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Post by BruinBoy on Mar 15, 2004 3:37:10 GMT -5
So, how long is it going to be before the professional players at BYU are exposed and they are made to vacate their 2001 championship. Its common knowledge that Moreno played for BANESPA in Brazil and that is a pro club. NO WAY TO PLAY FOR THAT CLUB WITHOUT BEING A PRO. And Passoa has also played pro and Paal, and now their new guy is being accused of the same. EVERYONE knew that Costas did but it took 5 years before someone finally came out and did something about it. EVERYONE seems to just want to go after Lewis for some reason, but speaking as a West Coast guy, I'd love to see someone go after BYU, and expose them for what they are.
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Post by benwhipdrofn on Mar 15, 2004 9:24:45 GMT -5
From what I understand, there are alot of pro players on quite a few teams. Only those who actually get far are found out. If all the pro players were exposed, it would be a completely different league.
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Post by Smooth "954" Mike on Mar 15, 2004 10:01:22 GMT -5
BruinBoy,
You are familiar with the Domino effect? That’s what’s going to happen, it's just a matter of time before BYU gets what they deserve.
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Post by benwhipdrofn on Mar 15, 2004 10:06:27 GMT -5
is there a pro league in Porta Rico or just very good clubs. What about Canada. This past weekend we were up there and everything is sooooo hockey there, that when I asked people about men's volleyball, they were suprised to hear that some of their colleges even had the program.
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Post by vballguy2001 on Mar 15, 2004 11:23:18 GMT -5
College volleyball is really messy right now, cause of these Players that played pro, and their coaches disregarding the rules. If I was a coach right now, why would I even get close to bringing a Moreno, Baptista to my program. No matter how good they are why even risk it. The way I see it is just playing with fire, and sooner or later they are going to get burned. It is a shame that the NCAA has to wait til they win the National Championship before they investigate.
2004 National Championship? removed 2003 National Championship? removed 2002 National Championship? removed
I hope it doesn't come to this. Coaches please get responsible and clean up your programs, before the NCAA just gets rid of all volleyball???
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Post by VBbeast on Mar 15, 2004 12:01:51 GMT -5
is there a pro league in Porta Rico or just very good clubs. ================================= About a year and a half ago the NCAA essentially began classifying the "Superior League" in Puerto Rico as a professional league. This was due largely to the league allowing foreign players to compete. Whether or not it was professional prior to that is a subject for debate, but essentially a moot point as it was classified as a national program developmental league and therefore "ok"
Im not aware of any professional league in Canada.
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Post by lalalaluuuke on Mar 15, 2004 12:04:34 GMT -5
Bruinboy,
Can you please offer us links to the sites where you have come up with all of this accusatory information on illegal players? I'm sure everybody would like to see where you are getting this from and not just pass it off as "common knowledge" because unless we see it then it is "common hearsay."
You are right in that it is never suspect unless the team carrying questionable player(s) wins it all.
Also Bruinboy are you referring to Fernando Pessoa as being the illegal player on the 2001 team or Luka Slabe? Carlos Moreno wasn't on that team; neither was Rafael Paal.
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Post by Beachy on Mar 15, 2004 13:06:01 GMT -5
I certainly agree that there are some players whose eligiblity is questionable. But to run off on this forum with accusations is inappropriate. If you have any sort of proof, PLEASE FORWARD TO NCAA !! Report these players and let the NCAA do their job. You could even forward this information to the BYU administration and they would probably take action (just as Lewis is taking action). To accuse player on this forum seems unfair.
To volleyguy2001-you are vacating the 2004 Championship before it has been played. At least let the teams play for it. BYU might not even win (of course not, Long Beach will! ;D)
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Post by vballguy2001 on Mar 15, 2004 14:09:08 GMT -5
I certainly agree that there are some players whose eligiblity is questionable. But to run off on this forum with accusations is inappropriate. If you have any sort of proof, PLEASE FORWARD TO NCAA !! Report these players and let the NCAA do their job. You could even forward this information to the BYU administration and they would probably take action (just as Lewis is taking action). To accuse player on this forum seems unfair. To volleyguy2001-you are vacating the 2004 Championship before it has been played. At least let the teams play for it. BYU might not even win (of course not, Long Beach will! ;D) I am not vacating the 2004 National Championship. Just merely stating that it will be really sad if it comes to that. It's starting to be a trend. I hope it stops. Don't u agree?
