New Medicare Cards offer few discounts...

[goGopherBill]

Gorf..

Do we ever stay completely on target?

Instead of chasing all your anti republican threads I try and debate on one or 2 switching when it goes too complex...
Your numbers for Population are taken from what sourse?

In any case I would state that if true the only population gained in those states might be near major cities if we are going along with that farming and rural populations are shifting.

Whats germaine isnt totaly true...welfare is about shifting populations..race demographics and to some extent sexual preferences....
Power and political offiliations follow...
So here is some more logic...

42% of Americans believe adultery to be morally acceptable...Remember family values...

From 1970-1990 teen sexual activity and pregnancy increased 400% YEP my teenage years,

Nearly 1 million teens become pregnant each year,
40% end in Abortion..so it does seem to beyond cases of rape,incest or a mothers health...

Many US schools are teaching students that homosexual lifestyle is normal..a traditional family value?
or what happened to just teaching Reading ..writing ..math..history...

The last were in a printed article in todays Star from a church group...I dont belong to a church or go ...often

from todays Pioneer press ...Page 6a
Rate freeze decried for child-care aid

for welfare parents, The governors proposal would save the state 70 million over the next 2 years
the program anticipates 700 families dropping out of the child-care program(700 hundred families?) the program was froze because it was raising at 5% per year and paid more than current market showed.
gee amagine that...families getting free child-care..reimbersed at several time the rates set in market.

so much for welfare just for the few single sick.unemployable..If welfare is in such a upheaveal...medicare and SS fraud everywhere..who's gonna save us..Hillary?

[itsallaboutme]

Many US schools are teaching students that homosexual lifestyle is normal..a traditional family value?

What schools are these???

[Gorf]

goGopherBill said:

Do we ever stay completely on target?

We?

Your numbers for Population are taken from what sourse?

The US Census Bureau.

I hope that isn't too much of a "liberal media" source for you.

In any case I would state that if true the only population gained in those states might be near major cities if we are going along with that farming and rural populations are shifting.

You could actually try to search for your numbers rather than guessing much of the time.

It didn't take me very long to find the information on the census bureau site to refute your claim that population was heavily declining in Wisconsin, Illinois and Indiana.

Whats germaine isnt totaly true...welfare is about shifting populations..race demographics and to some extent sexual preferences....
Power and political offiliations follow...
So here is some more logic...

AFAIK people can only qualify for receiving welfare if they're earning income below the poverty level.

42% of Americans believe adultery to be morally acceptable...Remember family values...

From 1970-1990 teen sexual activity and pregnancy increased 400% YEP my teenage years,

Nearly 1 million teens become pregnant each year,
40% end in Abortion..so it does seem to beyond cases of rape,incest or a mothers health...

Abortion rates in the US have never reached the 40% level.

The highest reported levels were during the early Reagan years and late Carter years:

Year: Annual Rate; Normalized per 1000 pregnancies
1979: 30.0%; 28.8%
1980: 30.1%; 29.3%
1981: 30.3%; 29.3%
1982: 30.0%; 28.8%
1983: 30.2%; 28.5%
1984: 30.1%; 28.1%

1988: 28.9%; 27.3% (end of Reagan presidency)

1992: 27.3%; 25.5% (end of Bush I presidency)

2000: 24.4%; 21.0% (last full reported year)


The normalized rate is what is generally considered to be the accepted measurement since it removes anomalies from some years such as various states not reporting abortion data which can make those years look artificially low.

Some preliminary data for the past few years have shown that abortion rates have started to rise again under Bush II, however, many individual states continue to report decreases so it will probably be a while until all data is collected, collated, and compiled for years after 2000.

The numbers are primarily from the "Alan Guttmacher Institute" which is referenced from the US Census Bureau since the Census Bureau actually doesn't report abortion statistics.

Many US schools are teaching students that homosexual lifestyle is normal..a traditional family value?
or what happened to just teaching Reading ..writing ..math..history...

Schools are teaching is as being normal, or being acceptable?

