|
Post by BearClause on Sept 30, 2007 18:54:09 GMT -5
In tournaments it is fine... Illegal to have in person scouting at any match outside of tournament play. True for coaches, but not for players. Players are not considered coaches or "athletics personnel", and the rules on in-person scouting only apply to those two categories. Someone brought up that there might be a specific Big West rule against players scouting, but I don't see any NCAA prohibition. The rule for coaches is that scouting during tournaments is allowable only at the same site where that coach's team is competing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2007 19:13:47 GMT -5
So what exactly is the purpose of this rule? To stop coaches from having too much control over the players off-court time?
|
|
|
Post by dcoach on Sept 30, 2007 20:04:05 GMT -5
To stop schools with unlimited resources from sending people to do live scouting.
|
|
|
Post by theskate on Sept 30, 2007 20:42:14 GMT -5
They knew better. Just so everybody knows... Cal Poly was guilty of the EXACT same video 'problem' last weekend. They beat Beach in three and did not post their match, hence Northridge could not watch it Saturday. Ironic actually. Live by the sword, die by the sword. well also just so everybody knows.. cal poly did end up uploading their match against long beach before the northrdige match AND also gave the northridge coaching staff a dvd copy of the match. i was talking to their student volunteer, who is a friend of mine, about the matter and he said it was an honest mistake (which he said he takes full responsibility, and apologizes for) that he did not get the video up by the deadline but, as previously stated, got it uploaded within the next hour and gave northridge the dvd.
|
|
|
Post by IdahoBoy on Sept 30, 2007 20:44:27 GMT -5
The buzz yesterday after UOP pulled off the unthinkable upset of Cal Poly: apparently UOP failed to upload their match vs. UCSB (as per Big West rules) and claimed "technical difficulties". Meanwhile, the Big West server was working and all other schools mananged to get their matches up on the Big West server (this is the equivalent to failing to provide a promissed tape in a tape exchange agreement). The "win at all cost" mentality is so bad in club, it is classless to say the least and downright cheating at worst that UOP pulled this weak stunt. It is not an excuse for Cal Poly, as UOP played well in games 2, 3, and 4. However, Poly has a staff that is expert in breaking down tape, UOP had changed their lineup the night before, and it is all too convenient to think it was mere coincidence. Bad form Charlie...but "if you're not cheating, you're not trying"...right? Or is it just plain wrong to do what UOP did. A hollow victory for them. I just had a daughter 8 days ago. I'd be honored if she played for Charlie Wade. Pacific was killed in game one. Sounds like the only thing Pacific can be blamed for is out-motivating their players and coming back strong with a new improved strategy to get the win. 14-30, 38-36, 30-27, 30-26 What I'd be interested to know is how do you know the video circumstances? I know a thing or two about the Big West rules, but don't recall anything about players being banned from seeing other matches. I know that coaches cannot attend other matches, but I've been with many players going to other team's matches. The AD must've really been stretching (and doing his homework) to single out the Pacific girls and remove them from the premises. Do the Big West conference rules really detail upload the previous night's match?? That seems like it has "technical difficulties" written all over it.
|
|
|
Post by bunnywailer on Sept 30, 2007 20:47:05 GMT -5
Who gives a crap? Scouting is freakin' waaaay overrated anyway. You don't get enough rotations in the rally-scoring era to take advantage of matchups or trends from the other team. The game is over before you've even gone 3 full rotations of your starting lineup.
Also, these are college kids. 75% of the time, as a coach, you tell them to execute something and it freakin' goes right over the top of their heads anyway.
"Hey, Susie Q, #19 from the other side is their pin blocker and she's only 5'5", #23 is their 6'5" middle blocker and she's really quick to close to the outside and she's probably touching 11'2" and getting WAAAY over with her hands. So...uhm...make sure you hit line on that side, huh?"
"Okay...coach...got it."
Then she proceeds to get roofed straight down on her next 4 swings from that side.
Scouting = OVERRATED
|
|
|
Post by dcoach on Sept 30, 2007 21:12:30 GMT -5
You must be kidding. Scouting is underrated and being well prepared for a match can be the difference. Susie Q above is not a realistic representation of these athletes. They are way more more academic than you portray.
|
|
|
Post by dcoach on Sept 30, 2007 21:14:43 GMT -5
And no, the AD was not stretching. Big West rules say that no in person scouting is allowed. They broke the rule.
|
|
|
Post by vbuzz on Sept 30, 2007 21:17:43 GMT -5
Agreed with 38skynyrd. Scouting don't mean a thing, if you're good.....the other teams can scout you all they want. It won't change the outcome.
|
|
|
Post by hammertime on Sept 30, 2007 21:22:21 GMT -5
I've been reading through this thread as I am a volleyball enthusiast and this thread caught my attention. As I have many links to the legal profession I was curious to the possible validity of the violations proposed or if they were just angry rants. As to the players coming to matches with notebooks it is very clear in NCAA rules that it is against their by-laws. The only exception being either a double-header game or in a tournament. This infraction would be what the NCAA calls a secondary violation and can be punishable by recruiting penalties or suspension of staff members. As well, if and I do state if University of Pacific did intend to not post the video in order to gain some sort of advantage this is also a secondary violation. And in accordance with NCAA rules multiple secondary violations can be collectively considered as a major violation. I have posted all the by-laws that I have used to come to my conclusions. I hope this will help some members understand the accusations being made.
11.6.1 Basketball, Football and Women's Volleyball Prohibition.
In basketball, football and women's volleyball, off-campus, in-person scouting of opponents is prohibited, except as provided in Bylaws 11.6.1.1
11.6.1.1 Regular-Season Tournaments, Double-Header Events or Postseason Tournaments.
An institution may pay the expenses of a member of its coaching staff to attend a regular-season or postseason tournament or, in basketball, a double-header event in which the institution's intercollegiate team is a participant. Under such circumstances, the individual may scout future opponents also participating in the same tournament at the same site or, in basketball, the same double-header event at the same site, without being subject to the scouting prohibition. (Revised: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94, 10/28/97 effective 8/1/98)
19.02.2.1 Violation, Secondary.
A secondary violation is a violation that is isolated or inadvertant in nature, provides or is intended to provide only a minimal recruiting, competitive or other advantage and does not include any significant recruiting inducement or extra benefit. Multiple secondary violations by a member institution may collectively be considered as a major violation. (Revised:1/11/94)
|
|
|
Post by dcoach on Sept 30, 2007 21:23:14 GMT -5
Ask Charlie Wade how much time he spends scouting his opponents. I am pretty sure he does not feel it is a waste of time.
|
|
|
Post by dcoach on Sept 30, 2007 21:24:33 GMT -5
Thank you hammertime, and welcome to the Forum.
|
|
|
Post by network155 on Sept 30, 2007 21:27:10 GMT -5
Ask Charlie Wade how much time he spends scouting his opponents. I am pretty sure he does not feel it is a waste of time. It sounds to me like you're...the kind of person who is a very bad loser. What are the odds that Pacific defeated the mighty Cal Poly....and now this. Congrats to Charlie and his team for the victory. Move on people!!!!
|
|
|
Post by farmingfamily on Sept 30, 2007 21:28:20 GMT -5
Does any of this have any thing to do with UOP beating Cal Poly or the fact it is a great school with a great coach?
|
|
|
Post by mervynpumpkinhead on Sept 30, 2007 21:33:29 GMT -5
Thank you hammertime, and welcome to the Forum. So should Charlie Wade be fired or drawn and quartered?
|
|