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Post by vballguy2001 on Mar 15, 2004 14:19:23 GMT -5
This is what I know about professional status. Maybe you guys can add or subtract to what I say. I have gotten this info from some college coaches.
In 2001 the NCAA changed the way they looked at Professional status and then included the Superior league in Puerto Rico as a Pro league.
Now the problem with Hawaii, and Lewis, from what i understand, that any kind of athlete that plays on the Professional Level and takes any amount of money is considered pro. That is why Costas is in trouble. I don't quite understand why the Lewis guy has gotten investigated. Although I do know that he had to sit out the 2001 season because of the same reason. So I guess it would make sense that if he is considered pro in 2001. What makes him not a pro in 2003?
Is this the basic understanding of being pro? are their loopholes that coaches are jumping through to state they aren't pro? It seems pretty cut and dry.
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Post by BruinBoy on Mar 15, 2004 16:35:14 GMT -5
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Post by roy on Mar 15, 2004 16:51:23 GMT -5
I don't think you have been on this forum long enough to know that this happens to a number of threads. Roger, the moderator for this forum, will pull threads for various reasons, such as vicious attacks on other posters or blantantly slanderous attacks on a player. You can probably contact Roger and find out why he pulled the thread. Frankly, I don't remember it all that clearly, but I think everything was in Portuguese, so it wouldn't have made a lot of sense to a lot of people here anyway. And like Beachy says, why are you complaining to us? We are fans of the sport and generally love good volleyball. But we can't do anything about it, since most of us have no clue as to what is going on in the first place. If you have a complaint and the websites that show the players are professional, send it to the BYU athletic director or the NCAA.
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Post by benwhipdrofn on Mar 15, 2004 18:14:16 GMT -5
From what I can see, there are only a few top teams that don't have "pro" players on them. The problem is that the NCAA has too many loop holes that coaches can slide through (or athletic directors). Since the rules for Div 1 and Div. 2 are different, that creates even more holes. Then with the changing of the rules for the different countries, more holes. I even read one rules that stated some blah blah blah about if a player is a pro at this point in time, but then vacated his status, then signs with a team for so many blah blah blah, then takes this test, then red shirts, blah blah blah. TOO MANY LOOP HOLES !!! Of course, if you are a coach and you see a player that is awesome, you are going to look for one of those loop holes to sign them. BUT while one loop hole gets you your player, the moment you are sucessful, there is another loops hole that you didn't see that slams you and your player down. Other players on the team are caught in the middle of the whole mess. From what I've seen and heard, coaches know what their players are doing and have done, so does the AD's, what's sad is that other players on the team are getting slammed too. Lewis is a mess right now, Hawaii is a mess, BYU is a mess and there are more! BUT there are some great players on those teams that just wanted to be a part of what seemed to be a good program. There are also some great coaches out there that just got caught up in it all.
Be careful not to slam the guys in the middle that are just playing ball.
Why can't the coaches when recruiting foreign players be allowed only to recruit those from clubs and high schools. Wouldn't this eliminate them from recruiting pros? I don't mind the foreign players and I do think they add to the game, but there has to be a limit. I don't think the pro status is limited to just foreign players. American's can go play pro for other countries too. And on behalf of the foreign players, they come here to get a good education and have a coach saying...don't worry it's ok. These players can't understand the NCAA legal red tape. They are trusting coaches and AD's.
As far as UCLA goes, I liked the program until the coach made his famous comments. While he doesn't have any foreign players on his team (at the moment) he made allot of people mad. He is intitled to his own opinion, but I just have a feeling that he is not as "lily pure clean" as he appears. If he steps out of line, there are alot of coaches and players out there that won't show him any mercy. He shouldn't have done that the way he did. He could have voiced his opinion with a little more professionalism......but that is just my opinion.
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Post by PukaPants on Mar 15, 2004 18:50:59 GMT -5
No you didn't just unleash the CAPS!! There you go again...whine whine whine.....
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Post by cougarize on Mar 15, 2004 20:26:23 GMT -5
BBOY ARE YOU JUST SAD THAT UCLA CAN'T CHEAT AS WELL AS BYU? LONG LIVE THE CHEATING COUGARS!!!!!!! In all seriousness, we can banter back and forth about this till we're all blue in the face. Why don't you do something about it? Call Val Hale the BYU Men's AD or the NCAA as ROY as suggested. BYU has a successful athletic program and there are many influential folks that are friendly to the school, but I'm sure Roger is not one of them, although I wish he was! ;D
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