|
Post by chipNdink on Sept 23, 2007 3:02:58 GMT -5
... Not biased? There is nothing to support your claim here besides how Hawaii lost in 3 to Oregon St. in the first week of the season. ... OK, tell me why you think Hawaii should be ranked higher than Oregon State, if you don't think overall win/loss records should matter? You can't have it both ways, you can't say Hawaii's or NMSU's win/loss record shouldn't matter when compared with Washington and Oregon, but then argue Hawaii should be ranked higher than Oregon State.
|
|
|
Post by Cubicle No More ... on Sept 23, 2007 3:10:12 GMT -5
.. the 2 losses versus 3 losses thinking has less weight in light of who those losses were against. and c'mon, i know you're smart enough to know that having 2 losses compared to another team's 3 losses does not automatically make one team better than the other. we'd have an even crazier AVCA poll if that's the standard we're going by ... Oregon should be ranked higher than NMSU, because one of NMSU's losses was to Hawaii. oh i see, we shouldn't ignore HI's loss to Oregon St ... but it's okay to ignore who Oregon's lone loss was to ... the more you stick to your guns (admirably, i might add), the more you show your own bias (or should i say prejudice) and failure in reasoning ... no one's ignoring HI's loss to Oregon St ... i've admitted HI is ranked too high. but i think you probably just like hearing it when HI fans admit that ...
|
|
|
Post by HawaiiVB on Sept 23, 2007 3:15:35 GMT -5
And last year Hawaii kicked Oregon's sad butts. Even when the coach lost he still couldn't come to grips that Hawai'i beat them fair and square. It doesn't matter how teams are now. Its all about getting into the big dance.
Let's see how far Oregon gets versus Hawaii.
|
|
|
Post by aaronic on Sept 23, 2007 3:26:46 GMT -5
... Not biased? There is nothing to support your claim here besides how Hawaii lost in 3 to Oregon St. in the first week of the season. ... OK, tell me why you think Hawaii should be ranked higher than Oregon State, if you don't think overall win/loss records should matter? You can't have it both ways, you can't say Hawaii's or NMSU's win/loss record shouldn't matter when compared with Washington and Oregon, but then argue Hawaii should be ranked higher than Oregon State. Hawaii has better quality wins than Oregon State. Nuff sedd. That is why Hawaii is where they're at, and that is why Oregon State is at where they're at right now (they have not had any quality wins since just bad losses). Hawaii hasn't lost to anyone they weren't supposed to since Oregon State. Michigan is ranked in the Top 10- although after tonight this will change; UCLA is ranked in the Top 5. Yes they still did lose to Oregon State but as I said.... four weeks ago, haven't lost anyone they weren't supposed to lose to since (only #5 UCLA); and in the meantime have beaten some pretty good teams. Same with NMSU, they didn't lose to anyone they weren't supposed to lose to. Washington hasn't lost to anyone yet, but they haven't had many quality wins either (besides maybe LBSU), they are still undefeated and this is why they really haven't moved anywhere in the poll. Oregon's only loss prior came to Purdue, which is obviously not bad. Though same with Washington they have only beaten ranked Ohio St. So what if Washington also lost earlier in the season to Cal State Northridge, would you be speaking about them as you are speaking about Hawaii right now?
|
|
|
Post by pineapple on Sept 23, 2007 3:27:09 GMT -5
i think they will be fine on monday, kaufman and brandt are from cali so they for sure will have their family there. i think gregorys family drives to see the game too. but there is caroline blood, elise duggins, and stephanie ferrell who also live in california. i mean even though they never make the trip, maybe their family would still support the rest of the girls, if thats so that there will be tons of hawaii fans there. but anyways, how was the crowd? same as last seasons? yes, I'm sure their families will drive to see the game, especially Amber Kaufman's living in San Jose. My daughter lived there before moving back to Honolulu, and I'm familiar with the place. If she were still living there, I'd fly over. Oops! I told Wolfgang I'd be there with my pineapple outfit.
