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Post by Gorf on Feb 15, 2005 23:22:51 GMT -5
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Post by goGopherBill on Feb 22, 2005 16:51:25 GMT -5
What about those liberals living in California?
Plastic surgery ..breast reduction..implants..and facelifts along with most cosmetic surgeries are permited to use Medicare?
A National standard needs to be in place...for Medicare...so stuff like this STOPS...along with a
National welfare plan so states like Minnesota dont use 18% higher benifits to attract more future democratic voters,or why do all the Hmong settle here?
A National education plan...everyone expects equal rights and it starts with equal education.
California spends 50 BILLION a year on education without any performance reviews...collects 10 million a year from teachers in dues so they can control the legislative process. How is that state budget working out...how bout your education?
California spent 1 BILLION for prison Medical cost including breast reduction and trans gender surgery...For MEN
11 Million in Food stamps for ILLEGAL aliens....
750 MILLION to temp.House illegal aliens before deportation...
A New National border protection agenda needs to be done...Security is a joke.
Traditional conservatives would stop it...liberals would say we need to increase it.
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Post by Gorf on Feb 22, 2005 21:36:28 GMT -5
Did you take a wrong turn somewhere Bill?
How do any of those relate to GWB's pushing through the (to this point mostly) useless medicare prescription "discount" cards that he's now admitted will cause our government to borrow up to another $1.2 trillion?
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Post by goGopherBill on Feb 23, 2005 8:20:10 GMT -5
There has to be a complete overhaul of medicare which is more broke than SS.
Neither party will admit it..I offered a start, limit insane
Medicare spending..limit the program by making it a National plan..so the states and politicans could keep spending in check....making no promises to recepients to lure anybody to a specific city...state ..or political party.
I even used why Minnesotas economy is broke...The state used a 18% wefare rate ..higher than any nearby states to lure people here. The Solmolians and Hmong are not from cold ,urban..or non farming culture yet they are here because of the easy money...Welfare penalises you 10% if you don t look for work....at 18% rate above Indiana..Illinois or Wisconsin you can see why we have more who move into a cold miserable state...to collect more money minus the penalty than they would get at home ...without looking for a job.
Only the core of the TWIN cities and Duluth voted democrat...no wonder...its like an lifeline that supports them.. If every state had the same Welfare benifits...the politicans couldnt sweaten the deal to help lure future voters...We all talk about equality so lets do it..with intitlements also.
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Post by itsallaboutme on Feb 23, 2005 8:29:38 GMT -5
This Program was doomed from the start. First the Administration purposely LIED about the cost of the program when it was sent to congress. It barely passed & if the real figures would have been brought forth it would not have passed.
The minimum gauranteed profits for the drug makers too (over $100 billion) was also a joke. But typical of Bush to make sure that big guys make out like bandits while raiding the cookie jar. We've seen this at every turn from the administration.
Gorf, you must understand that those who support Bush do not listen nor respond to the facts & failures of this Administration. They only post some off the wall comments that are unrelated to your post or say "Bill Clinton" did this or that. They support him no matter what regardless of how awful he is. Truly , Worst President EVER!
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Post by goGopherBill on Feb 23, 2005 8:34:33 GMT -5
And your Minority report uses a few states..and compare cost of drugs to those in Canada....
Why not use every state... or do those states used only support the result of the study?
Do we live in Canada?....No..check out car and truck prices...Canadians pay several thousand(10,000) less for their vehicles... where is the up roar from American consumers over that...?
Canada consumers pay double the highest tax for tobacco..and booze...along with other taxes and fees..so maybe they can afford to keep drugs lower...?
This study only looks at the spending end of the program ..not the overall Canadian screwed up health care system.
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Post by goGopherBill on Feb 23, 2005 8:46:36 GMT -5
I guess since " Bill" lied and doesnt know what sex is or what telling the truth is all about that the democrats must feel everything the Republicans do is a lie also.
It passed with bi partisan majority..so congress and democrats had their chance...
I do agree we need to have a plan to limit drug companies from rising prices...
I wonder...where was the democratic out cry when they wanted /forced everyone to have car insurance and insurance prices skyrocketed..
..
Or when democrats want free health care for everyone...and the health care went through the roof...
Or when democrats wanted free and better education system..what prevented education cost from skyrocketing in the last 10 years.
Or do you only point this out when a Republican President or majority wants something Democrats dont?
