|
Post by Pirate VB Fan on Sept 18, 2006 12:20:04 GMT -5
I would consider Arizona State a quality win this year. Arizona State has beaten Loyola MM 3-0, Crushed Notre Dame 3-0, crushed a good Michigan State team 3-0 and played Purdue to a five gamer. Arizona State is a good team this year and a top 25 team. They will finish no worse than 6th in the PAC 10 and make the tournament. Well, they certainly won't finish *better* than 6th (not with, in N to S order, Washington, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC - OK, I am not sure which is northern most between USC and UCLA). I think they will be 6th to 8th, fighting it out with AZ and OU) with OSU and WSU pulling up the rear. But 6th should be in the tournament and 7th very well could be if the gap between 6th and 7th is not large.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 12:21:49 GMT -5
UCLA's further north, right?
|
|
|
Post by chipNdink on Sept 18, 2006 12:33:32 GMT -5
Good job guys, way to hijack this thread! Ooops, forgot it's "Pirate" week, so: Good work there mateys, way to "Shanghai" this thread!
|
|
|
Post by hoosierman on Sept 18, 2006 12:37:29 GMT -5
1. Penn State 2. Minnesota 3. Purdue 4. OSU 5. Wisconsin 6. Michigan 7. Northwestern 8. Illinois 9. Michigan State 10. Iowa 11. Indiana
Wow. That 2-7 is pretty tight, it seems.
Anyway, that's what I think. Go Hoosiers!
Arrrrgh, mateys.
|
|
|
Post by easterfall21 on Sept 18, 2006 13:42:10 GMT -5
1. Penn State 2. Ohio State 3. Purdue 4. Minnesota 5. Wisconsin 6. Northwestern 7. Michigan 8. Indiana 9. Michigan State 10. Illinois 11.Iowa
true test will be 2nd weekend for Purdue, PSU and OSU at home in the boiler box
|
|
|
Post by Gorf on Sept 18, 2006 15:06:39 GMT -5
I would consider Arizona State a quality win this year. Arizona State has beaten Loyola MM 3-0, Crushed Notre Dame 3-0, crushed a good Michigan State team 3-0 and played Purdue to a five gamer. Arizona State is a good team this year and a top 25 team. They will finish no worse than 6th in the PAC 10 and make the tournament. Basically your basing your premise of ASU being a quality win this year on a 5 game loss to Purdue? Notre Dame and Louisville have both been in freefall over the last two week's rankings with niether being in the top 25 at this point. Plus, Michigan State isn't even in the category of "others receiving votes".
|
|
|
Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Sept 18, 2006 15:20:30 GMT -5
You have to define quality, I guess. I did early on.
Notre Dame and Louisville certainly aren't top 25 teams, but then again, ASU beat them up pretty good. It's not like Notre Dame and Louisville are Oakland.
You have to be careful not to treat the world in a binary fashion as "the good" and "the rest." It's a long way from from beating up Michigan St, Notre Dame, and Louisville, even in a down year, to beating up teams like Lehigh.
Good solid wins over the 50 - 100 teams of the world (where you find ND, Louisville, Mich St - bottom half big ten teams are generally in the 50 - 100 range except for the very bottom, and Mich St isn't IU) and the occasional competitive loss against the top 25 are the hallmarks of teams in the top 25 - 50. That's what ASU has been doing. No big upset wins, but then again, no bad upset losses.
|
|
|
Post by edburby on Sept 18, 2006 15:37:43 GMT -5
1. PSU 2. Minnesota 3. Purdue 4. Wisconsin 4. OSU 6. Michigan 7. NW 8. Mich State 9. Iowa 10. Illinois 11. Indiana
Wisc / OSU will split, both swept by PSU Minn will split with PSU, the lion's only loss of the season
Everyone says Wisc is overrated, this may be true - but the Big Ten Season will bring out a lot of firepower and determination from the Badgers... namely Carlini and Bladow - they will fire up the rest of the squad without a problem.
|
|
|
Post by caljr on Sept 18, 2006 15:46:39 GMT -5
My guess is that Katie Johnson will get the last laugh on Gorf. He laughs at Michigan State and I believe Michigan State (along with Illinois) is the most improved team in the league. But then again, I may not have the volleyball expertise of posters like Gorf.
|
|
|
Post by dontknowjack on Sept 18, 2006 16:26:16 GMT -5
This could be another year when 8 teams get to dance the dance come season's end...
