Chime In on What We Need to do to Develop Boys

[Mac]

This is a thread on the VB Mag board that I thought I'd bring here. We've done this before, but it can never be discussed too much. The thread starter posed this question:

"what's up with the quality of play these days?"
 
hey people,

dude, is it just me, or has the quality of volleyball changed over the years? USA men's volleyball made a respectable showing this year in the olympics. but come on... we used to be the best. does anyone remember those days? and does anyone have video footage from that era? just seems to me the quality of players moving up in the ranks today is not the same as when we had good young savy players.

even when i played in high school i saw a difference. though, i guess the san fernando valley teams i played against weren't the best we were respectable. today's players seem to have no grit to their game. maybe it's all that counter-strike they play instead of volleyball...

volleyball is life... well, i guess that we can debate that... but seriously... it's pretty darn close.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

vp pop

Sep-17-04, 11:34 AM (EST)

1. "RE: what's up with the quality of play these days?"
In response to message #0

In a sense CLUB is to blame. Too many young kids concentrating on volleyball rather than play multiple sports. Just because they are very good at 13 years of age don't mean they will be still be good in their late teens. Athleticism always wins in the end. Club coaches that have a fit when a kid misses practice to play basketball should get a grip. In the long run they are hurting that kid and the sport.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mac

Sep-17-04, 12:13 PM (EST)

2. "RE: what's up with the quality of play these days?"
In response to message #1
 <br> Agree w/ Pop. Cross training at early ages is the best way to develop all skills. Getting kids involved with VB earlier in age is really important. Before they ever pick up a volleyball, they are first exposed to T-ball, basketball, flag football, soccer, and roller hockey. The fact that any kid actually plays volleyball is amazing when all of those otehr sports got first shot at grabbing their passionate interest.

Is it a matter of the US decreasing in ability as much as it is other countries getting better? I think others have increased their intensity in their countries to a point where the sport is #1 or #2, and therefore the kids start earlier and play it as their priority sport.

If we had our best athletes in VB you'd have Kobe, MJ, (a thinner) Shaq, and others playing from their youth.

Club VB is the best way to get kids into a serious mindset early. But the cost of it is very prohibitive to inner city kids. We need more YMCA's and Boy's & Girl's Clubs to offer it and to make it possible for inner city kids to get serious coaching and to attend JOs with competitive teams. USA VB should support these kinds of strategies.

IMO.

What say you?

[spikethis]

I will have to disagree with you as far as playing multiple sports issue goes. I believe that is one of the biggest problems. It DOES make you more athletic but I think your ball control suffers tremendously. I think timewise, you spread yourself too thin if you play multiple sports. Perhaps when you are in elementary school , it is ok. As soon as you hit highschool, forget it. I'd say 1 sport and that's it.
I believe the secret is also in earlier specializations. I will give you an example- Russia's women (volleyball). They pretty much know what position they will play after first 2 or 3 years of playing. Same goes for the men. They ask them detailed info about your parents' height, they test your flexibility, reflexes, etc. (early on) so they get a picture of what position you should play. THere is some flexibility later on- you can switch from left to right side hitter, or from left(right) to libero, but almost NEVER from middle to outside and vice versa, or, God forbid, middle to setter.
On the other hand, international volleyball is vastly different as organization to US volleyball. In the US you start in elementary school (if you're lucky) than go to high school (switch coach) then play at club level (another coach) then college (another coach) and at the end a national team level (yet another coach). So you are changing WAAY to many coaches and most of them will change certain things about your game (some more-some less). This constant retraining will stall a player and slow them down (in my opinion). In Europe, for example, everything revolves arround the club system- preschool, elementary, highschool, college, professional "age" players are almost always based in a single club. So from the time you are 8 or 9 (they start way earlier- another difference) to the national team, they will pretty much stay at the same club and be coached by just a few coaches who COMMUNICATE with each other and know exactly what the other one teaches. It is very streamlined. Furthermore, every country has that 1 club that is better than the rest and most of the players will come from that club or move there (if they are very talented). So now you have a national team that consists of players who are mostly from 1 or 2 club teams and who have been playing together for years with same coach(es). Hence, their team chemistry is well established with their "technique" (ball control) similar and consistent.
US gets a different team every olympics with very few returners- including coaches.
Another huge difference is, as I said, age. They start a lot earlier.
The biggest, in my opinion, is ball control. They work a lot more at it. Especially men!!! Women work on it more than men in college. And it shows. Coaches in college (men) expect you to have all of your ball control established, so unless you get better by simply playing games and FEW drills- forget it. In Europe, they do those ball control exercises throughout their career. Eight, eighteen or twenty eight years old- you will do them. Of course, much less when you are twenty something but you still will. And yes, I mean those really boring things that you did in a volleyball camp like bouncing the ball above yourself or against the wall. The really repettitive and boring-as-hell things...you know what I'm talking about. They do them. Defense??? They do it a lot. There is a lot more emphasis on precision rather than strength. Going for those deep corners when hitting, passing freeballs EXACTLY to the setter...things like that. Like somebody else said in the forum, if you ever saw any college men warm up before the game, it becomes a testosterone zestpit. You will see exactly what NOT to do- hit a ball straight down and 2 inches above the tape (that is if it clears the tape). I do take my hat off to the few exceptions.
But the sad thing is is that it happens across the board- from UCLA to some Div 3 team- the same warmup crap.
This has been my comparison of international vs. US school of volleyball. I am not as familiar with US team (men) in the 80s vs. 90s and today so I cannot give you a non-vague cmparison. The only thing that I can think of is that Kiraly and Timmons and a few others (if I am right) played in multiple olympics while teams later on, as I said, change constantly. I mean, how many repeat olympians were there on this years team?

