NVL attempts power grab of Junior Beach

[jjvball]

 
It looks as though Al-B and the NVL are looking to cause more confusion and divide the junior beach scene instead of uniting it. I think the majority of us always knew that the NVL would eventually try to make a power grab for the juniors scene after providing a less than "good" pro product. I'm not personally trying to knock the NVL but many would like for them to not venture into the juniors. Once again, the players and parents will be the victims this time around instead of adult pro/am level players. Until the NVL can actually produce a stable "real" pro tour on its own with multiple stops, decent payouts, actual individual tournament information, and become a legitimate organization, they should stay clear of the junior scene and leave it to established organizations and regional tournament directors. Smoke and mirrors tends to work with adult players who have little choice or say in pursuing their dreams but when you're dealing with kids and parents its a whole different story. Sad day for the blooming junior beach volleyball scene.

[guest2]

No feel no need to explain what you are talking about rather than making cryptic nasty remarks

[Semp12]

For the pro's, I understand that one tour getting all the sponsorship money so the prize $$ is enough for pro's to live off of. What is the difference whether the NVL runs its own juniors tournaments or unites with USAV (and all the organizations under USAV)? If parents and players are so much smarter than the adult players then don't play the NVL tournaments if you don't like them..

[unrated]

Classic Troll.

[mjnaleva]

Dec 21, 2013 21:13:43 GMT -5 Semp12 said:

For the pro's, I understand that one tour getting all the sponsorship money so the prize $$ is enough for pro's to live off of. What is the difference whether the NVL runs its own juniors tournaments or unites with USAV (and all the organizations under USAV)? If parents and players are so much smarter than the adult players then don't play the NVL tournaments if you don't like them..

While I'm all for beach opportunities for the juniors, isn't this introducing yet another membership for participants? While most people probably play in a few local events that may be under the same organization, it's really a mess when you look beyond the local scene. On the Juniors side you've got USAV, AAU, and now NVL. Then there are groups like VolleyAmerica and CBVA with their own memberships too. Doesn't this seem like a messy situation that should be cleaned up instead of worsened? To add, there was another recent press release from NVL about Florida Region/USA volleyball being involved in this NVL series, which on the surface seems even more odd if ultimately it's not really part of the USAV umbrella. Maybe it is... waiting to hear some clarification on this. If anyone knows, please share.

I think this is part of what the above poster was alluding to. It's always easier said than done to have everyone work in a united front, especially when money is ultimately involved and so many people looking to grab a piece of the pie. Everyone will claim they have the players' best interests in mind too. I can see the argument too that having various organizations competing against each other isn't necessarily bad. If the product offered is bad, then the organization either adapts to make it good or folds.

[geddyleeridesagain]

I'd be interested in hearing more detail as to what the NVL has in the works. I know that Al-B made some sort of presentation at the AVCA Convention, but haven't talked to anyone who was in attendance. So what's the deal?

[jjvball]

Thanks MJNALEVA for interpreting my post correctly. I do feel in the end this is all about $$$ on the NVL's part. Not bashing at all. I know they are asking various beach club directors and tournament directors to host tourneys under the NVL title. Players would register through the NVL, the NVL would take a percentage of the entry fee, then provide a ranking system of some sort and probably a national championship event. All of which makes no sense at this point. National beach rankings, anything outside of 18under, are pointless at this stage due to many different factors. There are already various national championships, regional championships and state championships. There's only so many available weekends during the summer, it takes money away from existing club directors who host their own tournaments and the majority of top players are not going to spend the money to travel each weekend with all the various national events. No issues with the NVL hosting their own juniors events but issues with the way they're attempting to "piggyback" off of others. The NVL has yet to put together a Pro Tour of their own, one can only imagine that they lack the finances, resources and staff to operate a well run national juniors program. You can call it muddying the waters, power grab, or whatever you choose but I feel the NVL is very misleading in what their organization actually is at this point and is taking advantage of peoples lack of knowledge. I wish nothing but the best for the NVL in everything that they do but this is one area that they should probably avoid outside of running a few juniors events that are attached to their high level amateur or "pro" level events.

[acemand23]

This is a great move by the NVL. They need to stay in more of the semi pro tour anyway, and this is just another avenue for juniors to get a taste of what the higher level looks like. EVP has a good model but they keep their tour small and at a lower level than semi pro.

Lets be honest and recognize that our sport is not a real money maker so we are not looking for the best path for our kids to be "pros". We should welcome to opportunity for juniors to have fun playing beach volleyball.

Personally, I think indoor club organisations are just worried that they will see their revenue stream start to dry up as kids start to play more outdoor than indoor.

[jjvball]

I completely agree that the indoor club organizations are a little nervous but indoor club will eventually go the way of AAU basketball if it hasn't already. I'm seeing more and more parents realize that volleyball is a sport that is based on genetics. By age 14, parents are seeing the "light" and more and more kids are switching to beach. My complaint with the NVL at this time is let this "thing", juniors beach volleyball, grow for a little while before trying to jump in and make money and cause issues. Which they will! The NVL has no expertise in being a governing body or organization that can smoothly run anything in regards to juniors let alone adult events. There record speaks for itself. I'm sure they would be upset if the AVP launched a juniors series. The NVL is NOT a pro tour like they advertise, they are not doing quite a few things that they advertise, so why would any tournament director or club director do all the work in running a tournament, getting teams, and all the other stuff that comes with running a tournament just to turn over part of the proceeds to the NVL when the directors have already been running these tournaments without the NVL for years? What is the NVL adding to these already existing tournaments and organizations? They're taking advantage of people/parents without real knowledge of our sport. The NVL just wants the money and has no interest in really "growing the game" in regards to the juniors. Now if they combined with USA Volleyball or AAU then things would be much different or if the NVL financially footed the bill for their own series of junior tournaments and ran the events themselves than that would be a more ethical approach to doing things.

