|
Post by Gorf on Feb 16, 2007 19:01:50 GMT -5
Could you list some of the players that returned from the national team injured?
I don't recall any specific references to that happening, especially not as a result of training regimin, styles, or techniques.
|
|
|
Post by beachman on Feb 16, 2007 19:33:48 GMT -5
I will only tell you, without getting specific, that there are several coaches, at the elite level, who have refrained in recent years(the last couple) from sending their top players to the OTC. Yes, Long Beach State is one and I could name at least 4 or 5 players who came back with horrible cases of tendonitis in their knees and lower back problems. It has a lot to do with the surfaces that they have played on while there, and the type of training and repetitive motion workouts that they do that cause players to be injured.....IT'S NOT JUST BG!!
|
|
|
Post by beachman on Feb 16, 2007 19:35:57 GMT -5
As a fan and as a booster I do NOT think that it is a smart thing to do to send your players there, while on SCHOLARSHIP TO PLAY AT THEIR HOME SCHOOL, only to have them return them BROKEN. These kids are being PAID to play at the OTC, they are being PAID to play at the school that is funding their scholarship....that kind of sums up my thoughts and I am sure the thoughts of many others out there!
|
|
|
Post by doc on Feb 16, 2007 22:55:33 GMT -5
FYI Folks. there are coaches out there who have been burned too many times by the National Team Folks.....sent too many healthy players off to the OTC only to see hurt ones return.....that may be the reason why some coaches aren't in a big hurry to send their players off to Colorado Springs! I understand what you are saying beachman but what about the player who dreams of playing for their country and wants to go while they still have eligibility left like Metcalf did at Nebraska. I would think it would be hard for the college coach to keep a player from pursuing that opportunity.
|
|
|
Post by doc on Feb 16, 2007 22:57:33 GMT -5
The first tryout at Creighton had two players with National team potential. The best, by far, was Atherstone from Cal Poly. Had there not been some sort of glitch w/ Cal Poly SID, this kid would have been honorable mention All-American...at least. She is the best back row attacker in the nation - yes, better than Pavan Better than Pavan? I guess people will get to compare when they play each other next fall in Lincoln.
|
|
|
Post by beachman on Feb 17, 2007 1:00:11 GMT -5
FYI Folks. there are coaches out there who have been burned too many times by the National Team Folks.....sent too many healthy players off to the OTC only to see hurt ones return.....that may be the reason why some coaches aren't in a big hurry to send their players off to Colorado Springs! I understand what you are saying beachman but what about the player who dreams of playing for their country and wants to go while they still have eligibility left like Metcalf did at Nebraska. I would think it would be hard for the college coach to keep a player from pursuing that opportunity. I guess just speaking for myself, I would answer like this.....very few of these young ladies are ever going to make the National Team, let's face it, it's a numbers game. Having said that, IF THEY ARE GOOD ENOUGH, they will still probably make the national team.....if a local coach isn't skilled enough to teach his players as well as JLP and her coaches can, then so be it, send em! If the local coach feels that he or she can do as good a job then as far as I am concerned keep em home, have em lift, work out(beach is very non physicall stressful) and they can still get better. When double days start at least they are healthy and can make a contribution to the team that "brung em to the dance" so to speak.....I can think of 4 players, off of the top of my head, all whom made AA at LBS, who returned from a month with the National Team a physical disaster area....two of them missed the first month of the season, and another struggled with serious tendonitis in the knees as well as a shore shoulder off and on the entire season.....I will say that I think that the coach and his/her players have to be on the same page on this issue, but frankly going to the OTC is more a decision for ME, if you get my drift, and not for the TEAM!
|
|
|
Post by vbuzz on Feb 17, 2007 2:34:03 GMT -5
I would have to agree that Atherstone is a delight to watch, she was probably the best RS hitter I have seen other than Pavan all year last season. It'll be interesting to see both go head-to-head when they face each other this upcoming season. Although she would be going up against one of/or probably the best hitting trio in the country (Pavan, Larson, and Houghtailing). Many thought, Atherstone should have been the outright Big West POY, instead of sharing that honor with Alexis Crimes of LBSU. I totally agree, she should have gotten Big West POY all to herself.
