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Post by gobears on Nov 21, 2005 18:43:54 GMT -5
I also have wondered from time to time, do all the coaches who are supposed to vote, actually vote every week? I believe there is a deadline. What if one or more coaches just don't get it done some weeks?
So one week, you have a coach or two with one impression or anotehr as to who is playing well and who deserves such and such a rank, but they don't get their votes in....and the next week, they do all get their votes in.
Cause skewing and odd results, especially with a few ponts here and there.
Any way to tell if everyone gets their votes in?
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Post by Gorf on Nov 21, 2005 18:49:36 GMT -5
I think you could easily tell the answer to whether all coaches turn in their votes each week but totally the number of #1 votes in each poll.
I can't reember a time when that total wasn't the 60 as would be indicated by the number of coaches on the voting panel, however, I guess someone could go though all of the old polls on the AVCA site to check.
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Post by Gorf on Nov 21, 2005 18:52:19 GMT -5
Their victory of Santa Clara certainly didn't hurt California. They were probably given credit for playing close to Stanford as well, however, in that case why does Stanford gain 39 points for nearly losing to the lower ranked California? There were 60 different voters. Who knows which voters gave more points, and how many more, to Cal, Minnesota, Stanford, or anyone else? Overall, I don't think the results you complain about are out of line. Maybe the week before, some voters thought that Stanford was no longer to be taken seriously after Kehoe went down and were stingy in rating them, but were so impressed with their win against Cal that they "restored" the points they "withheld" the prior week. I doubt that Stanford got points for "nearly losing" to Cal; but I am confident they got points for demonstrating that even without two of their stars, they could prevail in a five gamer against a top 15 team. I don't disagree with your reasoning, however, I do agree with (R)uffda! that such reasoning doesn't appear to be equally applied to teams from all conferences in the same manner that it is applied to teams in the Pac-10.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2005 18:52:20 GMT -5
I also have wondered from time to time, do all the coaches who are supposed to vote, actually vote every week? I believe there is a deadline. What if one or more coaches just don't get it done some weeks? So one week, you have a coach or two with one impression or anotehr as to who is playing well and who deserves such and such a rank, but they don't get their votes in....and the next week, they do all get their votes in. Cause skewing and odd results, especially with a few ponts here and there. Any way to tell if everyone gets their votes in? Well, we know there are 60 people eligible to vote and that all 60 people voted for a first place team, so we know everyone voted. Someone could add all the points and determine whether every voter voted for each of the top 25 teams, but I ain't gonna do it.
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Post by 2c on Nov 21, 2005 18:55:07 GMT -5
I also have wondered from time to time, do all the coaches who are supposed to vote, actually vote every week? I believe there is a deadline. What if one or more coaches just don't get it done some weeks? Interesting question. I assume they all have to submit something each week and some just resumbit the previous week's entry if they aren't going to meet the deadline. (or perhaps there's just a default that the previous week's entry will be used if a new entry isn't submitted by the deadline.)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2005 18:55:09 GMT -5
I think you could easily tell the answer to whether all coaches turn in their votes each week but totally the number of #1 votes in each poll. I can't reember a time when that total wasn't the 60 as would be indicated by the number of coaches on the voting panel, however, I guess someone could go though all of the old polls on the AVCA site to check. No wonder you always beat me to posting something, Gorf. You don't bother to check your spelling. Doof
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Post by Gorf on Nov 21, 2005 18:56:34 GMT -5
I also have wondered from time to time, do all the coaches who are supposed to vote, actually vote every week? I believe there is a deadline. What if one or more coaches just don't get it done some weeks? So one week, you have a coach or two with one impression or anotehr as to who is playing well and who deserves such and such a rank, but they don't get their votes in....and the next week, they do all get their votes in. Cause skewing and odd results, especially with a few ponts here and there. Any way to tell if everyone gets their votes in? Well, we know there are 60 people eligible to vote and that all 60 people voted for a first place team, so we know everyone voted. Someone could add all the points and determine whether every voter voted for each of the top 25 teams, but I ain't gonna do it. Totalling all the points wouldn't work because the poll doesn't list teams that gain only 1 point. They simply don't seem to list teams that voted on a by a single coach, however, that could leave a team with more points than some that are listed not listed on the poll results. An example would be a team ranked on one coach's list at 22nd and getting 3 points but not being listed as opposed to 25th on two coach's lists and gettig 2 points and being listed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2005 19:01:44 GMT -5
There are also backups to the 60 voters. I'm sure they have 60 every week. But if the voters _change_ (and they do), that could make a difference.
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Post by Gorf on Nov 21, 2005 19:03:36 GMT -5
I think you could easily tell the answer to whether all coaches turn in their votes each week but totally the number of #1 votes in each poll. I can't reember a time when that total wasn't the 60 as would be indicated by the number of coaches on the voting panel, however, I guess someone could go though all of the old polls on the AVCA site to check. No wonder you always beat me to posting something, Gorf. You don't bother to check your spelling. Doof That's (R)uffda!'s job as my editor, and he's been slipping in that regard. Even in spell checking some of his own posts. Plus, I do type pretty fast - especially when motivated but my mind goes (and wanders) much faster than my fingers can type (even at 100 wpm when I'm mostly awake) or my mouth can speak.
