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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 11:26:59 GMT -5
The country formerly known as the USA.
So, let me get this straight. Bunkerboy and his cronies tortured people to try to prove the Iraq-al Qaeda connection. You know, that one that never existed. But Fox is all hot and bothered about a handshake with Chavez?
What has happened to this country?
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Post by ladeda on Apr 23, 2009 11:39:50 GMT -5
Hang in there Bill will be along soon with his twisted explanation.
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Post by goGopherBill on Apr 23, 2009 11:44:56 GMT -5
1st. Define torture.
BE SPECIFIC.
2nd ..
Why not go after Democrats who knew and approved?
ANSWER before going to 3rd pt.
3rd.
USE ANY PRECEDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY where the current administration goes after the prior on policy and legalities.
THE BAY OF PIGS INVASION ...Kennedy was guilty .
Viet Nam..Johnson and NIXON..guilty.
CLINTON/GOD ...guilty on several ..including bombing another country on the eve of his impeachment trial without notifying congress as REQUIRED.
REAGAN ..and Central America.
ONLY FOX shows both sides of the argument and LEGALITY of such arguments.
The other nitworks are for OBAMA .. well documented.
MSNBC had a poll and over 3,000 voted to impeach BUSH....
GEE, fOX had a poll and 2,000,000 want OBAMA GONE.
I guess you cant govern by polls can you?
A free sack is on its way to you...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 11:55:21 GMT -5
You lost me at "Fox had a poll..."
I don't have to define torture because everyone knows waterboarding *is* torture. We *executed* Japanese in WWII for waterboarding, so I guess by *everyone* I mean *everyone*.
You have, of course, changed the subject. I posted:
So, let me get this straight. Bunkerboy and his cronies tortured people to try to prove the Iraq-al Qaeda connection. You know, that one that never existed. But Fox is all hot and bothered about a handshake with Chavez?
I'm waiting...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 12:06:31 GMT -5
However, I'll humor you. 1st. Define torture. BE SPECIFIC. You don't have a dictionary handy? Surprise, surprise. Who were these Democrats and what is the relevance? Guilty of what? Approving a bungled CIA operation? Your point? Guilty of what? Nixon was illegally sending troops (and bombs) into Laos. Ford pardoned him for his crimes. Your point? Please cite examples of Clinton's guilt. He was a slimebag and perjured himself (for which he was impeached). I am no Bill Clinton fan, but what else? The one example you cite is pure BS. Well, Bush I wasn't going to go after him, was he, seeing as how he was up to his eyeballs in IranContra himself.  Your point? Anyhow, if you want to have a discussion about whether Bunkerboy and company should be prosecuted, start a new thread. |
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Post by oldman on Apr 23, 2009 12:11:11 GMT -5
Even if you define water boarding as torture, the USA "tortured" 3 individuals that were not uniform solders (different that WWII and not covered under Geneva Convention) and saved countless American lives.
If you do not think that was right to do fine, but I would call you naive and dangerous to the countries security.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 12:19:11 GMT -5
You have absolutely zero proof that it saved countless lives and that it was only 3 individuals. You are also telling me, IF true, that the ends justified the means. I say that is a much more dangerous attitude.
Furthermore, I was not limiting this to waterboarding. Even furthermore, the overall point is that this sort of dangerous behavior gets a pass over at Fox News whereas a handshake with Hugo is the end of the world. Glenn Beck is constantly referring to Obama as a totalitarian, but Bush gets a pass. You know, the guy who TORTURED people.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 12:22:17 GMT -5
Sorry, but this needs restating:
We tortured people to attempt to prove a non-existent connection between Iraq and al-Qaeda. We did this, I assume, to justify our invasion of Iraq. How again did this "save countless lives"?? How again is this justified in any way??
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Post by Pirate VB Fan on Apr 23, 2009 12:22:58 GMT -5
Even if you define water boarding as torture, the USA "tortured" 3 individuals that were not uniform solders (different that WWII and not covered under Geneva Convention) and saved countless American lives. If you do not think that was right to do fine, but I would call you naive and dangerous to the countries security. If you bother to read them, even the memos "justifying" the torture refer to waterboarding as torture. So, there is no question: waterboarding is torture. Torture is outlawed by both US and international law. There is no question: waterboarding is torture and torture is illegal. And no, the ends do not justify the means. It is well documented that you are far more likely to get false information under torture than true information and far more likely to get valuable information using other techniques. Shrub and his cronies were frustrated that they were not getting information "they knew" existed - even though it didn't - showing the supposed link between Saddam Hussien and Al Queda. Really, 183 times in one month? An average of 6 times a day? I think the technique probably lost some of its impact with such overkill. The Bush administration, as early as December 2001, well before the reprehensible memos were drafted, ordered the development of torture techniques and then the systematic torture of individuals under our control. That is illegal and the individuals responsible should be held to account. |
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Post by goGopherBill on Apr 23, 2009 12:23:20 GMT -5
Nope ..if you want to start a thread about torture..I am your guy.