[crawdaddy]

Wait, somebody wants to make money off of juniors volleyball? I'm shocked!

[mjnaleva]

I've gotten confirmation from a couple USA Beach contacts that NVL is basically doing their own thing... trying to create a system that like most other organizations (AAU and USAV included) ultimately relies on local operators to do all the heavy-lifting to make events a success while taking a certain percentage of registration fees or at the least getting fees through a membership program of some kind. I suppose there are pros and cons to each organization and ultimately local operators are free to choose who they affiliate with, if anyone. It's still perplexing that a USAV regional association (namely Florida) would be actively involved in what is direct competition to USAV. It seems almost like a mutany of sorts.

Don't get me wrong... NVL is free to do what it wants and more power to it if it succeeds. It just seems like they're trying to get involved in EVERYTHING with volleyball. This is an organization with a handful of staff members, right? My concern given the questions about legitimacy of its pro tour attempts is whether it really is equipped to make all of this work well? As the saying goes... the devil is in the details... and this is something NVL never seems to excel at. There was an announcement in August about some large beach academy facility in Port St. Lucie, FL. Still waiting to hear about some update of any kind (5 months later). Pictures? Project schedule update?

[mjnaleva]

Dec 23, 2013 17:02:56 GMT -5 acemand23 said:

EVP has a good model but they keep their tour small and at a lower level than semi pro.

I've been wanting to know more about EVP and what it's been doing right. Can you elaborate? I've never attended an event but have generally heard not-so-great things from others... ranging from poorly organized to poorly attended. I thought its focus was on the pro-am division using a city vs. city theme too but maybe the player recruitment isn't great when you say it's "lower level than semi pro". In any case, EVP is another organization that has both adult and junior offerings now. As I alluded to in my previous post, it's ultimately the local organizers running the events that make for a successful event.

[VolleyChick]

Just saw the 2014 schedule - Atlantic City in early May could be tough - but glad there's something close to home on it.

[guest2]

Dec 23, 2013 15:57:24 GMT -5 jjvball said:

Thanks MJNALEVA for interpreting my post correctly. I do feel in the end this is all about $$$ on the NVL's part. Not bashing at all. I know they are asking various beach club directors and tournament directors to host tourneys under the NVL title. Players would register through the NVL, the NVL would take a percentage of the entry fee, then provide a ranking system of some sort and probably a national championship event.

Isnt this what USAV does? Why isn't that a problem when USAV does it?

All of which makes no sense at this point. National beach rankings, anything outside of 18under, are pointless at this stage due to many different factors.


Pointless for so many different factors none of which you name? Are they pointless in all the other sports that have them? Wouldn't such ratings help colleges recruit for their beach programs, help high level juniors measure themselves against each other, etc.?


There are already various national championships, regional championships and state championships.

So why aren't you attacking them?


There's only so many available weekends during the summer, it takes money away from existing club directors who host their own tournaments and the majority of top players are not going to spend the money to travel each weekend with all the various national events. No issues with the NVL hosting their own juniors events but issues with the way they're attempting to "piggyback" off of others. The NVL has yet to put together a Pro Tour of their own, one can only imagine that they lack the finances, resources and staff to operate a well run national juniors program.

Running a juniors program is easier in a lot of ways than a pro tour, the most important being easily identifiable revenue streams. Failure to do one doesn't necessarily mean a failure to do the other You can call it muddying the waters, power grab, or whatever you choose but I feel the NVL is very misleading in what their organization actually is at this point and is taking advantage of peoples lack of knowledge. I wish nothing but the best for the NVL in everything that they do

Come on now. That statement is simply a lie.

but this is one area that they should probably avoid outside of running a few juniors events that are attached to their high level amateur or "pro" level events.

I know very little about beach juniors, but you clearly have an axe to grind here. If the NVL tries this and fails how does that hurt anyone else? Beach tours, event series, etc. come and go all the time, what does it matter if the NVL tries to put its hand in?

[jjvball]

No axe to grind and wish the NVL nothing but the best in all they do. I just feel this is poor timing on their part. As for your comment about rankings, I didn't name all of them b/c I could write a book on why they're pointless and wouldn't be accurate. Regional rankings might be something to consider but national rankings at this stage wouldn't be a good thing for the lower age groups. Your comment about the various national and regional and state championships leaves me a little befuddled b/c I think you missed the point and why would I need to attack them or anything?? Your other comment about a lie also is pointless b/c you don't know what knowledge that I have about the individuals involved, motives, the inner workings of the national beach scene etc and there's nothing untruthful about my comment, my statement is accurate.
I completely agree that the NVL has the right to do whatever they want, but since the juniors is really exploding at this time, we kind of owe it to the kids that we make sure beach tours and events don't come and go like they have in the adult game.