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Post by ImOFm on Apr 1, 2003 16:00:52 GMT -5
Yeah Mr. Consistence
For the year he hits like .400 and averages 5.6 kills per game or so...
so there, one bad game does not make him a bad player,
Way better then Rooney
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Post by Fan of Years on Apr 1, 2003 16:15:01 GMT -5
Way better than Rooney? Rooney is the real dizeal and demonstrates it every week. Before Ptak is considered for POY or any other such national award, let him see what he can do against the big boys. Hitting a few against Clarke, Quincy, Findlay or Ohio State counts for very little. >:(On the other hand, maybe he deserves the award as a consolation for having to play in Fort Wayne. Ever looked at the IUPU/IPFW campus? Holy cow! I remember in 2000 when IPFW lobbied for the Final Four based on the pretense that they were Final Four material. The facility was crap with water leaking through the floor. The turnout was crap. Never again! Let's see what Rooney does against UCI and UCLA this week.  |
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Post by the future on Apr 1, 2003 17:13:47 GMT -5
Wait a minute.
Reverse Rooney and Ptak. Think...then answer.
Rooney is a great prospect and fits very well in to a solid well balanced team. He is not and never will be the "freak athlete" that Jeff is.
There is a difference when you have a team of 5 potential hitters as opposed to a situation that everyone knows that you are getting the ball.
Sure some of the other IPFW kids have played well at times but they are not even close to the Pepp players nor do they pose the threat that guys like Winters, keenan and Co. do. A balanced attack makes everyone better.
Look and see how many one-on-ones Keenan has had this year (or one-on-none). Should this be held against him...no. Difficult stat to measure but the educated understands this.
I'm I dissapointed in Jeff's last outing against Lewis...sure.....hopefully he rebound.
In my humble opinion, I don't see anyone doing what he is doing on the floor.
POY - no way. This has in every sport gone to a 1st or 2nd place team.
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Post by ImOFm on Apr 1, 2003 20:45:02 GMT -5
Could not make more sense.
Lets see who starts at the World Uni. games, my boy Ptak or your little kid Rooney.
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Post by VBCrusin on Apr 2, 2003 1:47:31 GMT -5
You've all had some pretty interesting comments concerning Ptak, Rooney and Keenan...I'd like to add my two cents in the mix. ;D There is a definite argument for a great volleyball player starting on a division leading sharing the stats with teammates, OR being a star on a lesser team. I've seen some "stat-leading" players get some phenomenal numbers on a weaker team, league or division, only to fall flat against stronger competition come tournament time. Case in point, the Pepperdine squad (or Hawaii for that matter). Imagine if Keenan or Rooney or Winters were separately playing for other teams(all are potential super stars on their own)...teams who were not in the top ten. I bet you anything that each would have GREATER numbers in the kill column since they would be the "go to guys" or lone stars on their team. Their teammates would be supportive troops making sure that their star would great the most sets. I think you see where I'm going with this. Since Winters, Rooney, and Keenan all play together (and very well I might add), they do not let egos get in the way. They are the ultimate team players...their main goal is to win and get to the "Big Dance." Some nights Rooney leads, while other nights it's Winters or Keenan. In any event, they all get close numbers...evenly distributed. Does it bother them that "Joe Blow" from last place Podunt University leads the nation in kills or blocks playing against weaker teams? No. They wanted to play with the BEST players around, and for the time being, in the tougher MPSF division. Every year, the MIVA & EIVA teams get tougher because many great players from all over choose to attend the many great universities in the nation I love the Penn State campus). There will be a time when every division will be even in strengths. Is Ptak better than Rooney or Keenan and who would be better on the national team? Instead of dwelling on each player's accomplishments, it's better to have them tryout equally to see who is a better fit on that higher level. Coach Beal and his other coaches studies ALL players regardless of what team is on top. They seek those all-around players who can complement OTHER great players. My choice on which player is better? As I look at each player, there are no losers here. Each one would definitely help the national team...no argument here, Sports Fans.  |
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Post by diggger33 on Apr 2, 2003 15:08:26 GMT -5
