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Post by azvb on Mar 2, 2011 19:44:06 GMT -5
BYU is having a great season, some say may get a #1 seed. Honestly, I have no idea how Jim McMahon stayed 4 years at BYU, but obviously they aren't looking the other way with athletes these days (Harvey Unga last year and now Brandon Davies). Interesting video and story about BYU's Honor Code. sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=6175251 |
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Post by younggun on Mar 2, 2011 23:31:42 GMT -5
It is a shame that this happened at this point. But I am glad the school stuck by the code.
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Post by Thrill of the 'ville on Mar 3, 2011 11:08:08 GMT -5
Reports have surfaced that he broke the code by having sex with his girlfriend.
BYU looked terrible last night without him.
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Post by BearClause on Mar 3, 2011 11:55:59 GMT -5
Here's the honor code: saas.byu.edu/catalog/2010-2011ucat/GeneralInfo/HonorCode.php#HCOfficeInvovementI'm sure it's probably not as strict as the letter of the code. I thought that a good deal of BYU students were older and possibly married. I would think chastity would be impractical. Also - the dress and grooming standards seem to leave room for exceptions. I mean - a basketball player would seem to be in violation of the prohibition on sleeveless tops and shorts that don't reach at least the knees. Then there are women's volleyball uniforms, which would seem to be form-fitting. Does this guy seem to be in compliance?  Clothing is inappropriate when it is sleeveless, revealing, or form fitting. Shorts must be knee-length or longer. |
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Post by azvb on Mar 3, 2011 13:37:05 GMT -5
Here's the honor code: saas.byu.edu/catalog/2010-2011ucat/GeneralInfo/HonorCode.php#HCOfficeInvovementI'm sure it's probably not as strict as the letter of the code. I thought that a good deal of BYU students were older and possibly married. I would think chastity would be impractical. Also - the dress and grooming standards seem to leave room for exceptions. I mean - a basketball player would seem to be in violation of the prohibition on sleeveless tops and shorts that don't reach at least the knees. Then there are women's volleyball uniforms, which would seem to be form-fitting. Does this guy seem to be in compliance? Clothing is inappropriate when it is sleeveless, revealing, or form fitting. Shorts must be knee-length or longer.I'm assuming you are joking, right? Now you know why Mormons tend to marry so young - we have hormones like the rest of the population! No, the sexual purity part doesn't apply to married students. Except of course, adultery would be a no-no. The dress code applies to what is worn on campus, not what is worn by athletes during games. Although Elaine Michaelis resisted the bun huggers a long time (thank heavens for me)because she felt they were immodest. I agree - the team looked horrible last night. Hopefully with some practice time they can work out how to play without him. Feel bad for all involved, but I'm also proud of my alma mater for having having standards and sticking to them. |
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Post by Phaedrus on Mar 3, 2011 15:25:35 GMT -5
It is actually quite commendable of BYU to stick to their guns. The surprising part is that he is a practicing Mormon from Provo and not some interloper like Jim McMahon, so he knew better.
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Post by BearClause on Mar 3, 2011 16:01:31 GMT -5
I'm assuming you are joking, right? Now you know why Mormons tend to marry so young - we have hormones like the rest of the population! No, the sexual purity part doesn't apply to married students. Except of course, adultery would be a no-no. The dress code applies to what is worn on campus, not what is worn by athletes during games. Although Elaine Michaelis resisted the bun huggers a long time (thank heavens for me)because she felt they were immodest. I agree - the team looked horrible last night. Hopefully with some practice time they can work out how to play without him. Feel bad for all involved, but I'm also proud of my alma mater for having having standards and sticking to them. Of course I was joking to some degree. However - I went over the honor code forwards, backwards, upside down and sideways - I couldn't find any exception for married students. I'm sure an exception practically exists, but the code and its official clarifications make no note of it. Since it also applies to faculty, I'm sure no married faculty members would even think of joining if that part were enforced as written. The dress code also doesn't mention where it should be enforced. However - the honor code does mention "on and off campus", and doesn't exclude "Observe the Dress and Grooming Standards". It also says "all time and all places" although if it were literally true, then how the heck would anyone ever take a shower or change clothes? I sense what it means, but the language doesn't apply any flexibility. I think one of the problems with the wording is that they make it sound as if they're describing absolutes without explaining what might be exceptions. Would a student wearing a tank top to the gym be out of compliance? I would think not because it's appropriate for the situation, but again the honor code as written only applies absolutes without mentioning the exceptions. |
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Post by pedro el leon on Mar 3, 2011 16:22:35 GMT -5
Reports have surfaced that he broke the code by having sex with his girlfriend. If this is true, what's creepy to me is how the school found out about it. Guilty conscience from the young man and/or woman involved? Or paid/volunteer voyeurs? Sticking to their code is nice and all, but an organization of any kind telling people how to behave in their own private life is something I could never agree with. I hope people think that through before committing to any organization in life. |
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Post by Not Me on Mar 3, 2011 17:02:05 GMT -5
