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Post by david on Feb 1, 2014 17:48:22 GMT -5
The NCAA should allow LOIs to be signed starting junior hear of high school. This would cut back on verbals (why verbal when you can have a written deal by Junior year) while allowing players to start making up their minds and positions to start getting filled in plenty of time for schools and players to react to other school and player moves.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Feb 1, 2014 18:55:54 GMT -5
Why settle for less than a written offer with a two-year guarantee, if that's what is called for? If it was possible to get this, this would also further restrict and control the athlete. I think the freedom to make changes as things come is a better choice. Sure a verbal can go out the door with a coaching change, but it also leaves the recruit an out if they don't want to be with the new coach. The proposal was to allow the recruit to opt out by a certain date, after which it would be binding on both parties. When that date should be is a matter of discussion - I suggested Sept. 1 of the recruit's junior season, but perhaps a later opt-out date would mitigate the issue you brought up. It should be earlier than the early signing date, it seems to me, to allow opt-outs time to re-open their recruitment. It would only apply to early offers/commits.
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Post by Wolfgang on Feb 1, 2014 19:22:40 GMT -5
You should always be on the lookout for the late bloomers. I believe Carrie hit puberty as a senior in high school.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Feb 2, 2014 13:57:33 GMT -5
You should always be on the lookout for the late bloomers. I believe Carrie hit puberty as a senior in high school. Which is why I think, if the race to the bottom for early offers can be halted, that most coaches would gladly re-focus on older age groups, since they are safer bets. As the article points out, the basic problem is that in women's sports, due to Title IX, the scholarship opportunities outnumber the available talent, which leaves the best recruits expecting early offers and recruiters playing musical chairs. I do think it is less of an issue with women's volleyball, where height is at a premium and talent is probably more in supply than demand. Women's soccer, lacrosse, and softball are equivalency sports, while women's volleyball is a headcount sport - the ability to offer partial scholarships is likely a factor in igniting bidding wars for younger and younger recruits.
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Post by notpriddy (COIF) on Feb 3, 2014 7:54:04 GMT -5
If a student athlete gets a scholarship offer to her dream school, let's celebrate it. Really? Where are the balloons and candles? Lets celebrate. BullSh*t. Have you ever been a parent of an 8th grader? Are you really going to allow her to make a decision like this? You have curfew for kids at that age for a reason. But you believe these kids are already able to commit to a play at a school. Unreal. Its the parents who's egos are being fed and their naivety is being taking advantage of. If your child is that good at 14yrs. old trust me there will be many offers later, even from the one she has already committed to. Also, parents need to remember, coaches are a dime a dozen and many leave before their daughter gets there. I did not read the NY Times article, but I don't see what the problem is from the athlete's/parent's point of view unless the coach/college reneges on their offer. The LOI is not signed until the athlete's senior year, right? So it would seem that even if an 8th grade athlete gives a verbal to a particular college or coach, the athlete can choose to go a different direction up until that time, right? Aren't the rules very specific that a verbal commitment is NOT BINDING for either athlete or coach. The real peril is for a coach that offers a scholarship to an 8th grader, and the athlete gives an early commitment to the coach/college thinking for years that she is secure in having an athletic scholarship (at least for a year at that college). A coach is playing with reputational fire if he/she gets labeled as a coach who reneges on his/her word. There have been many vb coaches who have made the mistake of offering a player early whose abilities did not pan out, but yet continued to keep that player on the team for the whole four years. Good, decent coaches may advise a particular player that the chance of her seeing any playing time on his/her team is not in the cards, basically encouraging her to transfer. However, if a coach wants to maintain integrity, he/she will not pull the scholarship from the player. Am I missing something?
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Post by redbeard2008 on Feb 3, 2014 13:17:49 GMT -5
If this keeps going, you're going to be seeing offers to 12-year olds and kids specializing by the fourth grade...
Don't think it can happen? Washington offered a 12-year old in football a couple years ago.
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Post by vbsport on Feb 5, 2014 10:39:39 GMT -5
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Post by volleyballer4life on Feb 5, 2014 11:06:14 GMT -5
I am a former collegiate coach / current college liaison for a club. Transferred twice as a student before finding the right school for me (played volleyball at my 3rd school). The tone of this thread is a perfect example of what's wrong with college sports now. I saw the title and was hoping to see a debate about "How do we alleviate a student-athlete's stress when deciding where to go to college" and instead the tone (of most the posts) is "Will the player's pan out to meet the expectations put on them at a young age?".
Forgive me if I seem to be on a soapbox here: I just am somewhat agitated by how most clubs run their businesses. The reality is, 2 percent of High School Seniors get Division I scholarships. Most "College Liaisons" aren't in place to help kids find the right fit - they're busy shopping their kids to any school that will take them, so they can post on their website about how many kids they send to college.
I've sat with dozens of athletes and their parents this year, and it always saddens me (and reminds me of my own process at their age) when they really have no clue what they want from their college experience - and more importantly have had no guidance on how to conduct their search. Obviously they want to play volleyball: What about their field of study (Which will be a little more important for paying bills when they enter the working world), Geographic location, school size? What do they want from their volleyball experience - how do they weigh individual accolades vs. team success? Do they know how to take their wants/needs and go online to research schools efficiently? It's amazing how a little information/making them think about things like that can make a difference.
I highly doubt they will put something in place to handcuff college coaches from the practices they use now. However, we can do a better job at the high school level at educating/guiding our student-athletes and focus on finding the right fit for them, instead of simply using the kids as selling points on why our clubs are superior to others.
