Why Kerry was wrong

[goGopherBill]

The Us economy grew faster than expected for the final quarter or 04 the dept. of commerce reported.

It revised figures that show the gross domestic product grew by 3.8 % the last 3 months of 04.

Thats only 22.5 % better than it was expected...
That means the economy grew by 4.4 % last year ..best since 1999.

The strong growth aided by a SMALLER than expected trade deficit could lead to faster job growth.

mmm Pioneer Press ,,,
from the washington Bureau..

So Kerry hoped to be like Clinton? elected after a Republican turned the economy around so he could get the glory?

They camplained ...(new word) on the premise that every thing was going down hill...the war effort was being lost...and that the poor were getteing hosed...

if the economy recovers ...and it shows it might..
and the Iraq situation get better..and it might..

and more jobs are created ...housing remains affordable...and the taxes stay low....

it would mean that the liberals and democrats were WRONG about everything....
and Hillary would lose along with the rest of the democrats and Hollywood faithfull...

When we hear that Bush's SS program wouldnt work...my friends failed to show they took only gloom and doom scenarios presented by Democrats...they didnt show traditional returns or the possibilities that the market might grow like Bush did.

With moral issues...did they mention the Pima Indian studies...
Where the Pima Indians on this side of the border with Mexico...have a 50 % higher achohol abuse..drug use and suicide rate?
Did they mention the idea that they have a 50 % higher rate of diabetes..that can ONLY be explained by Cultural influences not genetics.

I wonder if they showed a traditional family study with the same group what the results might be...

The Democrats are wrong....and they lost because of it ..

Not because the President was wrong ..but because he was right

[Deleted]

Put down the crack pipe, Bill...

[Gorf]

Did you actually read the Bureau of Economic Analysis report or just the snippets from the newspaper Bill?

The 4th quarter re-estimate of 3.8% increase was indeed a 0.7% increase from the early 4th quarter estimates, however, it was still a decrease from the 3rd quarter's 4.0% increase.

As for a 4.4% increase for the 2004 is pretty nice, does it make up for the national debt increasing by over 8% over the same time frame, and reaching a level of over 70% of the GDP though?

At the rate GWB's administration and the Republican lead congress is increasing the national debt it is on target to become 100% of the GDP by the time GWB's second term in office is completed or shortly thereafter.


The trade deficit increased overall, saying it was a "SMALLER" increase than expected is a rather pitiful way of coloring a trade deficit that was expected to be one of the highest ever for our country.

Prices increased 2.8% for the 4th quarter, up from a 1.9% increase the previous quarter.



Bush I turned the economey around?

OMG, he had some of the lowest GDP growth rates in the past 20-30 years and for his entire term as president increased the national debt by nearly 3 times as much as he increased the GDP.


It isn't hard to have a "lower than expected" trade dceficit when everyone was expecting one of the highest trade deficits of all time.


In terms of jobs, GWB still has pretty much one of the worst overall performances of any president in our history. Including the single worst recovery form a recesion in our country's history.


Bill, when they say GWB's social security reform won't work it is because it won't unless he actually puts something into his reform package other than private accounts.

You look at only your own private account, without taking into account the billions of dollars that the country will have to borrow to make up for the money that will be removed from the social security funds by the private accounts, the cost of hiring fund managers to run the private accounts, and the government's general overhead for making the adjustment to move to using private accounts.

Heck, even GWB hmself admitted that the private accounts won't be a fix to the problems with social security. That's why he's suddenly talking about the possibility of changing the increase in social security benefits from wage indexing to price indexing - a reform that has been advocated by independents for years.

Private accounts in and of themselves might in the long term be useful for some individuals but they have no practical positive influence on the issues the president and his cronies are presenting in their own doom and gloom scenarious for social security "bankruptcy".


Have you seen any studies on indians in your own state Bill? Where is your morality involving them and their problems?

[goGopherBill]

The Pima Indian study is better because it takes 1 culure ,divides it into 2 parts and the results demonstrate what cultural influences can have...