[foreignball]

spikethis said:

I will have to disagree with you as far as playing multiple sports issue goes. I believe that is one of the biggest problems. ....................................................
I believe the secret is also in earlier specializations.
.............................................................................

Nice comparison.
A lot of true facts except for the early specialization statement. Actually up to the age of 14-15 only setters know their position for sure. At that age any single player practices any single skill (including defense for MB’s) . Quite often a player that starts at OH today will start as a MB tomorrow. I guess it’s because coaches are not sure yet about kids size. I’ve seen players who played OH in club and MB in YNT. Right side hitting is a must for OH’s. Practically no Libero up to 16 and even after that the coach would simply hand out the different color jersey to somebody from OH’s right before the game. This past spring I got a chance to watch a few Jr vball games in Europe. There was a player who started at OH and L in 2 consecutive games and it wasn’t due to another player injury or something like that. The real specialization starts from 16 but even after that changes happen quite often. Transition is not that difficult because players have all the skills they need, it’s more a matter of polishing.

Some other details about European club system:
Normally kids start playing at 10-11 but if a younger kid knocks on the door they won’t send him/her back home. No competitive games until 12. Season from September to June. Important one: club fees are somewhere in the range of what one would pay in the US to play in a rec league. Any single JVB has a “mother” pro club so they take all charges like uniforms, travel, lodging expenses, entry fees, etc. Reason is Jr. VBC’s are the fresh blood stream for all pro clubs. At the very beginning coaches form groups of 20 to 25 kids and in some years some clubs may have even 2 of those. This is so-called “prep” year. Kids play some free ball, learn the rules, a few generic volleyball skills, etc. During that year coaches are trying to foresee who is going to grow up (parent’s height), who has potential and so on. Sometimes they (coaches) go and visit schools where they look for tall kids and ask them to come and join. Actually the 2nd year is when the real vball starts. The groups are down to 15-16 but they never cut them below that number because kids tend to change their minds easily and sometimes quit. Competitions at these age groups are something like the Power Leagues here e.g. no eliminations except for the nationals. That gives coaches opportunity to play all kids and see them in a real game situation. Playing time is not equally distributed but because there is no money involved there’re no hard feelings (parents complaints, etc). In some countries there are HS schools, which have agreement with certain clubs (the big ones) to provide special “floating” schedule for student-athletes so they can practice twice a day (normally takes place from 16 and over). Age groups from 16 practice 5 days a week as Min and if they have game during the weekend it makes them 6.

At the end I would like to add that in most European countries vball is tied with bbal for 2nd best sport after soccer, which is also a factor.

[I Luv Danny R]

V-ball is life