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Post by midnightblue on Aug 3, 2012 16:16:40 GMT -5
Hugh would NEVER not put his best team on the floor in hopes of losing to screw over some other team. It doesn't even make sense.
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 3, 2012 16:22:17 GMT -5
Hugh would NEVER not put his best team on the floor in hopes of losing to screw over some other team. It doesn't even make sense. I agree, and that's what I said. But clearly some other people on this board think the US should try to lose to Turkey.
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Post by sistahsledge on Aug 3, 2012 16:23:12 GMT -5
It's too bad USA doesn't have any walkover teams like Algeria or GB in the pool so Hugh can let players like Thompson, Myashiro, Hodge, and Haneef play a full match.
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Post by postitagain2 on Aug 3, 2012 16:30:34 GMT -5
everytime the camera shoots to the head ref she looks incredibly disinterested I noticed the same thing. The up ref looked bored. On another note, I'm surprised how upbeat everyone is about this win. I think before today we have been playing really well. But, I'm I the only one that thought we didn't look all that great today? I understand this wasn't exactly a big match -- but I thought we were a little sloppy. Probably human nature, and I'm sure Hugh and staff will have us running much more smoothly against Turkey. But I would say this was not even close to our best effort today.
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Post by jasonr on Aug 3, 2012 16:37:56 GMT -5
I think Hugh should be playing to make a statement. We aren't afraid of Brazil or Turkey or Russia or Japan or anybody. Put the pedal all the way to the floor and try to go undefeated. Deliberately trying to get Brazil knocked out of the medal round sends the opposite message -- that we are afraid of a rematch. Are we really having this discussion in light of the recent badmitton controversy? Does volleyball have a different set of ethics? I don't think letting Turkey win 2 sets to send Brazil home is unethical. Unsportsmanlike? Sure. But the US would be sandbagging as a strategy to improve their chances of winning the gold medal, that's just strategy. It's like an NFL or NBA team tanking late in the season once homefield or homecourt advantage is locked up so that they can negatively affect a rival, divisional opponent, or a potentially tough match-up. Personally, I think what happened to those badminton teams was unfortunate. They weren't throwing matches to win wagers, they did it to secure an easier path toward winning gold. It's perfectly logical and if trying to win is the expressed purpose of competing, competitors should be able to employ any strategy. That said, I don't think Brazil is all that scary to be worth implementing that strategy, and I certainly don't think Hugh would ever do it anyway. As others have said, USA the #1 ranked team in the world, and they should act like it and not be afraid of anyone. Just take care of business and beat everyone put in front of them.
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Post by ugopher on Aug 3, 2012 16:42:07 GMT -5
everytime the camera shoots to the head ref she looks incredibly disinterested I noticed the same thing. The up ref looked bored. On another note, I'm surprised how upbeat everyone is about this win. I think before today we have been playing really well. But, I'm I the only one that thought we didn't look all that great today? I understand this wasn't exactly a big match -- but I thought we were a little sloppy. Probably human nature, and I'm sure Hugh and staff will have us running much more smoothly against Turkey. But I would say this was not even close to our best effort today. I wasn't able to watch the match so this is purely speculation (as opposed to the usual "facts" I present ;D ) but after three very tough matches against Korea, Brazil, and China a letdown could have been anticipated. The team may have been happy to get a three set win and avoid a major letdown. And, they may have realized that they clinched the top spot in their pool.
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Post by foreignball on Aug 3, 2012 17:00:52 GMT -5
Are we really having this discussion in light of the recent badmitton controversy? Does volleyball have a different set of ethics? I don't think letting Turkey win 2 sets to send Brazil home is unethical. Unsportsmanlike? Sure. But the US would be sandbagging as a strategy to improve their chances of winning the gold medal, that's just strategy. It's like an NFL or NBA team tanking late in the season once homefield or homecourt advantage is locked up so that they can negatively affect a rival, divisional opponent, or a potentially tough match-up. Personally, I think what happened to those badminton teams was unfortunate. They weren't throwing matches to win wagers, they did it to secure an easier path toward winning gold. It's perfectly logical and if trying to win is the expressed purpose of competing, competitors should be able to employ any strategy. It also takes place in vball - BRA (m) did it during the last WC against BUL; POL (m) did it during ECH 2012 vs SLK. They simply played they benches in order to avoid certain opponents in the elimination round. In both occasions it worked out well.