Teaching it as being normal would seem to indicate that you're saying schools are telling students that a homosexual lifestyle is the expected lifestyle.

I would think most "reasonable" people would like schools teaching students to be tolerant of differences in other people rather than teaching them intolerance or even worse - hatred of those that aren't exactly the same as themselves.

FWIW: I'm pretty sure they still teach reading, writing, arithmatic, and many other subjects in our public schools these days.

Are you saying you prefer to limit the education of students in schools?

If so, isn't that rather opposed to your stated philosophy of working to earn more so you can stay off of welfare?

Education is probably the best method of increasing one's ability to earn a better living.

The last were in a printed article in todays Star from a church group...I dont belong to a church or go ...often

from todays Pioneer press ...Page 6a
Rate freeze decried for child-care aid

for welfare parents, The governors proposal would save the state 70 million over the next 2 years
the program anticipates 700 families dropping out of the child-care program(700 hundred families?) the program was froze because it was raising at 5% per year and paid more than current market showed.
gee amagine that...families getting free child-care..reimbersed at several time the rates set in market.

so much for welfare just for the few single sick.unemployable..If welfare is in such a upheaveal...medicare and SS fraud everywhere..who's gonna save us..Hillary?

I'm not sure where the paper gets its $70 million savings number since Governor Pawlenty and human services commissioner Kevin Goodno reported the reforms will result in no immediate savings to the state when they announced the proposal for the reforms.

They, of course hope it will result in long term savings to the state.

Short term it could actually cost the state more since the reforms require even existing welfare recipients to work with employment counselors in order to set up job search plans for each - meaning the government will have to pay for the time of those counselors now and in the future.

If enough people actually get jobs and get removed from welfare the cost of those counselors could be offset and hopefully results in savings to the state after that.

Frankly, I do agree with much of his latest welfare reform proposal in that is will hopefully result in a higher level of accountability during the process of people being placed on welfare.

There are some parts of it that can result in simply shifting the areas open to abuse from those that are actually on welfare to people that do things like provide housing to welfare recipients since money for things like that for some welfare recipients would end up going directly to the housing providers rather than to the welfware recipients then to the housing provider.

Time will tell whether any of the new changes have a positive impact.

[goGopherBill]

a couple of schools teaching liberal pooperganda

Washington..Wisconsin and Hawaii

Do you let anyone speak anything if its against Bush?
the whole argument that the democrats represent TRADITIONAL FAMILY values is a joke.

They want to redefine what sex is..what a family is ..and what religion is...bending and reshaping to fit democratic needs.

Thet want socialism...not capitolism

They want more taxes to support more people

They claim a Good government is key with good leaders...and their leaders are the only "good " ones

I say let the market place and hard work determine a mans worth ..not what any government gives me.

Let a mans worth be determined without knowing who he loves..worships and chooses to live with.

Expect more from all people ..not less..and quit whinning when you dont win.

Give a helping hand to those who need it...not the whole house..or village.

Tell me where the constitution says the state shall be responsible for all retirement..education and health
care.

I ask why you dont want a vote on roe vs. wade...?
Why you want a national rule on gay marrage...when most states are ruling against it?

And after losing ythe last 2 electuions you still claim a majority opinion.

[Gorf]

goGopherBill said:

a couple of schools teaching liberal pooperganda

Washington..Wisconsin and Hawaii

Does that mean that all of the other schools in the country are teaching coservative propaganda?

Do you let anyone speak anything if its against Bush?

You're referring to GWB or some other Bush?

the whole argument that the democrats represent TRADITIONAL FAMILY values is a joke.

Traditional base on your own definition?

They want to redefine what sex is..what a family is ..and what religion is...bending and reshaping to fit democratic needs.

As opposed to what is more and more showing up as the "conservative view" that there is only one way for everything and it is their way and everything else is evil?

Thet want socialism...not capitolism

Socialism: "Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy."

That sounds more like our Republican "conservative" controlled government doesn't it?