|
|
|
Post by Gorf on Feb 17, 2007 2:44:31 GMT -5
I will only tell you, without getting specific, that there are several coaches, at the elite level, who have refrained in recent years(the last couple) from sending their top players to the OTC. Yes, Long Beach State is one and I could name at least 4 or 5 players who came back with horrible cases of tendonitis in their knees and lower back problems. It has a lot to do with the surfaces that they have played on while there, and the type of training and repetitive motion workouts that they do that cause players to be injured.....IT'S NOT JUST BG!! It's somewhat difficult to believe that the injuries you describe are the result of NT training if it isn't happening to the majority of players that participate. Is it not just a plausible that the phyical training those player received prior to working with the NT didn't have them in good enough physical condition to be sent there to participate? I know from past studying of some of those things and their relationship for volleyball that one of the causes for low back pain from playing / practicing is those players not having worked on strengthening their hamstrings enough. A typical reasonably athletic person would have hamstrings that are 40% as strong as their quads. For people playing sports like volleyball it's commonly recommended that they have hamstrings that are at least 80% as strong as their quads. Especially if they're players that are jumping a lot. The hamstrings help cushion the landing after jumping. Weaker hamstrings also make it more difficult to maintain a low defensive position for reasonable extended periods of time while playing / practicing. Eeither of those can result in overuse of some of the muscles in the back to compensate for the weaker than necessary hamstrings. If that is the case for some / most of the players you're referring to then perhaps it's for the best that their coaches don't send their players to work with the NT if the players would be better off gaining additional physical / weight training during the spring with their school staff.
|
|
|
Post by sexy on Feb 17, 2007 3:34:28 GMT -5
Wow! Cassie Busse has three knees? only when she is called for a 'lift'
|
|
|
Post by beachman on Feb 17, 2007 9:12:15 GMT -5
Gorf, at the expense of perhaps dragging this thread out far too long let me just make another observation.....These kids finish their seasons in early to mid December.....they then take about a month and a half off before they start their Individuals with their coaches....at the conclusion of their individuals they start their six weeks(I think) of Spring ball, which usually ends around June....then they have summer free until the start of double days, which is usually early August, with the season starting in late August....so when do they really get to rest? Ta Da, how about June and July....or if they go to the OTC they not only don't rest, but they are involved in VERY INTENSE WORKOUTS, very intense is NOT a misnomer either.....now they do this at a time when they have essentially been either off for awhile or during a time where strength training may be a better course of training than going to the OTC and slamming balls for up to six hours a day, and/or jumping up and down all day long.....maybe you might want to check out how they do their drills and the icing.....I suspect that if you are as informed about these as I think that you are you might understand what some of these coaches have been concerned about....sure everyone is different, but I am just trying to explain that there are good reasons why some of the coaches have become exasperated with our National Team folks, and with USA Volleyball
|
|
|
Post by iknowiu on Feb 17, 2007 11:01:19 GMT -5
What do you mean by "time off?" That does not really happen...athletes are too concerned with coming back out of condition. Even summers are a joke...gym time happens no matter what. If the kids aren't working out by themselves or with the team, then they are bumping, hitting, etc.
It does not matter if the subject is Nationals or any other any other labeled volleyball activity. MORE is MORE. It's about $$$ and keeping people employed. It is about philosophy and attitude of those running these ultra-elite, additional, money-making, showcase events.
As long as there is an endless supply of talented young athletes just dying for a chance to compete at the next level, there will be coaches who love the idea of added prestige for their programs when their girls make or even just try out for Nationals.
How much is too much for a body? Will there ever be a REAL limit. Doesn't look like it.
|
|
|
Post by beachman on Feb 17, 2007 13:35:43 GMT -5
Hey, like you are implying, we see kids at the ages of 15 and 16 with debilitating repetitive injuries right now, especially among the female athletes. These young ladies, because of a myriad of reasons not the least of which is the fact that mommy and daddy are looking for a free college education(It ain't free, mom and dad) push their daughters to limits that their bodies won't be able to handle.....many, well before they get to college have already been a regular in the physical therapy place as well as patients for their local orthopedic surgeons.....they do need rest, but more importantly they need the correct CONDITIONING and WEIGHT TRAINING, while not playing VB or doing heavy stress volleyball drills for 3 to 6 hours a day, which is common, or has been common at the OTC.......frankly, at the OTC they don't give a %*$# about whether these kids get hurt,,,,,,can you say fresh meat?
|
|
|
Post by Gorf on Feb 17, 2007 15:44:41 GMT -5
Again, why doesn't it happen to the players from a plethora of other programs?
Stanford, UCLA and Minnesota (to name just a few team with multiple players on the current list of NT trainees) seem to fairly regulary send players to workout with the NT and I don't recall representatives from any of those schools complaining about their players returning injured.
Do you think Dunning, Banakowski, and Hebert would send so many of their starters to train with the NT if they were worried about those players returning with overuse injuries or injuries of any kind?
Your insinuations also don't make much sense in light of the number of teams who've performed much better in years that they've taking their foreign trips and ended up going through extra training, practices, and high level matches in the process during the off season.
