|
Post by Durian on Feb 16, 2009 1:12:57 GMT -5
1- Fresno 2- Sac State 3t- UVU (sorry not UVSC anymore 3t- SDSU don't know the rest. UVU lost to Fresno 25-23 14-25 15-11 Fresno took Sac State easily. originally UVU was on the other side of the bracket. But because Sac State was unhappy with how it was set up they switched it for them.
|
|
|
Post by vbtrain on Feb 16, 2009 10:17:12 GMT -5
Current EIVA Standings:
Division I North TEAMS WINS LOSES Cortland 5 1 SUNY - Buffalo 4 2 Syracuse 4 2 Army 3 3 Rochester Institute of Technology 3 3 Cornell 2 4 Ithaca 1 5
Division I Central TEAMS WINS LOSES Delaware 4 1 Navy 4 1 UPenn 3 2 Penn State 2 3 Maryland 1 4 Temple 0 5
Division I South TEAMS WINS LOSES Virginia Tech 2 0 Virginia 1 1 James Madison 0 0 North Carolina 0 0 Duke 0 2
|
|
|
Post by winecountryvb on Feb 16, 2009 14:03:56 GMT -5
It's all about vegas, I see some newer big names listed.
You may think Fresno is overrated, but they're proving they know how to win. Easily won Far Westerns, only challenged by a strong UVU team. SDSU and sac state seem to be right behind fresno at both of these big tournaments they've been to this year. Everybody has a lot of time to improve...
|
|
|
Post by onceabighitter on Feb 16, 2009 14:20:19 GMT -5
Just as an FYI....I think the posted scores from Day One of the Far Westerns above by "gobears" are incorrect. Appears she may have confused some 2nd team results with 1st team results.
|
|
|
Post by onceabighitter on Feb 16, 2009 14:28:48 GMT -5
After the Far Western results are now in, I would really like someone "in the know" to explain how a Junior College player can be considered a Varsity Athlete? Orange Coast College, a Junior College, participated in this weekends event and did "average" at best. I mean, among others, they lost to a Chico State team that is among the weakest in the NCCVL. So a guy who sat the bench on this shaly OCC team is now considered a "Varsity Athlete" if he follows a standard college path and moves to a 4 year school. Yet the star player from say Fresno State (I picked them since they won the tourney), could graduate this year, enroll in the minimum number of units required and play next year at say....Sac State and not only would it be perfectly legal, he wouldn't be considered a Varsity athlete. This just shows how crazy the rule that in place is. My personal opinion is that a player should be able to play 5 years of volleyball....period. JC, Club, NCAA, NAIA, whatever. And if you want to count NCAA play as a "Varsity" athlete...fine. But to punish JC kids is ridiculous!!!
|
|
|
Post by gobears on Feb 16, 2009 16:22:26 GMT -5
Far as I can tell the designation "Varsity Athlete" is given to guys who don't have to pay to play. Nothing to do with the years played...at least until 6 years of college play have occurred.
NCAA/NAIA/Community College men's vb programs have paid coaches, operations, unis, vballs, tourney costs, all travel and food and hotel paid, the whole works, paid by the athletic dept. And they have the advantage of generally better coaching and lots of it, often 2-3 coaches, trainers, precedence in gym time for their team over other campus club and rec sports...and for many some $$ in scholies...as the 4.5 allowed for NCAA are often split up among several players. Granted NCAA D3 has no scholies but their athletes don't pay to play. Many have class preference and dorm preference given over the ordinary student. ...and admission with lower gpa's/scores. All to make the Varsity athlete's experience easier and better than the club player.
While some NCAA programs and NAIA and CC? do have some fundraising they do, it is not all that much.
Club programs, non varsity athletes, on the other hand pay, get donations, pay their own food, often travel, dues can be a lot depending on what all they do. While some club programs get some $$ minimal from their club sports office/campus basically they have to pay it out of their pocket or do the fund raising. They pay the whole bill or almost the whole bill. And many have no coaches, and volunteer staff if any, or minimally paid coaches and that salary comes out of the player's pockets too. There is a fairly wide variety of club programs who have more or less sucess with getting $$. And they have to get admitted to the college where they play club on their grades.
I am aware of some teams playing club who I think do not pay, DuPage? Lakeland? but by and large, club players pay to play.
The Varsity athlete designation does seem to be tied to the stuff...benes and all.... provided to the athletes, not the years played.
The assumption is that players who have these advantages have a far better chance to be better players, are more skilled maybe to start with, and that competition with the more 'likely average skilled ' club vb player would be unfair. So they are liminted to 2 former Varsity athletes per team and that includes CC players.
Club rules that you can play 6 years, basically also assumes that after 6 years on a roster, club or NCAA/NAIA/CC, that an older more mature player is going to be likely more highly skilled and therefore also ineligible, as such competition would be ruled as unfair.