That shows that cultural influences like alcohol,drugs,and eating habits do play a role..not just genetics.
Add liberal pooperganda and I bet that would influence them too..
Minnesota Indians are not that dissimilar to whites...greedy..complaining...and doing little other than taking casino money to better their lives and that of other Indians.

Social Security was RETIREMENT insurance or didnt you read that part...you were supposed to go and get a job...and save for your future.
IT was NEVER intended to be the whole deal...and just like our indians we want it paid for without a risk...or paying the full share on what we need.

Perhaps a better plan floated about shows that every new born should get $2,000 at birth and $2,000 a year for 18 years then at 70 we could all be millionares.

Sounds great right...but the government givith and TAKETH away...just like SS....and when we reach 70 they would say its not fair..or the monies gone .

Notice that the opposition claims the figures were down compared to the precedeing quarter...so what...nothing increases 5 % unless you factor the inflation under Carter? its the final result that matters and the economy is doing better..despite their doom and gloom...
or check out Europe and move there if you want NO growth and no jobs.

What about Iraq and democracy spreading to other countries...just as President Bush predicted.
Something our liberal European allies would never concede...even if it worked under a certain Republican President from California...

[Deleted]

Puff the Magic Dragon
Lived by the sea...

[Deleted]

I'm not sure I want to know, but what exactly is the point you are trying to make with regard to the Pima Indians?

[FreeBall]

(R)uffda! said:

I'm not sure I want to know, but what exactly is the point you are trying to make with regard to the Pima Indians?

As I try to connect the dots in Bill's tangenital typing eruption, I think he might be saying that the Pima Indians are why Kerrey lost the election. ;D

[Gorf]

goGopherBill said:

The Pima Indian study is better because it takes 1 culure ,divides it into 2 parts and the results demonstrate what cultural influences can have...

That shows that cultural influences like alcohol,drugs,and eating habits do play a role..not just genetics.

ROFL!

So now your study shows cultural influences in addition to genetics rather than instead of genetics in your first post.

Add liberal pooperganda and I bet that would influence them too..
Minnesota Indians are not that dissimilar to whites...greedy..complaining...and doing little other than taking casino money to better their lives and that of other Indians.

Your one race one religion one political view "conservative" agenda is showing.

Social Security was RETIREMENT insurance or didnt you read that part...you were supposed to go and get a job...and save for your future.

IT was NEVER intended to be the whole deal...and just like our indians we want it paid for without a risk...or paying the full share on what we need.

What propaganda world are you living in?

The average amount that most people get from social security would put them below the poverty level, especially in the world of today where we've had a net loss in jobs over the past 4-5 years and the relatively few jobs that have been created having lower average wages.

Perhaps a better plan floated about shows that every new born should get $2,000 at birth and $2,000 a year for 18 years then at 70 we could all be millionares.

Let's see 40,000 for everyone is going to make them millionairs your math is astounding.

FWIW: Did you know that less than half of those receiving social security benefits are retirees?

How does your wonderful plan work for those disabled on the job before reaching retirement age, or those that are death benefit beneficiaries?

Did you know that the average 20 year old has a 3 in 10 chance of becoming permanently disabled and a 1 in 6 change of dying while leaving behind young children before they've reached retirement age?

How does your "I worked hard for what I got so they can d*mn well do the same thing" philosophy work for people like that?

Are you going to say "Get a job you lazy disabled commie socialist liberal weanie!"?

Are you going to say "You're 5 years old get off your lazy behind and get a job and stop living off of everyone else's hard labor!"?

Sounds great right...but the government givith and TAKETH away...just like SS....and when we reach 70 they would say its not fair..or the monies gone .

I take it you really haven't read anything but the "conservative" rhetoric about social security that's being spewed about by GWB's paid mouthpieces?

Even if social security is not changed at all over the next 75 years (which is far longer than GWB's claims of bankruptcy) the existing system would still be able to pay for at least 70% of the benefits required at that time without any borrowing by the government,

That doesn't equate to the money being gone.

The adjustments required by either lessening the rate at which benefits increase over time, increase SS tax rates, or a combination of both would be fairly minor in order to allow the system to be self sustaining indefinitely.