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Post by Gorf on Feb 23, 2005 9:00:14 GMT -5
There has to be a complete overhaul of medicare which is more broke than SS. Neither party will admit it..I offered a start, limit insane Medicare spending..limit the program by making it a National plan..so the states and politicans could keep spending in check....making no promises to recepients to lure anybody to a specific city...state ..or political party. I even used why Minnesotas economy is broke...The state used a 18% wefare rate ..higher than any nearby states to lure people here. The Solmolians and Hmong are not from cold ,urban..or non farming culture yet they are here because of the easy money...Welfare penalises you 10% if you don t look for work....at 18% rate above Indiana..Illinois or Wisconsin you can see why we have more who move into a cold miserable state...to collect more money minus the penalty than they would get at home ...without looking for a job. Only the core of the TWIN cities and Duluth voted democrat...no wonder...its like an lifeline that supports them.. If every state had the same Welfare benifits...the politicans couldnt sweaten the deal to help lure future voters...We all talk about equality so lets do it..with intitlements also. The first step in welfare reform would be to repeal GWB's subscription cards. After that, you need to get your information from a source that doesn't spew old stereotypes: From the Minnesota Department of Human Resources: 1. There has been a more than 30% decrease in the number of people on Welfare in Minnesota since 1994. 2. 48 percent of participants are white, 32 percent are black, 8 percent are American Indian, 6 percent are Asian and 6 percent are Hispanic. 3. A total of $69 million was spent on welfare assistance programs from the 2004 Minnesota budget. There was an additional $250 million spent from federal monies but $141 million of that was spent on food assistance programs. Compare that $69 million spent from the Minnesota budget with the $100 million that will likely be spent on a Gopher football stadium, the $200+ million that will be spent on each of the new Vikings and Twins stadiums. Amongst other rather odd expenditures by our state government. 4. Most recipients of general welfare assistance are single, unemployable adults without children. These include people who are elderly, ill, injured or otherwise incapacitated. |
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Post by Gorf on Feb 23, 2005 9:17:10 GMT -5
And your Minority report uses a few states..and compare cost of drugs to those in Canada.... Why not use every state... or do those states used only support the result of the study? Do we live in Canada?....No..check out car and truck prices...Canadians pay several thousand(10,000) less for their vehicles... where is the up roar from American consumers over that...? Canada consumers pay double the highest tax for tobacco..and booze...along with other taxes and fees..so maybe they can afford to keep drugs lower...? This study only looks at the spending end of the program ..not the overall Canadian screwed up health care system. The total income tax rate for Canadians between their federal and provincial (ie, state level for us) can exceed 70%. Would you prefer to be taxed like that? Did you read the report in the link I placed in the base post? "CONCLUSION This analysis compares discounted prices and prices currently available to Medicare beneficiaries with the prices that will be available with the new Medicare discount drug cards. It finds that the prices with the cards are far higher than discounted prices, such as those available in Canada or via the Federal Supply Schedule. And it finds that Medicare beneficiaries already have access to the same prices offered by the discount drug cards, through outlets such as Drugstore.com and Costco.com. Thus, the new Medicare discount drug cards appear to offer few advantages." This was the result of a study by / for the US house of representatives. Hence, another GWB / neocon "conservative" initiative does pretty much nothing but add another $1+ trillion to the national debt. |
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Post by goGopherBill on Feb 23, 2005 9:45:33 GMT -5
Gorf..
It was a study done by democrats /..done to support their agenda...if it was a non partisan study done with both parties watching what data was mined and what was left off...then I might agree.
I have seen both republican polls and democrat polls and studies "adjusted" so that the truth is often omitted ...
I trust nada...
No I dont want to be like Canada or I would live there..We are much closer than most of the U.S population.
32% of welfare is black ..supports my conclusions..they represent less than 3% of our population.The fact that all minorities on welfare are beyond their state % escapes your conclusons.
Just as a good guy with numbers can make them say anything..go back to the early 70's and see how many (minorities)were on welfare here...
Your Minnesota data is also done to support Democrats... Check out the latest figures of who is moving into the state now and why?
Since 1994 this state economy has BOOMED...no one who wants to work should have had trouble. So why did so many move from Indiana..Illinois or other states?
My state senator is sponsering a bill that would require new welfare people to show where they moved from and why...
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Post by Gorf on Feb 23, 2005 10:09:12 GMT -5
Gorf.. It was a study done by democrats /..done to support their agenda...if it was a non partisan study done with both parties watching what data was mined and what was left off...then I might agree. ROFL. You can get pricing on drugs and prescriptions all on your own Bill. You'll find the same pricing results. Check out the non-partisan reports at other places like "factcheck.org". They largely report the exact same information regarding the effectiveness of the medicare prescription cards. Obviously you trust "nada", that's apparently why you keep throwing out numbers, ideas, and rhetoric from decades ago.  According to the 2003 Minnesota census data blacks represented 12.3% of the population. Actually, the 12.3% was the national number on the census data, Minnesota's is 3.5%. Bill, my minnesota data was reported by your precuious republican governor. d'oh... I guess you're expecting him to do a reverse Norm Coleman and turn into a democrat soon? Did you bother checking the reverse flow into those states as well? The populations in those states continue to grow, and they have their own welfare issues that is brought up in their own media reports. If the Minnesota welfare system is so great you'd think the welfare systems of the states you mention would be in great shape with all of the people using their systems moving here. Or just spew (I like that term since you used it in another thread a while back ) what you read in the news about "gangs moving to Minnesota to get on welfare"? The amount of money spent on welfare of purely Minnesota monies is negligible at total of $69 million. From a budget that was over $2 billion that's what, 0.03% of the overal state budget for 2004? |
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Post by goGopherBill on Feb 23, 2005 10:14:16 GMT -5
Gorf..