Way better than Rooney? Rooney is the real dizeal and demonstrates it every week. Before Ptak is considered for POY or any other such national award, let him see what he can do against the big boys. Hitting a few against Clarke, Quincy, Findlay or Ohio State counts for very little. >:(On the other hand, maybe he deserves the award as a consolation for having to play in Fort Wayne. Ever looked at the IUPU/IPFW campus? Holy cow! I remember in 2000 when IPFW lobbied for the Final Four based on the pretense that they were Final Four material. The facility was crap with water leaking through the floor. The turnout was crap. Never again! Let's see what Rooney does against UCI and UCLA this week. Ok to be totally fair, we gotta clear up things here..... First of all Ptak had a crappy game against Lewis but IPFW sandbagged that match. They had nothing to gain by beating Lewis besides giving Lewis even more motivation to beat them in the MIVA tournament. IPFW had no shot at hosting the conference tournament so what was the point. I guarantee if this were for something that mattered he would be playing a lot better. This is the only explanation for their performance. Arnie pulled his WHOLE first team after the first 2 games. Second, the place where IPFW had the Final Four couple years ago was the Memorial Coliseum which is not IPFW's home gym. Quite frankly, the Coliseum did suck but they have recently renovated it and it looks a lot better. FYI, it wasn't that there was water coming up through the floor tiles, it was the fact that the floor wipers were using wet towels to wipe the floor. You can argue with me all you want, I know Marlowe and Cox were saying things to the contrary but I was there, I walked on the court after the match. I know the event director and that's what he told me. That year IPFW really did have a Final Four caliber team. They had Ptak, Hector Soto, Scott Lane, and Chris Gisslen. That SHOULD be enough to win the MIVA but Ohio State beat them that year on the strengths of their middles. Finally, Ptak IS a physical FREAK. I think he needs to retool his arm swing but other than that if there was a draft of all the collegiate players right now, he would be top 5 easily. |
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Post by diggger33 on Apr 2, 2003 15:18:52 GMT -5
snip Imagine if Keenan or Rooney or Winters were separately playing for other teams(all are potential super stars on their own)...teams who were not in the top ten. I bet you anything that each would have GREATER numbers in the kill column since they would be the "go to guys" or lone stars on their team. Their teammates would be supportive troops making sure that their star would great the most sets. I think you see where I'm going with this. snip If you are trying to say that Ptak numbers are inflated look at the stats.... Ptak has 483 attempts 255 kills in 49 games which means he has 9.8 attempts a game. Fred Winters has 703 attempts with 314 kills in 75 games which means he has 9.3 attempts a game. That's a pretty thin argument to insinuate that Ptak gets more kills a game by virtue of more attempts. |
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Post by Psychopotamus on Apr 2, 2003 16:14:19 GMT -5
Ok to be totally fair, we gotta clear up things here..... First of all Ptak had a crappy game against Lewis but IPFW sandbagged that match. They had nothing to gain by beating Lewis besides giving Lewis even more motivation to beat them in the MIVA tournament. IPFW had no shot at hosting the conference tournament so what was the point. I guarantee if this were for something that mattered he would be playing a lot better. This is the only explanation for their performance. Arnie pulled his WHOLE first team after the first 2 games. Sorry, but I don't see how this makes him the better player. I consider the better player the one who can go up against a club team in practice and rip them to shreds. The attitude of "it doesn't matter so why try" just doesn't cut it at the top level. The best of the best know if they don't give it 110% someone else who does will pass them by. I am reminded of the guy who walks up to the bouncer saying, "don't you know who I am?" Apparently, we don't. At least not yet. That year IPFW really did have a Final Four caliber team. They had Ptak, Hector Soto, Scott Lane, and Chris Gisslen. That SHOULD be enough to win the MIVA but Ohio State beat them that year on the strengths of their middles. Uh, no. I remember that year and IPFW was ranked around 7-9 and had hovered outside the top ten all year. The second place MPSF team (I'm pretty sure it was Stanford) was only ranked #2 all year, and played #1 UCLA very tough. Sorry, but there is no way that wasn't about getting the host in. |
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Post by Smell the coffee on Apr 2, 2003 16:25:44 GMT -5
Ptak .335 hitting 1.16 digs/game .59 blocks/game 13 aces 41 service errors Winters .302 hitting 1.68 digs/game 1.03 blocks/game 24 aces 44 service errors Rooney .372 hitting 1.59 digs/game .85 blocks/game 18 aces 34 service errors Far inferior numbers in a far weaker conference. Ptak would be the first OH off the bench in Malibu. |
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Post by the future on Apr 2, 2003 16:30:46 GMT -5
As much as you were trying to support Jeff and the IPFW team.....to say that they sandbagged.....not a good choice of words.