|
|
|
Post by Gorf on Sept 18, 2006 16:54:33 GMT -5
You have to define quality, I guess. I did early on. It guess it depends on what method you're using to rank the teams in order to use your definition of top 50 teams since Pablo is the only method that appears to rank teams down to that level or lower. Even using a top 50 ranking isn't good enough to define a quality win IMO. Washington sweeping Louisville, Notre Dame or Michigan State would certainly not count as quality wins. Quality wins frequently constitute wins over teams ranked higher than the team we're looking at for quality wins. We'll know which wins truly count as quality wins at the end of the season for teams ranked out of the top 25. You can't safely make that statement using any method other than Pablo and even you have stated that Pablo takes more than the current numner of matches played to start being more accurate. Using the AVCA poll - Louiville is #33, Notre Dame and Michigan State aren't mentioned at all. Arizona State and Oakland are not mentioned either. Arizona State appears to be much improved over last year, however, that doesn't mean that wins over the teams mentioned actually count as being quality wins. You simply can't count a win over a 50-100 ranked team as a quality win without comparing the ranking of the team you're evaluating for having quality wins. If Arizona State had defeated Purdue it would have been a quality win. In losing it was a "good" loss since it was a close match with a highly ranked team. Purdue defeating Arizona State, even though Arizona State is likely a top 50 ranked team does not constitute a quality win for Purdue at this point.
|
|
|
Post by Gorf on Sept 18, 2006 16:57:24 GMT -5
My guess is that Katie Johnson will get the last laugh on Gorf. He laughs at Michigan State and I believe Michigan State (along with Illinois) is the most improved team in the league. But then again, I may not have the volleyball expertise of posters like Gorf. I didn't laugh at Michigan State. I simply said they can't be counted as a quality win for Arizona State at this point because neither they or Arizona State are ranked at this point so there is no way of making a relevant comparison regarding a quality win for one over the other.
|
|
|
Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Sept 18, 2006 17:10:22 GMT -5
Even using a top 50 ranking isn't good enough to define a quality win IMO. Then there aren't many quality wins in the world. Top 25 teams don't lose very often. But we aren't talking about Louisville, ND, or Michigan St as quality wins. We are talking about beating a team that handily beat ND, Louisville, and Mich St as being a quality win. By that definition, the #1 team has no quality wins. Similarly, if Lehigh were to beat Southern Illinois, that would be a quality win. That's not a very useful usage, I don't think. And there won't be very many, if this is your guideline. I think it is far, far, far too restrictive. 1) Pablo isn't that far off right now. Pablo can certainly tell the difference between a 25 - 50 team and a 125 - 150. Heck, Pablo's success rate of 83.9% was one of the best week's since I have started tracking it. No, when I say Pablo is not the most accurate, it means that maybe now the uncertainty is +/- 10 positions, as opposed to +/- 7 at the end of the year. 2) I don't need Pablo now to know that the bottom half of the Big Ten is generally in the 50 - 100 range, with the very, very bottom being 120ish. This is based on the trends of lots of seasons as judged not only by Pablo but also by BCR and even RPI. Which means absolutely nothing. Arizona St isn't going to get mentioned in the top 30, because no one thinks they are in the top 30. Of course, no one is suggesting they are, either. OTOH, ask voters to list a top 50... Already corrected Dude, we aren't talking about Arizona St's quality wins. We are talking about whether BEATING Arizona St is a quality win. I've argued that Arizona St's wins over Louisville, ND, and Mich St, and it's competitive loss to Purdue indicate that it is within the top 50, which you appear to concede. If you don't think a win over a top 50 team is a quality win, then, well, we have different opinions of what is quality.
|
|
|
Post by Gorf on Sept 18, 2006 17:25:51 GMT -5
I've already stated that a win over a top 50-100 ranked team doesn't necessarily constitute a quality win.
As I said previously it would't constitute a quality win for Washington (or any other top 25 ranked team) to beat a top 50-100 ranked team. That would be an expected win not a quality win.
Simply using a teams ranking in the top 50-100 is not enough to constitute a win over that team as being a quality win. You have to also compare the relative ranking of the teams in question.
I also believe what may look like a quality win now may not realistically count as a quality win at the end of the season (and vice versa).
Plus, yes we are talking about Arizona State's wins as well, because the post I orignally responded to defined Arizona State as being a quality win by using their wins over Louisville, Notre Dame, and Michigan State.
|
|
|
Post by edburby on Sept 18, 2006 18:25:43 GMT -5
This could be another year when 8 teams get to dance the dance come season's end... ...Best post in this whole thread. Definitely the most accurate!
|
|