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Post by gobears on Nov 21, 2005 19:03:44 GMT -5
I never see any ties either....yet I assume some coaches would want to choose that.
I do think it might be likely that there is a default to use last week's list if the coach doesn't get in a new list in time.
60 busy coaches??? There has got to be some glitches in voting.
add on: I forgot about the backups. I'll bet they get used often.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2005 19:14:41 GMT -5
Well, we know there are 60 people eligible to vote and that all 60 people voted for a first place team, so we know everyone voted. Someone could add all the points and determine whether every voter voted for each of the top 25 teams, but I ain't gonna do it. Totalling all the points wouldn't work because the poll doesn't list teams that gain only 1 point. They simply don't seem to list teams that voted on a by a single coach, however, that could leave a team with more points than some that are listed not listed on the poll results. An example would be a team ranked on one coach's list at 22nd and getting 3 points but not being listed as opposed to 25th on two coach's lists and gettig 2 points and being listed. Sorry, I do not understand why it would not work in determining whether each voter voted for a top 25 team. The name of a team is irrelevant. Adding the total number of points would indicate whether each voter submitted a ballot with 25 teams. With 60 voters and with 1-25 rankings amounting to 325 points, there are 19,500 total points. I have not done so yet, but one can add up all the points shown on the AVCA poll and see if it totals 19,500. As the following from the AVCA poll results make clear, all the points that correspond to a each voters ballot are accounted for. Others receiving points and listed on two or more ballots: UC Santa Barbara (18-8) 32, Tennessee (20-8) 21, Saint Mary's (18-8) 20, Colorado (14-10) 17, Marshall (27-5) 15, Pepperdine (17-11) 15, Colorado State (19-7) 12, Northwestern (18-10) 12, Maryland (26-3) 9, Alabama (23-9) 7, Sacramento State (25-7) 5, New Mexico State (19-6) 3. Three teams mentioned on only one ballot for a total of four (4) combined points.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2005 19:23:19 GMT -5
Case closed: I counted all the points on todays AVCA poll and the sum is 19,500. Therefore each of the 60 voters, or his/her designate or default mechanism, voted for a top 25 team.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2005 19:41:59 GMT -5
publius, I think you should double-check your work.
We'll wait...
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Post by Pirate VB Fan on Nov 21, 2005 20:13:50 GMT -5
Did anyone notice that there have been changes in the number of points for 2nd and 3rd place each week, with those points usually going up? That means that some voters have not been voting the "Big Three" 1st to 3rd.
This week PSU and UW combine for 2819. Take off one point for the 1st place vote for PSU, and you would expect the two of them to total 2820 points. This week PSU and UW gained a total of 11 points. That means last week there were 12 points voted lower than 3rd for those two teams.
I think voting PSU 1st is much more plausible than 12 voters voting PSU or UW 4th (or a smaller number voting them even lower than 4th). This week there are still two points for PSU or UW not 1st to 3rd meaning either two votes at 4th or one at 5th.
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Post by Gorf on Nov 21, 2005 21:28:50 GMT -5
Totalling all the points wouldn't work because the poll doesn't list teams that gain only 1 point. They simply don't seem to list teams that voted on a by a single coach, however, that could leave a team with more points than some that are listed not listed on the poll results. An example would be a team ranked on one coach's list at 22nd and getting 3 points but not being listed as opposed to 25th on two coach's lists and gettig 2 points and being listed. Sorry, I do not understand why it would not work in determining whether each voter voted for a top 25 team. The name of a team is irrelevant. Adding the total number of points would indicate whether each voter submitted a ballot with 25 teams. With 60 voters and with 1-25 rankings amounting to 325 points, there are 19,500 total points. I have not done so yet, but one can add up all the points shown on the AVCA poll and see if it totals 19,500. As the following from the AVCA poll results make clear, all the points that correspond to a each voters ballot are accounted for. Others receiving points and listed on two or more ballots: UC Santa Barbara (18-8) 32, Tennessee (20-8) 21, Saint Mary's (18-8) 20, Colorado (14-10) 17, Marshall (27-5) 15, Pepperdine (17-11) 15, Colorado State (19-7) 12, Northwestern (18-10) 12, Maryland (26-3) 9, Alabama (23-9) 7, Sacramento State (25-7) 5, New Mexico State (19-6) 3. Three teams mentioned on only one ballot for a total of four (4) combined points. You're right. I've updated my spreadsheet to include an "unapplied points" cell and a cell for "total points" so those will appear in my table after next week's poll is released. See Mr. Publius - I can agree with you on occasion.
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