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Post by LowCal on Apr 12, 2003 1:50:38 GMT -5
This question may seem like a basic one but still to this day based upon what I have seen and heard, I have questions on how statistics for kills are determined.
I seen threads on some message boards where S. Klosterman tallied up 55 Kills this season in a match. I also seen a stat where some kid in San Diego had 1600+ kills in his 4 year high school career. In these cases, thats a hell of a lot of sets to be receiving which made me think of what exactly constitutes as a kill.
I asked this question to many people in the volleyball community in my area and I have been given many different responses. Some have told me that its only when a ball is attacked after it is set. Some have said that it is anything that results directly to a point or a side out (high school). With these definitions given to me, I am now confused because there is such a wide range of possibilities besides just putting away a set ball.
Does a block that goes down register as a kill?
Does an Ace register as a kill?
Does an "errant pass" that goes over the net and lands count as a kill?
Thanks in advance to the people who can give some educated input to my question and not bashing me for my ignorance about something that seems so basic.
Thanks
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Post by Eater on Apr 12, 2003 3:02:47 GMT -5
blocks and aces are not kills, I'm pretty sure bad passes that drop on the other side are kills.
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Post by Psychopotamus on Apr 12, 2003 3:16:21 GMT -5
My understanding is that anything other than a block or an error that results in a point is considered a kill. This includes digs, dumps, tooling the block and even overpasses.
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Post by kolohekeiki on Apr 12, 2003 3:28:30 GMT -5
A kill is also registered on a net violation by the opposing team.
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Post by LowCal on Apr 12, 2003 5:36:10 GMT -5
So for the blocks, it is NOT considered a kill. What is it considered? Or is it?
In order for it to be a block, does the ball have to be terminated after the block or is it concidered a block even if its still playable by the other team?
And I assume that Aces are just aces. Nothing more.
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Post by vballmom on Apr 12, 2003 7:23:53 GMT -5
A block is only a block if the ball is terminated, if it is played up at all, it is not a block.
A kill is any time the hitter scores - tooling the blocker, error by the blocker, ball landing inside the court. If you have to pass the all over and no one touches it, that is a kill too, but if it is passed up, it is not an attempt.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Apr 12, 2003 15:59:02 GMT -5
From the NCAA stats-keeping book: www.ncaa.org/library/statistical/volleyball_stats_manual/2002/2002_volleyball_stats_manual.pdfSummary of Article 1- this section defines an attack (which is not a serve nor a block). This is important for the kill definition. There are three results that can occur from an attack: 1) a kill, 2) an attack error, and 3) a "zero attack" in which the ball was returned. There are technicalities about zero attacks resulting in kills, etc. but are not important to the kill definition. Article 2] -A kill is awarded to a player any time an attack is unreturnable by the opposition and is a direct cause of the opponent not returning the ball or an time the attack leads directly to a blocking error by the opposition. A kill leads directly to a point. When a player is awarded a kill, the player also is awarded an attack attempt.I realize you are asking for high school, but I believe the principle is basically the same. In a nutshell: any time that a player hits or touches a ball that leads directly to a point on the opposition (Except for blocking and serving) a kill is awarded. Hope it helps. |
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Post by VBCrusin on Apr 12, 2003 16:02:20 GMT -5
Interesting takes on KILLS... Another question. for you golfers...is a "DIVOT" the hole left after the golf swing or the section of turf which flew yards away?  |
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Post by LowCal on Apr 12, 2003 16:38:33 GMT -5
So, a block is only a block if it leads to a point/side out.
So when a player blocks a ball, but is still playable by the team that hit it, it is NOT a block? It just seems like it would be a block since it was "blocked", but not terminated.
Am i looking to deep into this or does anyone else see why im confused?
As for the Klosterman kid who had i think 55 kills, so that means he was set about/at least 54 times? did he hit over 90% or something? thats a grip of kills.
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Post by LA Fan on Apr 12, 2003 20:32:40 GMT -5
So, a block is only a block if it leads to a point/side out. So when a player blocks a ball, but is still playable by the team that hit it, it is NOT a block? It just seems like it would be a block since it was "blocked", but not terminated. Am i looking to deep into this or does anyone else see why im confused? As for the Klosterman kid who had i think 55 kills, so that means he was set about/at least 54 times? did he hit over 90% or something? thats a grip of kills. High school is still playing side out scoring, so you can get a lot of kills. It changes to rally scoring next year. He probably had 80-90 sets to get 55 kills. (You need more sets than kills, not less.) He had more than that against us on Thursday, probably in the high 60s. the vast majority were hard hits, a few were rollshots and dumps. |
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Post by LowCal on Apr 12, 2003 22:24:09 GMT -5
wow, so you got to play against this guy? Was basically every time he touched the ball, he smashed it? No digs from the opposing team or hitting errors on his part?
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Post by sandcrabbb on Apr 13, 2003 14:12:11 GMT -5
Does anyone know the record for # of kills in a match for guys? I heard a couple of years ago, a girl from Bonita Vista High School in San Diego set the all time record for kills in a match. Something like 57, and that was in the California State final.
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Post by LA Fan on Apr 13, 2003 14:51:37 GMT -5
wow, so you got to play against this guy? Was basically every time he touched the ball, he smashed it? No digs from the opposing team or hitting errors on his part? No one can have a perfect game. The post said it takes 80-90 sets to get 55 kills (a guesstimate). Awkward, softer, easy-to-pass hits from bad sets are counted as hit attempts too by the way. There were blocks, out hits and digs, of course. The Sunset League here in So. Cal has had more than its share of quality players over the years. I recall Hagstrom from Fountain Valley had 69 kills in a game. And someone had 81 kills about 7 years ago in a Marina game. The Sunset Leage alone could post a quality all star team of curent and past college players. |
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Post by sweetieVBfan on Apr 13, 2003 20:50:03 GMT -5
well then what exactly is a dig?
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Post by OC Homer on Apr 14, 2003 15:02:09 GMT -5
John Parfitt had 77 kills for Canyon/anaheim last year. Klosterman has been terrific for Marina this year, but plays on a bad team. While I worry about him having a dead arm by the time club rolls around, his team is so bad that he most likely will have plenty of time to rest it during CIF playoffs. Kill numbers will go down next year when HS goes to rally scoring. I think the stat. is over-rated and tells very little about overall ability. I would rather see a stat. like net points from rally scoring. That would be kills+aces+blocks minus service and hitting errors and shanked passes, mishandled balls etc. A difficult stat for sure, but a player w/ 5-6 kills a game could still be a liability on the court under rally scoring.
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