Notice that the opposition claims the figures were down compared to the precedeing quarter...so what...nothing increases 5 % unless you factor the inflation under Carter? its the final result that matters and the economy is doing better..despite their doom and gloom...

I notice you still haven't bothered to read the actual report.

The only figure I ("the opposition" said was down compared to the previous quarter was the GDP growth rate.

FWIW: The 2nd - 4th quarters were all lower than the 1st quarter as well. The only reason the average for the year was above 4% was becase the 1st quarter was above 4% the other 3 quarters were 4% or less.

I notice you don't comment on the other negative factors I mentioned such as the price increase rate.

The economy is doing better compare to what though Bill?

Passing off trillions of dollars in debt to our grandchildren and beyond is a wonderful way of solvingthe problems of today.

You "conservatives" claim to hate welfare, social security, school spending, and a plethora of other government spending items (except of course the military which gets regular increases while already being by far the largest expense of our government) yet you love the idea of using the largest for of "socialist benefit" possible in passing off your spending spree to those that aren't even born yet.

The $2 trillion GWB has already added to the national debt, combined with the $3+ trillion he's going to add to it before his 2nd term is over if invested at the wonderful rates you claim will be there for your private social security account would pay for the impending "social security bankruptcy" and put a nice dent in many of the other "problems" you like to talk about.


BTW: What were the inflation rates under Carter?

Care to do some actual research on your own?

I know inflation rates under Reagan were higher than they were under Clinton, and the inflation rates under Bush II were worse than they were under Reagan.

or check out Europe and move there if you want NO growth and no jobs.

More fairy tails?

Have you noticed the US dollar's declining value against the Euro and pretty much every other currency around the world?

What about Iraq and democracy spreading to other countries...just as President Bush predicted.
Something our liberal European allies would never concede...even if it worked under a certain Republican President from California...

Is there a democracy in Iraq?

I haven't seen it yet.

I heard about an election, but no government is in place yet from what I've heard.

Conditions in Iraq are still worsening, insurgency levels are still increasing.

So speaking of moving, how about you move to Iraq if you think its so great over there?

[goGopherBill]

lets see ...so much to respond to...

The pima indian study is germaine...it shows that culutural influences play a major role in determining how that society grows...
Teach liberal crud to our kids and you get ..liberal crud
The Supreme court wants to do away with public displays of the 10 commandments....
why? because it doesnt mesh with the new liberal life styles....?

Even though a copy hangs in THEIR Chamber and
on 3 sides of the Jefferson mememorial ..he who proclaimed seperation of church ..and state.

Gorfask how 40,000 becomes a million..its called acrued interest...and it works..but instead I am just a crack smokin idiot.

In debate you attack what one says ..not why or who says it.

I posted positive information ..positive for Bush..and for you and I...again all I got was how poor compared to Clinton it is...Clinton is not responsible for the economy..its the Americans who work and invest...

Just as Bush cannot be held totally responsible for job figures......do you mention the 10 million illegals working here reporting no taxes..no SS and making our education system a mess...

Its not all Bush and democrats need to realise they are responsible for some of what happens...good as well as the bad.

Democracy is spreading ...see Iraq..Afganistan...and now Lebanon...if it continues we will be safer..just as Reagan spoke about the soviet union...

The democrats always speak of how great their presidents and policies are...here s some proof of stuff they oppossed that worked.

Instead of giving the man a chance...its been non stop attack...thats not the way it used to be...but new democratic family values.

only month till spring volleyball...

[Deleted]

goGopherBill said:

lets see ...so much to respond to...

The pima indian study is germaine...it shows that culutural influences play a major role in determining how that society grows...
Teach liberal crud to our kids and you get ..liberal crud

What makes you think the Pima Indians were taught liberal crud? Maybe it was conservative crud? Or just plain ol' American crud?

You have no point. That's your problem.

The Supreme court wants to do away with public displays of the 10 commandments....
why? because it doesnt mesh with the new liberal life styles....?

No. Try separation of Church and State. Real liberal, that.

And the Supreme Court wants this? Since when?

Even though a copy hangs in THEIR Chamber and
on 3 sides of the Jefferson mememorial ..he who proclaimed seperation of church ..and state.