|
|
|
Post by chipNdink on Sept 23, 2007 3:27:46 GMT -5
Yes, last year Hawaii finished great! After seeing them destroy both Oregon and Long Beach at Long Beach, I was definitely rooting for them to beat both USC and UCLA back in Hawaii. The win over USC was incredible. Too bad they lost to UCLA. I loved seeing them beat Texas in the playoffs the year before also. Sure, Hawaii can and probably will make another incredible run towards playoff time, but that doesn't mean they are playing well right now. And a 5 gamer against NMSU (come on folks, be real), is NOT a good sign.
|
|
|
Post by chipNdink on Sept 23, 2007 3:32:41 GMT -5
... So what if Washington also lost earlier in the season to Cal State Northridge, would you be speaking about them as you are speaking about Hawaii right now? Yes, I would. If Washington already had 3 losses, and one of them was being swept by CSUN while playing at home in Seattle, I would NOT think Washington would or should be ranked in the top 25.
|
|
|
Post by aaronic on Sept 23, 2007 3:35:17 GMT -5
... So what if Washington also lost earlier in the season to Cal State Northridge, would you be speaking about them as you are speaking about Hawaii right now? Yes, I would. If Washington already had 3 losses, and one of them was being swept by CSUN while playing at home in Seattle, I would NOT think Washington would or should be ranked in the top 25. That's why there's a postseason.
|
|
|
Post by Gorf on Sept 23, 2007 3:47:26 GMT -5
... Going by win / loss records is highly subjective since the matches for each team have little if any overlap for the pre-conference match. Why do you keep ignoring the matches against Oregon State?? I'm not ignoring it. It happens to be circular logic (ie, you'd have to like Pablo actually search for similar combinations of matches for all oppnents and all of their opponents; nothing truly reliable comes from 2 matches.) It's like basing your arguments on pre-conference match records being highly subjective. Oregon has one less loss than NMSU. Oregon's losses to Purdue and Washington. NMSU's losses to Nebraska, Texas, Hawaii. Your earlier comment: "Because Oregon only had 1 loss (and should've been ranked higher)". Frankly, since your earlier comment listed above you were referring to the results prior to this week. So Oregon lost their 1 match to unranked Purdue while NMSU lost their 2 matches to #1 Nebraska and #7 Texas (both teams ranked higher than Washington and your new reason for knocking NMSU makes no sense because it happened this week not prior to this week and doesn't even remotely fit your above assertion. Do you honestly think Oregon would have faired better againsnt Texas and Nebraska than NMSU did? If NMSU had switched Nebraska and Texas in their schedule with a couple more cupcakes like Washington did then NMSU would very likey have been undefeated coming into this week as well. Why do you keep changing your reasons for trying to justify a higher ranking for Oregon? Washington's and Oregon's pre-conference schedules are both made up of all unranked teams which tells us mostly nothing. At least Hawaii and NMSU were willing to play ranked teams in their non-conference matches.
|
|
|
Post by pineapple on Sept 23, 2007 3:47:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand all the talk of UH traveling. They make the trip to the mainland 4 times this season, or 3 times if they stay on the mainland the 5-6 days between the Utah State match and the Nebraska match. That's either 3-4 long flights for 9 matches on the mainland. The 2nd and 3rd matches each trips are similar or or not excessively worse than match travels for many / most conferences plus they play ~2/3rds of their matches at home? What am I missing / misunderstanding in their travel issues? To understand how tiring and and out of sync you get travelling 5 hours across the pacific and another 3 or 4 hours to Louisiana, you have to experience it yourself. The time zone differences are what zap you, not just the travelling alone. The body has to acclimate. If you don't make the most out of rest in the airplane, you will find yourself falling asleep when you should be awake. Vice-versa. Just to travel to California in air is tiring. There is only so much space allotted to you in the airplane; you can't stretch out as in bed. You can't really rest and sleep. No mainland team coming to Hawaii undergoes the same rigorous travel requirements. They make the trip once and that's it. If lose to Hawaii, they don't use the long flight trip as an excuse. Likewise, hawaii has not used that excuse too, but we fans who understand how tiring it is to travel thousands of miles in an arplane in short periods of time, know it is a factor. I don't think any team on the mainland in any league travels the way Hawaii has to, or suffers the same way.
|
|
|
Post by HawaiiVB on Sept 23, 2007 3:51:15 GMT -5
And I would think Hawai'i would rather be with this win then with the lost. According to pablo's ranking, Hawai'i just upset NMSU.