I asked you to define torture..not some dictionary ...
Feel free to use any treaty ..convention ..you desire.
You will get your butt kicked again...WHICH by the way is NOT TORTURE.
I explained it in plain English each point...I bet others understand.
You see History show what really happened ..not what you WANT TO SEE HAPPEN.
We executed JAPs for much more than waterboarding..but I bet you wouldn't want that to get out for image sake.
Plus we won the war so we get to choose...
some might say the nuclear bombs dropped was torture...
AND THEY WOULD HAVE A VALID POINT.
Bombing civilian populations with a nuclear device is not in any treaty or convention rules.
Gee we took a bunch of hostile terrorist PIG MEN and used what they fear and hate against them.
ONLY IN AMERICA would any DOVE ,liberal weenies want to prosecute the President for errors in judgment by guards,lawyers and other politicians.
and we WON..//
IMAGINE FOR A SECOND IF WE LOST.
how credible your stupid arguments would seem to the victors..
Then you would discover what TWISTED IS REALLY LIKE and your dictionary version of torture may not seem enough.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 12:29:23 GMT -5
Nope ..if you want to start a thread about torture..I am your guy. Can't argue with that. Your posts are indeed torture. Tell you what. You respond to my actual point and then we'll move along to defining torture and to your other ridiculous comments. I'll wait. (By the way, "Japs" is an offensive term. You might want to think twice before using that one in polite company. "Pig men"? Whatever.) |
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Post by goGopherBill on Apr 23, 2009 12:31:50 GMT -5
HD ..
The stuff your wrote about is a DEMOCRATIC controlled group ...that includes McCain who is not a Republican.
In fact ..I bet another PIZZA he loses next year.
We water board our own...
the IS NO LASTING EVIDENCE OF PSYCHOLOGICAL DAMAGE..nor PHYSICAL DAMAGE...and medical staff was present ..along with doctors and evaluators.
Now Torture is said to include ..NO sleep deprivation...
No loud music...NO NOTHING.
the prisoners are not afforded protection under ANY LAW..until they get here.
Now we will feed them,house them,re educated them and release them..here.
and they will kill you.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 12:34:35 GMT -5
Still waiting.
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Post by goGopherBill on Apr 23, 2009 12:44:46 GMT -5
The country formerly known as the USA.
So, let me get this straight. Bunkerboy and his cronies tortured people to try to prove the Iraq-al Qaeda connection. You know, that one that never existed. But Fox is all hot and bothered about a handshake with Chavez?
What has happened to this country?
The COUNTRY STILL IS KNOWN AS USA... YOU LOSE.
DEFINE BUNKERBOY and his cronies...
I showed DEMOCRATS KNEW EVERY STEP OF THE WAY WHAT WAS GOING ON. BUSH informed and used the law and precedent.YOU LOSE.,
To prove a IRAQ connection?
NOPE to learn if another attack was coming and from when or where.FACT.
But they wont release that..to prove BUSH was right.
I like when HILLARY says CHENY is not reliable.
LIKE SHE and her slime husband ever were?
what has happened to this country?
Progressive ,dove... liberals have taken over for 4 years.
ENJOY.
and I use JAPS as the slang against the army that tortured and maimed and started a war ...without warning.
They used torture as a everyday army discipline.
I don't need to be polite about that..I will when talking about any current Japanese political theme or friend.
PIG MEN ...describes the men who are terrorist fighting us now..how they TREAT CIVILIZATION,women and RULE of law..
all for VIRGINS when they die.
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Post by Pirate VB Fan on Apr 23, 2009 13:23:07 GMT -5
ONLY IN AMERICA would any DOVE ,liberal weenies want to prosecute the President for errors in judgment by guards,lawyers and other politicians. No, we want to prosecute the lawyers and the other politicians for their leading rolls in authorizing and ordering illegal acts. And if Shrub gave direction (I know, he didn't on any other thing, so why this?) then him too. This is not "errors in judgment". This is breaking the law and then bragging about it. |
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