Huh?

Gorfask how 40,000 becomes a million..its called acrued interest...and it works..but instead I am just a crack smokin idiot.

$40,000 doesn't become $1,000,000 with normal accumulated interest. That's where the crack comes in.

In debate you attack what one says ..not why or who says it.

If it's non-stop gibberish, you begin to take a look at the source of the gibberish.

I posted positive information ..positive for Bush..and for you and I...again all I got was how poor compared to Clinton it is...Clinton is not responsible for the economy..its the Americans who work and invest...

Just as Bush cannot be held totally responsible for job figures......do you mention the 10 million illegals working here reporting no taxes..no SS and making our education system a mess...

Its not all Bush and democrats need to realise they are responsible for some of what happens...good as well as the bad.

Democracy is spreading ...see Iraq..Afganistan...and now Lebanon...if it continues we will be safer..just as Reagan spoke about the soviet union...

The democrats always speak of how great their presidents and policies are...here s some proof of stuff they oppossed that worked.

Instead of giving the man a chance...its been non stop attack...thats not the way it used to be...but new democratic family values.

only month till spring volleyball...

What a load of crap. Clinton -- who is no hero of mine -- withstood 100 times the attacks your beloved W has. YOU have the double-standard, Bill. Not us. And what's worse, you can't even see all the awful things W has done and is doing.

You keep talking about lemmings. I suggest you take a good hard look in the mirror.

Democracy is spreading?! Hell, it's not even spreading in America!

Your beloved values promoted by W: greed, selfishness, racism, unprovoked war, pollution...shall I go on?

[Gorf]

goGopherBill said:

The pima indian study is germaine...it shows that culutural influences play a major role in determining how that society grows...

ummmm..

I'm just not sure how it became a topic of conversation other than you taking another weird segue.

Did anyone here besides you make attacks on indians?

Teach liberal crud to our kids and you get ..liberal crud

The Supreme court wants to do away with public displays of the 10 commandments....
why? because it doesnt mesh with the new liberal life styles....?

Even though a copy hangs in THEIR Chamber and
on 3 sides of the Jefferson mememorial ..he who proclaimed seperation of church ..and state.

I've heard of that separation of church and state thing, isn't that what the current "conservatives" of the country appear to want to do away with for some reason?

Gorfask how 40,000 becomes a million..its called acrued interest...and it works..but instead I am just a crack smokin idiot.

Accrued interest doesn't transform 40,000 into "millions" Bill.

At least not with a conservative style investment that you've been advocating for the private accounts.

$2,000 at bith combined with $2,000 each year for the next 18 years at an interest rate of 5% comes to $63,891.25.

That $63,891.25 compounded over the next 50 years at a continued 5% comes to $732,666.51.

That's not millions, it isn't even $1 million.


In addition you chose to ignore my informaiton that over 50% of the people receiving social security benefits are not retirees. So the amounts they would earn from their $40,000 would be even less, in some cases significantly less.

In debate you attack what one says ..not why or who says it.

I've attacked you?

Hmmmm..

You lambaste all "liberals" and Democrats, indisciminately yet when the same thing is done in reverse it is a personal attack on you?

I posted positive information ..positive for Bush..and for you and I...again all I got was how poor compared to Clinton it is...Clinton is not responsible for the economy..its the Americans who work and invest...

What was the title of this thread again?

Just as Bush cannot be held totally responsible for job figures......do you mention the 10 million illegals working here reporting no taxes..no SS and making our education system a mess...

It funny that you want to give GWB credit when something positive happens, even if he didn't even try to do anything related to achieving that effect.

Then turn around and aren't willing to give him the same level of credit when something he actually did make policy decisions for goes wrong.

He cut taxes (primarily for the rich) because he wanted to give back "the budgetary surplus to the people". His tax cut gave the "surplus" to the rich that make up only a relatively few percent of the people and he didn't bother to mention that there really wasn't a surplus.

The "surplus" he referred to was a BUDGETARY surplus not an actual surplus. Even in Clinton's last year in office when there was a $200+ trillion budgetary surplus it wasn't enough to completely pay off that year's interest on the national debt. The national debt still increased by $18 billion.