Reports have surfaced that he broke the code by having sex with his girlfriend. If this is true, what's creepy to me is how the school found out about it. Guilty conscience from the young man and/or woman involved? Or paid/volunteer voyeurs? Sticking to their code is nice and all, but an organization of any kind telling people how to behave in their own private life is something I could never agree with. I hope people think that through before committing to any organization in life. i was thinking the same thing. |
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Post by azvb on Mar 3, 2011 19:02:06 GMT -5
quote] Of course I was joking to some degree. However - I went over the honor code forwards, backwards, upside down and sideways - I couldn't find any exception for married students. I'm sure an exception practically exists, but the code and its official clarifications make no note of it. Since it also applies to faculty, I'm sure no married faculty members would even think of joining if that part were enforced as written. The dress code also doesn't mention where it should be enforced. However - the honor code does mention "on and off campus", and doesn't exclude "Observe the Dress and Grooming Standards". It also says "all time and all places" although if it were literally true, then how the heck would anyone ever take a shower or change clothes? I sense what it means, but the language doesn't apply any flexibility. I think one of the problems with the wording is that they make it sound as if they're describing absolutes without explaining what might be exceptions. Would a student wearing a tank top to the gym be out of compliance? I would think not because it's appropriate for the situation, but again the honor code as written only applies absolutes without mentioning the exceptions. Well, you're right bearclause, the Honor Code doesn't specify sex between married people is okay. I always thought the Honor Code used the words "pre-marital sex", but it doesn't. I think BYU would like to give guidelines and let the students use common sense to "fill in the holes" i.e. when taking a shower. And no, tank tops aren't allowed at intramurals, gym classes. Clothing is issued for gym classes (shorts and t-shirts). Sleeves must be worn for intramurals (my son found this out at his 1st intramural bb game a few weeks ago). Funny - in the 70's everyone complained the gym shorts were too long (came to the knee). Now they complain the gym shorts are too short (come to the knee)! Believe it or not, the dress/grooming code has relaxed quite a bit. Jeans weren't allowed when I was there. No shorts of any length allowed on campus (except at the gym). No mustaches, no sideburns below the ears, etc. I remember college men's teams would come in to play the BYU club team and they stuck out like sore thumbs on campus. They probably wouldn't now - unless their hair was long. I feel bad this poor kid has his picture and name splashed everywhere. A girl I played with in the 70's was dismissed for the same thing, but message boards, chat rooms, the internet didn't exist. She came back and played the next year. I read an interesting article about a football player who came back after an Honor Code violation. I'll try to post it. Would not be an easy thing to do. |
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Post by azvb on Mar 3, 2011 19:17:00 GMT -5
Reports have surfaced that he broke the code by having sex with his girlfriend. If this is true, what's creepy to me is how the school found out about it. Guilty conscience from the young man and/or woman involved? Or paid/volunteer voyeurs? Sticking to their code is nice and all, but an organization of any kind telling people how to behave in their own private life is something I could never agree with. I hope people think that through before committing to any organization in life. From what I gather, he came in on Monday and told the coaching staff who in turn informed the Honor Code office. No, no paid or volunteer voyeurs lurking about looking for violations. Yes, BYU isn't for everyone. One article I read said it is amazing they are as competitive as they are with the rules they have on personal behavior. I chose BYU because of the Honor Code. No drunk roommates, no surprise sleepover guests of the opposite sex, no smoke filled libraries (smoking was allowed back then), no "f" bombs dropping right and left. Was it hard? Not really. Yes, when you're in the middle of a heavy duty make out session it's difficult to call it a night. I appreciated the curfews and the rules - helped me stay on the "straight and narrow". I did hate those long shorts though  . |
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Post by azvb on Mar 3, 2011 19:28:16 GMT -5
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Post by pedro el leon on Mar 3, 2011 20:03:51 GMT -5
If this is true, what's creepy to me is how the school found out about it. Guilty conscience from the young man and/or woman involved? Or paid/volunteer voyeurs? Sticking to their code is nice and all, but an organization of any kind telling people how to behave in their own private life is something I could never agree with. I hope people think that through before committing to any organization in life. From what I gather, he came in on Monday and told the coaching staff who in turn informed the Honor Code office. I can respect that. I don't agree with it, but I can respect him for honoring a code he committed to. All I'll say is that I'd be labeled a serious troublemaker if my college years were spent at BYU.  I can understand your own logic for wanting that kind of environment... I guess it just comes down to that age old human concept: Different strokes for different folks. |
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Post by bigfan on Mar 3, 2011 21:00:10 GMT -5
I'm assuming you are joking, right? Why can't we all just get along? |
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Post by Thrill of the 'ville on Mar 3, 2011 21:15:40 GMT -5
In actuality, BYU's honor code is not as strict as some other schools. When I was applying to colleges my mom had me check out a certain school. After visiting and hearing about their rules and regulations as well as how strictly they are enforced, I realized I would have been kicked out after a week (it would be quicker but they give you a warning first)...and I considered myself a pretty good kid.
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I can understand your own logic for wanting that kind of environment... I guess it just comes down to that age old human concept: Different strokes for different folks.