At some point, teams / coaches that end up complaining about things like parents and the NT causing injuries in their recruits / players have to ask themselves why so many other teams don't have the same problems and look at what they're doing (or not doing) that potentially be a part of their own problems.
|
|
|
Post by beachman on Feb 17, 2007 21:59:24 GMT -5
Again, why doesn't it happen to the players from a plethora of other programs? Stanford, UCLA and Minnesota (to name just a few team with multiple players on the current list of NT trainees) seem to fairly regulary send players to workout with the NT and I don't recall representatives from any of those schools complaining about their players returning injured. Do you think Dunning, Banakowski, and Hebert would send so many of their starters to train with the NT if they were worried about those players returning with overuse injuries or injuries of any kind? Your insinuations also don't make much sense in light of the number of teams who've performed much better in years that they've taking their foreign trips and ended up going through extra training, practices, and high level matches in the process during the off season. At some point, teams / coaches that end up complaining about things like parents and the NT causing injuries in their recruits / players have to ask themselves why so many other teams don't have the same problems and look at what they're doing (or not doing) that potentially be a part of their own problems. Hey Gorfie, I very distinctly remember an interview with John Dunning this past season, early in the season....He said that his team was sooo banged up that they didn't do double days for the first time since he arrived at Stanford. In fact, he remarked that they didn't even do single days due to the various injuries....so my friend, me thinks that you are more intent on just arguing than you are really discussing the topic at hand...anyway the injuries that were a result of OTC training are real, even if you don't want to admit it! Bye!!!
|
|
|
Post by Gorf on Feb 18, 2007 0:54:39 GMT -5
I notice you don't say he said he team was banged up from working out with the NT.
I imagine his team couldn't have been banged up from having only a month or two before the start of regular season practices spent a couple of weeks traveling, practicing, working out and playing matches on their European tour.
How many of their players actually spent time working out with the NT in 2006?
Oh, wait..
Not a single Stanford player on the US Women's NT tryout list for 2006.
2006 USA Women's National Team Open Tryout Participants (By Position)
LIBEROS Athlete (School) Tatum Ailes ( Missouri) Jacqueline Bemardin ( University of San Diego) Jennifer Casper ( Kentucky) Dannielle Cathcart ( Urbana) Kekai Crabbe (Pepperdine) Connie Dangerfield ( Utah) Jacqueline Gonzalez ( Houston) Adrienne Green ( Dayton) Candace Lee ( Washington) Kelli Mulvany ( Arizona) Shellane Ogoshi (Hofstra) Debora Seilhamer (USC) Blair Socci (UCLA)
MIDDLE BLOCKERS Athlete (School) Bethany Akerhielm ( Dayton) Kathryn Arvidson ( Florida Atlantic) Faye Barhorst ( Dayton) Katelyn Bishop (USC) Kelsey Bowers ( Florida) Alesha Deesing ( Washington) Robynne Green ( Dayton) Chelsy Hyser (Northwestern) Kristina Johnson ( Florida) Jessica Jones ( Minnesota) Lakisya Killingsworth ( Florida) Dominique Lamb ( Arizona) Kara McManus ( Oregon) Nana Meriwether (UCLA) Sophia Milo (Pepperdine) Meredith Nelson ( Minnesota) Jessica Nevitt ( Cincinnati) Veronica Ogbeide (Tyler JC) Lecca Roberts (Pepperdine) Emillie Toone ( Utah) Anna Vaughn ( Texas Christian) Nicole Wilson ( Missouri)
OUTSIDE HITTERS Athlete (School) Iana Andonova ( Florida Atlantic) Brooke Buringrud ( Arizona) Katie Carter (UCLA) Shonda Cole ( South Carolina) Jamie DeKiewiet (Cal-Riverside) Marcie Hampton ( Florida) Angela Jakubov ( Wichita State) Tess Rogers ( Colorado State) Julie Rubenstein (Pepperdine) Airial Salvo ( Utah) Kaitlin Sather (UCLA) Erica Short ( Indiana) Kelli Tennant (USC) Ami Stevens ( Ohio State)
OPPOSITES Athlete (School) Randy Goodenough ( Arizona) Audra Jeffers ( Wisconsin) Rachell Johnson (UCLA) Sara Lungren ( Wichita State) Amber McCray ( Florida) Jamie-Lee Richards ( Dayton) Jessica Vander Kooi ( Missouri)
SETTERS Athlete (School) Nirelle Hampton ( Texas Christian) Abby Harsh ( Wichita State) Heather Hughes (Loyola Marymount) Casey LaRocca ( Florida Atlantic) Marisa Main ( Ohio State) Angie McGinnis ( Florida) Ashley Nuu ( Colorado) Jacqueline Simpson ( Wisconsin) Kimberly Snider ( Towson) Mary (Nellie) Spicer (UCLA) Courtney Thompson ( Washington) Kari Turkowski ( St. Cloud State)
|
|