Club vball is viewed as being for undergrads or close to undergrads. Thus 6 years max.
...at least as far as I can see...
|
|
|
Post by onceabighitter on Feb 16, 2009 16:48:12 GMT -5
gobears,
I appreciate your detailed explanation of Club players being those who "pay" and Varsity players being those who "do not". Any honestly, if that were only tied into NAIA and NCAA athletes I would be fine with it. My main objection of this rule it that its punishing the JC player...and its punishing the teams at schools were these players are. Additionally...IMHO, its lowering the overall level of play. The top NCCVL teams I saw play this year would not have been able to compete with the Cals, Sac States and UCDavis' of 10 years ago. Again...I just thought "club" volleyball was about opportunities...seems those days are gone.
|
|
|
Post by gobears on Feb 16, 2009 20:59:33 GMT -5
You are correct that the large # of JC players who move on to colleges and are not on MPSF teams.... and would like to play club, are penalized if there are more than two per team. And I imagine that is the case in a number of schools, esp in socal. I have no knowledge of out of Calif clubs teams who might wish to have more JC transfers too.
Last year we had the potential of having to assign a couple JC transfers to our seocnd team, as we already had two on the varsity. Turned out they didn't enroll, but I am sure the socal club teams have to pick and choose. Putting a good JC transfer on a second team makes little sense.
Cal has never had more than one Varsity player on their team for the 20 years I have been involved as far as I can recall. ...until last year when we had two. Not sure if Sac and Davis ever have either, but I have to agree that the skill level is lower in the NCCVL than we would like these days. Fresno seems to have consistent play so far.
We have started working harder the last 4 years to get better vb players to apply and our strong huge frosh class - 15... this past fall is an encouragement. 3 are on the varsity and trying to learn fast there, to amplify and expand their game. Top skills levels tho not consistent.... the 7 seniors have experience...Not sure how that will work out as we go along here.
We'll see as they get to be sophs and juniors if the varsity reflects increasingly strong play. Don't know about the fall of 2009, as to how many strong players will arrive again after admits come out Mar. 26. NCCVL teams need to up the level of frosh skill for sure...or at least reduce the unforced errors as these players hit the varsity squads. Are the skilled HS players just scattering more to all college club teams? There are mostly NEW club teams in socal that did not exist 10 years ago. UCLA, UCSD, UCSB, Long Beach, USC, and others...so I think the top talent is just spread further around......or are more attending so cal JC's and then have no place to play as a junior/senior? Could be.
Changing the rule to allow CC players to join college club teams and not be restricted to 2, could likely have popular support across the country. Leagues need to address the issue with NIRSA.
|
|
|
Post by sokrispy on Feb 17, 2009 4:37:42 GMT -5
After the far westerns it looks a lot like this....
Ohio State thinks they are much better than they are, as one could tell by seeing the look on their faces after being ousted by Cal Poly. Cal's top "gold' team isnt much better than their "blue" team. Utah Valley is a very solid team. They were the only team to take a game off of Fresno State. Sac State seemed to run out off gas in the finals, after beating a very formidable SDSU squad. Thats all for now.
|
|
|
Post by gobears on Feb 17, 2009 11:30:49 GMT -5
It also occurs to me after some thinking about it, I think that the rule of 2 former Varsity players was instituted after Arizona started giving full scholies and therefore a ton of former D1 bench players from all over came to Arizona to get playing time. As the scholies at Arizona are over and done with, perhaps the rule of 2 max, could also be dumped. A number of club teams would get several CC players on their campus as juniors, and it would depend how good they are if they are on the team.
|
|
|
Post by bounce04 on Feb 18, 2009 0:40:42 GMT -5
i think that if the topic of player eligibility, JC players, and whether or not former varsity player should be able to play club, that it should be on its own page. This topic is brought up every year. Lets keep this to teams and results. just my 2 cents
|
|
|
Post by bounce04 on Feb 18, 2009 11:58:05 GMT -5
Did H-I fill up? See that two teams dropped out. When are pools going to be posted?
|
|
|
Post by vbtrain on Feb 18, 2009 12:42:51 GMT -5
I got an email saying the pools should be posted by tomorrow night, I am kinda confused though it looks like there are only 30 teams going? I thought I remember having 40 teams at this tournament? Anyone know why it is dropping? Last year I think there were like 34 or so...
I assume they are trying to wait for the new rankings to come out. I was told last week they should be out this week. I kinda hope they are waiting to make the pools more equal..
|
|
|
Post by gobears on Feb 18, 2009 18:16:46 GMT -5
|
|
idig6
High School
Posts: 10
|
Post by idig6 on Feb 19, 2009 11:34:00 GMT -5
so the new rankings are out, here is a link, ncvfvolleyball.org/preseason.aspxwho knows how accurate they are, I am surprised Fresno State is not at the top after hearing how they are beating up on everyone in the west pretty easily.
|
|