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Post by sistahsledge on Aug 3, 2012 17:19:47 GMT -5
I think playing your subs is perfectly legitimate. Even though they might not match up against your opponent's starters, you know they'll still play to the best of their abilities. What those badminton players did, intentionally hitting out or into the net, was an insult to the sport and the people who paid good money to see real competition.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 18:16:42 GMT -5
I think playing your subs is perfectly legitimate. Even though they might not match up against your opponent's starters, you know they'll still play to the best of their abilities. What those badminton players did, intentionally hitting out or into the net, was an insult to the sport and the people who paid good money to see real competition. Agreed to an extent. Playing your subs is a completely respectable strategy in my mind, especially when you know you've already clinched the top spot in the group and a quarterfinal berth. I'd kick myself if one of my starters got hurt in a game we didn't need to win. Our subs aren't terrible either. They're definitely competitive- mostly the group that took out Brazil in the wgp. Then again, roster size is a lot smaller than normal
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Post by jagdpanther on Aug 3, 2012 18:37:41 GMT -5
I haven't seen a match since the opening match. @_@ Maybe that's the key to the winning? lol
I should be able to see the Turkey match, though.
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Post by jasonr on Aug 3, 2012 19:38:59 GMT -5
I think playing your subs is perfectly legitimate. Even though they might not match up against your opponent's starters, you know they'll still play to the best of their abilities. What those badminton players did, intentionally hitting out or into the net, was an insult to the sport and the people who paid good money to see real competition. Agreed to an extent. Playing your subs is a completely respectable strategy in my mind, especially when you know you've already clinched the top spot in the group and a quarterfinal berth. I'd kick myself if one of my starters got hurt in a game we didn't need to win. Our subs aren't terrible either. They're definitely competitive- mostly the group that took out Brazil in the wgp. Then again, roster size is a lot smaller than normal That's a tough balance too. It's the old debate of rest vs. rhythm. I'd say, play the starters for 1-2 set(s) just to keep their rhythm, then let subs close it out.
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 3, 2012 20:03:00 GMT -5
I don't think letting Turkey win 2 sets to send Brazil home is unethical. Yes it is. Manipulating either the outcome or the margin of victory is unethical. It's known as "points shaving" and in any legitimate sport it will draw severe penalties or banishment if it can be proven. There is a difference between "not running up the score" or "taking it easy to rest the starters" and deliberate manipulation of the margin of victory.
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Post by holidayhusker on Aug 3, 2012 20:24:54 GMT -5
I don't think letting Turkey win 2 sets to send Brazil home is unethical. Yes it is. Manipulating either the outcome or the margin of victory is unethical. It's known as "points shaving" and in any legitimate sport it will draw severe penalties or banishment if it can be proven. There is a difference between "not running up the score" or "taking it easy to rest the starters" and deliberate manipulation of the margin of victory. Oh gees....now I have to agree with you. These are dark days.
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Post by jasonr on Aug 3, 2012 20:48:52 GMT -5
I don't think letting Turkey win 2 sets to send Brazil home is unethical. Yes it is. Manipulating either the outcome or the margin of victory is unethical. It's known as "points shaving" and in any legitimate sport it will draw severe penalties or banishment if it can be proven. There is a difference between "not running up the score" or "taking it easy to rest the starters" and deliberate manipulation of the margin of victory. Point shaving is only illegal because of the gambling factor. If you can't prove that the players, or associates of players, that shaved points benefited financially, it's not illegal at all. Like I said, these examples are when teams do it to better their long term results, not to bet on the sport. Perfectly legally.
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Post by baywatcher on Aug 3, 2012 23:02:50 GMT -5
If a starter gets hurt I guess it's an "honorable" loss. Intentionally losing two sets is not right, but I see no problem with playing the bench. They have earned the right, most of them traveling with the national team to wherever forever. Even remember reading about Thompson on an airplane in Russia for the Grand Prix a couple of years ago. I would like to see Tom, Berg and Hooker get a good rest, especially Berg, as her knees need to hold up another week. But playing Thomjpson full time is the easiest way to draw criticism. Timing can be gotten back against the Dominican Republic.
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