They want more taxes to support more people

Actually, they simply want the taxation level to support the expenses of the government, while the Republicans want to lower taxes primarily for the rich, increase the expenses of the government, borrow heavily to pay for their increased expenses and pass those costs onto their grandchildren and beyond.

They claim a Good government is key with good leaders...and their leaders are the only "good " ones

That appears to be the example prouddly set by the Republicans, surely you can't turn around and find it to be a bad idea on the part of the Democrats.

I say let the market place and hard work determine a mans worth ..not what any government gives me.

While supporting a Republican dominated government that has been unable to create a net positive increase in jobs over the past 4+ years and lost ground overall on jobs with the 2+ million additional jobs needed over that same time frame with the young workers becoming old enough to enter the job market in excess of those retiring.

An unemployment rate that is still more than a full percentage point higher than what it was when GWB entered office and stays where its at because millions of people have simply given up on trying to find jobs in a stagnant (at best) job market and after a relative handful of weeks suddenly magically no longer get counted as being unemployed even though they still don't have jobs.

Let a mans worth be determined without knowing who he loves..worships and chooses to live with.

As long as the people "he" chooses to live with aren't gay and want to get married?

Expect more from all people ..not less..and quit whinning when you dont win.

Meaning you prefer the ostrich approach to living where anyone that happens to encounter misfortune ought to shut up because you don't want to hear about their problems?

Give a helping hand to those who need it...not the whole house..or village.

Do you flip a coin to decide on who does and doesn't get your help when an entire house and village "needs it"?

Tell me where the constitution says the state shall be responsible for all retirement..education and health
care.

I think its right there with the 2nd amendmant that actually doesn't say you have the right to bear arms.

I'll get back to you on that though.

I ask why you dont want a vote on roe vs. wade...?

Wasn't it already voted on, and denied in appelate court as well?

Do you want it to be like an infinite game volleyball match where it isn't a voted correctly until the vote goes your way?

Aren't you "conservatives" the ones that keep telling the "liberals" that Bush II won and they ought to "get over it"?

It sounds like more standard "conservative" rhetoric where they hate government interference in the lives of our citizens of our country but only as long as that interference has an impact on their own lives.

Have I mentioned enough times that abortion rates are at all time lows since the passing of Roe v. Wade?

They rose toward the end of Carter's administration, continued to raise at the beginning of Reagan's administration, started dropping toward the end of Reagan's administration, raised and lowerd (but overall lowered) during the Bush I administration, lowered every year during Clinton's administration to all time low levels by the time Bush II took office.

No full year (for all states) reports on the numbers have been released for the levels during Bush II's administration.

Why you want a national rule on gay marrage...when most states are ruling against it?

The funny thing about all of this is that there is already since 1996 (the defense of marriage act) a federal law against gay marriage yet that isn't enough for the "conservatives" since it allows states to override it so they want a change to the constitution.

There are 11 states that have created new laws / amendments banning gay marriage.

Those laws / amendments have been overturned in 1 of those states, appear to be likely to be overturned in at least 3 more, and have law suits being brought against them in others of those 11 states.

In 3 of the staets the new laws / amendments refer only to gay marriages but don't deny civil unions for gays - basically civil unions with rights similar to those of heterosexual couples in marriages is "all" that the gays are trying to obtain.

Its all just another sign of the control issues needed by the "conservatives" that claim to hate government interference.


An ironic thing about this issue is that younger people appear to be far more in favor of allowing gay marriages so if that holds up any gains toward banning gay marriages now by the "old fart conservatives" will be overturned in the future.

And after losing ythe last 2 electuions you still claim a majority opinion.

I've not heard this one.

I've heard you claim it to be the other way but still blame everything on the impact of the power of "liberal media" that apparently doesn't even have enough power to sway enough people to their side to win the presidential elections.

[Deleted]

goGopherBill said:

I say let the market place and hard work determine a mans worth ..not what any government gives me.

Right. Because this works sooooo well. All those lazy folks down at the Wal-Mart making a little over minimum wage with NO benefits get what they deserve so that CEOs all over the country and rake in their millions.