|
|
|
Post by aaronic on Sept 23, 2007 4:05:38 GMT -5
So anyone know how Mafua did/looked? Or Brandt?
|
|
|
Post by pineapple on Sept 23, 2007 4:11:40 GMT -5
Yes, last year Hawaii finished great! After seeing them destroy both Oregon and Long Beach at Long Beach, I was definitely rooting for them to beat both USC and UCLA back in Hawaii. The win over USC was incredible. Too bad they lost to UCLA. I loved seeing them beat Texas in the playoffs the year before also. Sure, Hawaii can and probably will make another incredible run towards playoff time, but that doesn't mean they are playing well right now. And a 5 gamer against NMSU (come on folks, be real), is NOT a good sign. It is for me. For one, NMSU may be underranked. Or they may have even played with extra adrenalin. It is a good sign in that it indicated the spunkness of the Wahine. If Hawaii played in 5 against a team they were supposed to win handily, then I would agree with you. In any event, except for credentials, winning in 5 against a good team is a good sign to me.
|
|
|
Post by Gorf on Sept 23, 2007 4:35:15 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand all the talk of UH traveling. They make the trip to the mainland 4 times this season, or 3 times if they stay on the mainland the 5-6 days between the Utah State match and the Nebraska match. That's either 3-4 long flights for 9 matches on the mainland. The 2nd and 3rd matches each trips are similar or or not excessively worse than match travels for many / most conferences plus they play ~2/3rds of their matches at home? What am I missing / misunderstanding in their travel issues? To understand how tiring and and out of sync you get traveling 5 hours across the pacific and another 3 or 4 hours to Louisiana, you have to experience it yourself. The time zone differences are what zap you, not just the traveling alone. The body has to acclimate. If you don't make the most out of rest in the airplane, you will find yourself falling asleep when you should be awake. Vice-versa. Just to travel to California in air is tiring. There is only so much space allotted to you in the airplane; you can't stretch out as in bed. You can't really rest and sleep. No mainland team coming to Hawaii undergoes the same rigorous travel requirements. They make the trip once and that's it. If lose to Hawaii, they don't use the long flight trip as an excuse. Likewise, Hawaii has not used that excuse too, but we fans who understand how tiring it is to travel thousands of miles in an airplane in short periods of time, know it is a factor. I don't think any team on the mainland in any league travels the way Hawaii has to, or suffers the same way. I have had similar flights only my travel time was longer; which is why I don't understand the impact on the 2nd and 3rd matches of trips with the extra day off before each of those matches. 1) Delay on Maui because of tsunami bearing down on the islands so there were very heavy rains. 2) Maui -> Oahu. Followed by an even longer delay there as incoming flights have late arrival times from the mainland. 3) Oahu -> Seattle. Followed by another 2-3+ hour delay. 4) Seattle -> Minneapolis. Roughly 24 hours of travel with no sleep / rest - I believe I got home after 10 pm and was pretty much completely recovered by around noon the next days so perhaps 14 hours of sleep with breakfast with breaking up the 14 hours and consuming some time eating and watching one of those morning news shows for at least 30 minutes. The rest of that day was not necessary for further recovery - though I did sleep well when I did get back to bed. Let's just drop this segue and get back to the match itself (or other segues.) I can remain confused peacefully and easily.
|
|
|
Post by Gorf on Sept 23, 2007 4:38:40 GMT -5
Yes, last year Hawaii finished great! After seeing them destroy both Oregon and Long Beach at Long Beach, I was definitely rooting for them to beat both USC and UCLA back in Hawaii. The win over USC was incredible. Too bad they lost to UCLA. I loved seeing them beat Texas in the playoffs the year before also. Sure, Hawaii can and probably will make another incredible run towards playoff time, but that doesn't mean they are playing well right now. And a 5 gamer against NMSU (come on folks, be real), is NOT a good sign. It is for me. For one, NMSU may be underranked. Or they may have even played with extra adrenalin. It is a good sign in that it indicated the spunkness of the Wahine. If Hawaii played in 5 against a team they were supposed to win handily, then I would agree with you. In any event, except for credentials, winning in 5 against a good team is a good sign to me. Pablo and it's HCA actually predicted that NMSU would win the match.
|
|