I don't think has every sandbagged......nor his ultra competitive coach Arnie. They just sucked that night.
Also the point of changing Jeff's armswing. What are you smokin'. He has the textbook armswing. Very quick, great extention and extrememly efficient. Both arms are up and cocked with no wasted motion.
If you want to show younger kids what and outside hitters motion should be it would be him and Gustavo.
VB Cruisin - most of your posting I agree with but a couple recent points like the one above are wrong!
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Post by diggger33 on Apr 3, 2003 8:40:45 GMT -5
Snip Uh, no. I remember that year and IPFW was ranked around 7-9 and had hovered outside the top ten all year. The second place MPSF team (I'm pretty sure it was Stanford) was only ranked #2 all year, and played #1 UCLA very tough. Sorry, but there is no way that wasn't about getting the host in. I wasn't saying that they deserved the at-large. I was just saying that they should have won the MIVA which would equal a Final Four team. And for the record, I am not a big supporter of IPFW. I just get to see them a lot so I think I would be able to speak intelligently about them. As far as Ptak is concerned, his armswing is a OUTSTANDING warm-up swing but it just doesn't have the shots that say a Nalbert or Giba would have. It's either straight down, straight out or blocked straight down. He doesn't have the shot to go over the block and get it in with any kind of heat. You know what shot I am talking about.... The really hard top-spin shot that you hit about 7 feet off the net. I just haven't seen him hit that very much and I have been watching him for 4 years now. I will say that he is a pretty nice guy and generally has a good attitude. Doesn't sulk or get real upset when his teammates don't perform. As far as Arnie is concerned, he would never say he sandbagged any game or match. He would say the team is "taking their medicine". You can't tell me that pulling his whole first team is putting his best out there. The second team at IPFW would have trouble winning ANY matches in the MIVA. Arnie IS competetive but he understands that sometimes losing has its benefits. |
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Post by quikset on Apr 3, 2003 18:48:20 GMT -5
Sorry, I don't care who anyone throws out there from the college game - be it Ptak, Rooney, or whoever, NONE of them are better than the OHs who are on the USA Men's roster right now.
Biggest mistake everyone has made is comparing COLLEGE PERFORMANCES with NATIONAL TEAM PERFORMANCES.
It has been said by many that the jump between the U.S. collegiate men's game to the international game is much bigger than the jump from high school to the college game.
I can rattle off at least two dozen names of players over the last 10 years who have had stellar careers in college, eclisping anything that Ptak or Rooney or whoever has done so far, and have not cut it at the international level.
Just a few examples:
Nygaard (NCAA POY '94, '95)
Lambert (NCAA POY '97)
Roumain (NCAA POY '98,'99)
Just a reminder...all of these players were on the 2000 Olympic team that finished tied for 11th (along with international power Egypt) at the Sydney Olympics after going 0-5 in pool play.
I think everyone should take a step back and allow the players to prove themselves on their own merit before predicting future greatness.
-Aaron
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Post by the future on Apr 3, 2003 19:31:26 GMT -5
I do agree with both points that you make. We should leave Jeff and other players alone until they get a chance to prove it.
Theare are many Heisman Trophy winners who never pan out in the pros.
The second point about our National team going 0-5 and finishing 11th......is exactly why people have gotten on this discussion. The OH's in the Pipeline are not as solid as we all would like. Therefore we are looking for a Prospect to step in and contribute. I have clearly stated that I think Jeff will be that guy...others have other suggestions.....you say that we already have guys there to do the job.
This brings up another question.
If we look at world rosters around the world I think we will find 19-22 year old kids starting on these teams who are and have been beating us in recent years.
Have we never come across a kid who can do this also or is this just a mindset of the USA Volleyball....because we still believe the prime of a Men's V-Ball player is 26-28.
Maybe this best discussed on another thread....and we leave the Ptak kid alone.
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Post by VBfanatic on Apr 21, 2003 12:18:48 GMT -5
We'll see which OH duo is going to start for the US University Team at World University Games in South Korea this summer. Rooney-Winters or Ptak-Olree ??
Ptak is an athletic FREAK and is a way better ball player than Rooney.
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Post by vballmom on Apr 21, 2003 12:41:26 GMT -5
Just as an FYI, Winters if from Canada, so he may be starting, but it won't be for the USA. And why couldn't it be Rooney and Ptak?
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