players for the pre-season and have to be down to 14 for the regular season. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0COMHrMcFz Damn, that's not the best news. I wonder if she'll play OH.
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Post by ajm on Nov 25, 2023 11:50:44 GMT -5
Some updates: She's listed on the roster as "Libero/Setter" The other Libero on the roster is the Colombian National Team's Camila Gomez. There are two other Setters at the moment: USAVB's Ashley Evans and, just announced Wednesday and not added to the website yet, Swedish League MVP Taylor Bruns. PVF teams can sign 30 players for the pre-season and have to be down to 14 for the regular season. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0COMHrMcFz Damn, that's not the best news. I wonder if she'll play OH. Sounds like she might not even make the team. Is her salary guaranteed? Or maybe they’ll keep her on the roster for the name recognition but she wouldn’t play much.
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Post by dunninla3 on Nov 25, 2023 12:16:29 GMT -5
Damn, that's not the best news. I wonder if she'll play OH. Sounds like she might not even make the team. Is her salary guaranteed? Or maybe they’ll keep her on the roster for the name recognition but she wouldn’t play much. it would make no sense for a HC to promote a player they don't plan to use
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Post by ajm on Nov 25, 2023 12:39:32 GMT -5
Sounds like she might not even make the team. Is her salary guaranteed? Or maybe they’ll keep her on the roster for the name recognition but she wouldn’t play much. it would make no sense for a HC to promote a player they don't plan to use
It would make no sense for a HC to use a player that doesn’t increase the team’s chances of winning.
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Post by genisvel on Nov 25, 2023 12:42:40 GMT -5
Sounds like she might not even make the team. Is her salary guaranteed? Or maybe they’ll keep her on the roster for the name recognition but she wouldn’t play much. it would make no sense for a HC to promote a player they don't plan to use
Well, as pay is uniform across the league at the moment, if I were Coach and there's $1M for a championship for the players and another $1M for the front office... including the coaching staff, I'm getting as many of the best talent I can land and making them prove who's best. Salary isn't guaranteed. The $60k breaks down to $2500 per game, but unlike European leagues, medical is covered. There will be a waiver wire, so if a contract is waived every team will be notified and they can choose from cut players if they need to replace someone they are putting on their injured reserve list (injured players won't get cut... unlike European leagues), or if a player gets called to their National Team. But, as things stand now, I think Sponcil is 2nd Libero
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Post by ramo2653 on Nov 25, 2023 16:54:20 GMT -5
Are they using international sub rules? If they aren't I'd say she's going to be a DS, but if they are, then yeah, she's the 2nd bro.
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Post by genisvel on Nov 25, 2023 18:49:14 GMT -5
Are they using international sub rules? If they aren't I'd say she's going to be a DS, but if they are, then yeah, she's the 2nd bro. Last I heard, 8 subs per set. Two more than the international but nowhere near NCAA rules. I'm not sure if Liberos will serve.
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Post by dunninla3 on Dec 10, 2023 11:35:48 GMT -5
I just happened to notice that each subsection of this Forum, including Women's, Men's, and Beach, have metrics at the bottom. One of the metrics is total number of posts going back as far as the forum keeps records. Total Number of Posts (in 1,000): Beach (men and women): 148 Men's: 291 Women's: 2,676 Those numbers surprise be in their magnitude. I had thought, purely from my own perspective, that maybe Indoor Women would have, say 5x the active interest that Beach has. But not. It's 20x. Beach has only 4% of the active interest of Indoor (Men and Women combined). Only 5% of the active interest of Indoor Women's volleball. I don't get this, given that Beach became a collegiate sport about 10 years ago. But stats are stats. Posts on this Forum I think are a very good metric, in that a certain engaged interest is required to find the Forum and write a post. Now we have several pro leagues attempting to be the USA Indoor equivalent of the AVP. This would have been unimaginable 20 years ago. There is a reason that both Kerri and Misty committed to Beach in their young primes when they could have been Team USA Indoor, and playing Club internationally. there is a reason Karch, Hov, Dodd, Stokie, Smith and Steffes committed to Beach in their primes, instead of USA Gym and Int'l Club. MONEY. MONEY in beach is now merely money. Not just AVP, but FIVB as well. An 80% pay cut. It's not an American thing. The $195k that TKN earned to top the FIVB + AVP earnings table is, depending on how you measure inflation, less than 20% in today's dollars what Karch and Kent were earning in the early and mid 90s... which averaged over $300,000 per year for several years. When rent in my socal apt. near UCLA in the early 90s was $450, and the same apartment (it's still there) now is renting for $3,000. Does the sport of Beach volleyball have enough engaged interest to survive financially long term?
All that to say... maybe Sponcil is on to something here.
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Post by guest2 on Dec 10, 2023 13:07:03 GMT -5
I just happened to notice that each subsection of this Forum, including Women's, Men's, and Beach, have metrics at the bottom. One of the metrics is total number of posts going back as far as the forum keeps records. Total Number of Posts (in 1,000): Beach (men and women): 148 Men's: 291 Women's: 2,676 Those numbers surprise be in their magnitude. I had thought, purely from my own perspective, that maybe Indoor Women would have, say 5x the active interest that Beach has. But not. It's 20x. Beach has only 4% of the active interest of Indoor (Men and Women combined). Only 5% of the active interest of Indoor Women's volleball. I don't get this, given that Beach became a collegiate sport about 10 years ago. But stats are stats. Posts on this Forum I think are a very good metric, in that a certain engaged interest is required to find the Forum and write a post. Now we have several pro leagues attempting to be the USA Indoor equivalent of the AVP. This would have been unimaginable 20 years ago. There is a reason that both Kerri and Misty committed to Beach in their young primes when they could have been Team USA Indoor, and playing Club internationally. there is a reason Karch, Hov, Dodd, Stokie, Smith and Steffes committed to Beach in their primes, instead of USA Gym and Int'l Club. MONEY. MONEY in beach is now merely money. Not just AVP, but FIVB as well. An 80% pay cut. It's not an American thing. The $195k that TKN earned to top the FIVB + AVP earnings table is, depending on how you measure inflation, less than 20% in today's dollars what Karch and Kent were earning in the early and mid 90s... which averaged over $300,000 per year for several years. When rent in my socal apt. near UCLA in the early 90s was $450, and the same apartment (it's still there) now is renting for $3,000. Does the sport of Beach volleyball have enough engaged interest to survive financially long term? All that to say... maybe Sponcil is on to something here.
The reason Smith/Stoklos and Hov/Dodd committed to beach was Doug Beal. There was almost no money in the game when they left the national team (made maybe 10k that year). Also Hov/Dodd and Stoklos all played club indoors for a while. Also Karch spent most of his athletic prime playing indoors - came to beach full time after 8 years indoors.
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