Then GWB cut taxes again in what he called an "economic stimulus" plan. A plan that he and his backers promised would create an excess of 300,000 jobs per month. It would have been great if it had worked. Instead though, more than 2 years after that tax cut only 2 months out of more than 24 months have at least 300,000 jobs been created. Several months actually showed losses in jobs and others were 100,000 to 200,000 jobs below his promised levels.

The recession ended more than 3 years ago and the GWB apologists still want to cry for him in saying he had to deal with a terrible recession. Every other recession that has happened in this country has had a quicker recovery than what has happened in the GWB era.


You complain about making comparisons between GWB's performance and Clinton's performance yet you do it quite frequently in reverse.

As for inflation during Cater's administration, I bet you (and others) didn't complain about your stock investments in those years.


Here's a nice quotation for you since you love GWB's deficit level spending that he decided to take from president Reagan and expand upon:

"The fact is, we'll never build a lasting economic recovery by going deeper into debt at a faster rate than we ever have before. It took this nation 166 years until the middle of World War II to finally accumulate a debt of $95 billion. It took this administration just the last 12 months to add $95 billion to the debt. And this administration has run up almost one-fourth of the total national debt in just these short 19 months."

I wonder who said that?

Governor Reagan of California when he was running against President Ford for the Republican nomination in the 1976 election.

Its not all Bush and democrats need to realise they are responsible for some of what happens...good as well as the bad.

Well, as you've been happy to say before the Republicans are in charge of the white house, congress, and the judicial system.

You bought em with your vote, so I guess you need to "get over it" when it comes to how poorly they've been doing their jobs.

Democracy is spreading ...see Iraq..Afganistan...and now Lebanon...if it continues we will be safer..just as Reagan spoke about the soviet union...

What wonderful things has the democracy in Afghanistan done for the people of that country?

They appear to be in conditions as bad as they've ever been in now.


There is no democracy in Iraq yet, there was a vote, the new government has not been set up. Meanwhile, insurgency continues to escalate. The bombing yesterday that killed a minimum of 130 people and their expecting it to end up being as much as twice that many was the single worst suicide bombing since GWB declared victory in Iraq.


Are you giving GWB credit for the changes in Lebanon now?

The democrats always speak of how great their presidents and policies are...here s some proof of stuff they oppossed that worked.

Instead of giving the man a chance...its been non stop attack...thats not the way it used to be...but new democratic family values.

Haven't the Republicans always attacked non-stop?

How many millions of dollars and how much time did they waste on Clinton's affair with Monica?

How much time and effort did they spend opposing numerous of the initiatives that Clinton proposed?

They accuse him of not doing enough in the war on terror in retrospect, however, they fought him tooth and nail when he tried doing anything against it while he was president. He actually did significantly increase funding for fighting terror. Republicans were still in charge of congress back then which is something GWB doesn't have to deal with at all.

only month till spring volleyball...

Unlike volleyball, policatal debates are not seasonal!

[Barefoot In Kailua]

I don't care why Kerry was wrong, just knowing he was wrong is good enough for me. ;D


www.netdogg.com/captraymo/bush/woohoo.gif [/img]

[Gorf]

www.allhatnocattle.net/bush_just_dessert.jpg
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[goGopherBill]

Gorf...run your figures and use the rate of return the stock market has given over the last 50 years..

Of course the democrats dont want Americans to know the figure is like 7%
In fact go to I bonds on your search and use their calculator to see what you might get for your money...

So Bush doesnt invade Iraq...
or Afganistan...

I think we would still be dealing with those leaders denying UN weapons teams ..just as North Korea and Iran are doing right now.

All those on SS right now without being retired is most of the problem..the program was not designed or built for that...Many abuses...just like those on welfare...

Without Reagan the wall still stands..and without Bush democracy doesnt spread.
We dig in ..just like the French and let our enemies surround us.

Kerry was wrong about everything...and you will see my sheepish friends...Baa

Power Block..side out

[Deleted]

Check that. You were in the net. As a matter of fact, we're going to have to call the paramedics to cut you out of the net.

Point Gorf!