In order to reason better I re read some of the data supplied...
I noticed that the figures given for the NEW discount drug cards offered by Cosco and others seem better..
Is it after the presidents plan was inacted that these companies lowered their cost in order to compete?
Or was this always so? and if so ..how could any democrat ever have voted for it?
Much less republican...
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Post by Gorf on Feb 23, 2005 10:20:18 GMT -5
Perhaps there actually is something behind the "big business" of drug companies lobbying for the medicare prescription cards?
They were reportedly given a "mimimum profit level" on the cards.
How can drug manufacturers continue to get away with things like selling "Clariton" at prices of $15 - $20 per 10 pills when I can go to a place like Sam's Club and buy 180 pills of generic "Loratadine" for ~$12?
How can drug manufacturers continue to get away with making a non-active ingredient change to a drug like "Clariton" that is about to have its patent expire in order to create a new drug "Clarinex" that is in all respects other than inactive ingredients the same drug as "Clariton" in order to get a new patent, be able to get doctors to prescribe it, have drug companies not cover the cost of it since it is a new drug not "in their formulary" and get consumers that don't know any better to pay the full price of something like ~$60 - $90 for a bottle of 30 pills when they could again get the bottles of 180 generic "Loratadine" pills for ~$12?
As for the Democrats, who knows, there is often in congress the old "okay, since I know this is a losing cause I'll vote for it in hopes that some of you will vote for one of my upcoming bills / proposals".
Politics is all rather ridiculous to me at times in what gets passed and what gets ignored.
I mentioned in a thread a while ago that I thought it was crazy for our politicians to be spending so much time on debating social security reform that MIGHT reach a crisis level within another 50 years instead of things like true medicare / medicaid / welfarer reform that will far more likely reach a crisis level within the next 10 - 20 years.
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Post by goGopherBill on Feb 23, 2005 10:33:22 GMT -5
Gorf...
It must be frustrating for you...did you look up the current trend in immigration?
How bout studing the past..did you see how minorities were lured here by higher intitlements than the states they live in...re-verse flow...now thats funny ,those state are losing population at a fast rate..Minnesota is gaining at a higher rate.
I didnt ask WHO reported the welfare data?
I said it was Being USED TO SUPPORT DEMOCRATS by ..
drum roll..please
You.
The democrats ARE luring minorities here..non traditional population base in order to strenghten their shrinking voting block.
You didnt include health care cost..police and fire ptotection..housing cost and other subsidies.
As for foot ball stadiums at least we see a return of our money spent and often a surplus in 15 years.
By the way..how many minorites were here in 1960
1970 1980 1990 and 2000 I bet its a skyrocketing chart ..faster growth than any other state.
As unions lose members...the democrats need to import new voters... its not about the will of the people its about democrat values.If they were that good ..why are they losing ?
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Post by Gorf on Feb 23, 2005 10:52:23 GMT -5
Gorf... It must be frustrating for you...did you look up the current trent in immigration? How bout studing the past..did you see how minorities were lured here by higher intitlements than the states they live in...re-verse flow...now thats funny ,those state are losing population at a fast rate..Minnesota is gaining at a higher rate. 2000 -> 2003 Minnesota increased population by 2.8% Wisconsin increased population by 2.0% Illinois increased population by 1.9% Indiana increased population by 1.9% So much for those other states "losing population at a fast rate". FWIW: The national population increased during that same time frame by 3.3% and Texas that well known home of "conservative values" has increased in population by 6.1% I used it to refute your claims. ROFL. You can't come up with an argument for your claims of how terrible welfare costs are so you start bringing in other issues that are distributed to everyone? Do those on welfare have more money spent on them for fire protection than anyone else in the state? Define "a return on our money". There was a tax increase of $0.05 created over 20 years ago in order to pay for the Metrodome, yet that tax increase has never been rescinded. Speaking of using numbers to present a particular agenda.  Since you're the one that is betting, I suggest that you look up all of those numbers. They aren't particularly germaine to the conversation of current welfare issues though. Minnesota currently still has an 89.4% white population. Nationally there is a 75.1% white population. Utah, which many try to show as being significantly less diverse in terms of ethnic distribution than most other states because of their Mormon populations has an 89.2% white population. I'm still at a loss to figure out where segues like this fit into the discussion of medicare prescription cards. |
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