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Post by vbgirls2 on Feb 5, 2014 11:53:34 GMT -5
volleyballer4life you are so right. Just so everyone read this correctly- "2% OF HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS GET DIV I SCHOLARSHIPS".
as per paragraph # 3 ....When you are being recruited in the 8th and 9th and 10th grades, you have no idea about "what field of study to major in", or even how big a school is (school size). It is possible you may not even know where some of these schools are located (geographic location). These are girls that don't know what to wear to school the next day, yet they are being asked to pick a college they will attend in 3-4 years down the road. I have had to help more than one parent/athlete in researching various schools for their child to look at. I also agree that most club teams are too busy/with too many kids to help you sort out this whole process and some are more interested in you committing to a big school so they can post it on their website in the attempt to draw more kids into their club.
I have found that the high school coaches are even less informed than the club coaches, so hoping they will help these kids find the right fit....I just don't see this happening. My real pet peeve is that you cannot take your 5 paid visits until you are a senior. Most VB girls verbal prior to their senior year, so any visits they take is on their dime. Most cannot visit all the schools that they may be interested in, or that are interested in you. I wish the NCAA would still keep the 5 visits, but say they can be done anytime.
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Post by volleyballer4life on Feb 5, 2014 12:06:24 GMT -5
volleyballer4life you are so right. Just so everyone read this correctly- "2% OF HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS GET DIV I SCHOLARSHIPS". as per paragraph # 3 ....When you are being recruited in the 8th and 9th and 10th grades, you have no idea about "what field of study to major in", or even how big a school is (school size). It is possible you may not even know where some of these schools are located (geographic location). These are girls that don't know what to wear to school the next day, yet they are being asked to pick a college they will attend in 3-4 years down the road. I have had to help more than one parent/athlete in researching various schools for their child to look at. I also agree that most club teams are too busy/with too many kids to help you sort out this whole process and some are more interested in you committing to a big school so they can post it on their website in the attempt to draw more kids into their club. I have found that the high school coaches are even less informed than the club coaches, so hoping they will help these kids find the right fit....I just don't see this happening. My real pet peeve is that you cannot take your 5 paid visits until you are a senior. Most VB girls verbal prior to their senior year, so any visits they take is on their dime. Most cannot visit all the schools that they may be interested in, or that are interested in you. I wish the NCAA would still keep the 5 visits, but say they can be done anytime. Great point about the paid visits as a senior. The thing that bothers me most on the club front is it's not that they're too busy, or there's too many kids: It's just not going to generate additional revenue. More importantly most of these people have no experience as college coaches. Talent aside, when I tell some of our more talented athletes about the typical week for a Division I athlete, they almost all flinch a bit: There's a difference between being talented at something and being passionate about something. I literally just got a text from a college coach contacting myself and a bunch of other club coaches/liaison's saying he's looking for a setter - within 10 minutes multiple people gave names/contact information for kids, instead of actually asking more about the program or even going back to those kids and inquiring with them first. Borderline negligent in my opinion..
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Post by lonewolf on Feb 5, 2014 15:12:03 GMT -5
volleyballer4life you are so right. Just so everyone read this correctly- "2% OF HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS GET DIV I SCHOLARSHIPS". That number is a little high. The 2% would be closer to the number that join a college team, the number that receive scholarships would be a little less
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Post by lonewolf on Feb 5, 2014 15:15:47 GMT -5
If this keeps going, you're going to be seeing offers to 12-year olds and kids specializing by the fourth grade... I disagree with this assumption a bit. Not saying that it doesn't happen (especially in other sports) but due to the nature of volleyball I don't feel it is as prevalent as a push for early specialization to get a college scholarship. Sure there are some out there that advocate it and push it (or use it as a selling technique for special camps) However, if you look at many of the stellar athletes that are among the early commits, many are multi-positional players. And I feel that more of the larger smarter clubs are going this way as they realize that it not only benefits them collegiality, it also benefits the club.
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Post by vbgirls2 on Feb 6, 2014 10:48:48 GMT -5
vollerballer4life, the life and schedule of a DI athlete is grueling, so they better like it and have passion or they will not last. Their life is not their own. Virtually every day (in-season) is scheduled to the max, with the one day off that the NCAA requires. Between weights 4 x a week, cross training, meetings, film, regular practice, 8 hours of required study hall, meetings with additional staff that could include; tutoring, sport psychologist, nutritionist, physical therapist, trainer, academic advising and that is addition to classes that you are taking.......you are busy, busy, busy. I don't think that many are told ahead of time what it will be like. So in the end you need to be both talented and passionate.
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Post by vbgirls2 on Feb 6, 2014 10:53:46 GMT -5
lonewolf, I just don't see the multi-positional players that you do. IF you are tall you are a middle, if you are shorter you are a back row player. If you are a lefty you are a setter or RS.I see kids get pegged in at a positon based on the need of a particular team (both in HS and club) and they hardly ever change. I would like to see everyone go through the drills for passing regardless of what position you play, everyone should know how to set, hitters should be able to hit across the front all postions and out of the back row as well. You see the court differently, angles.... when you move around and try out other positions. We should do more of this at the lower levels.
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Post by volleyballer4life on Feb 6, 2014 11:24:28 GMT -5
vollerballer4life, the life and schedule of a DI athlete is grueling, so they better like it and have passion or they will not last. Their life is not their own. Virtually every day (in-season) is scheduled to the max, with the one day off that the NCAA requires. Between weights 4 x a week, cross training, meetings, film, regular practice, 8 hours of required study hall, meetings with additional staff that could include; tutoring, sport psychologist, nutritionist, physical therapist, trainer, academic advising and that is addition to classes that you are taking.......you are busy, busy, busy. I don't think that many are told ahead of time what it will be like. So in the end you need to be both talented and passionate. I've coached Division I - well aware of this. Question is, how many clubs actually tell their players this? I can't tell you how many 5'7 outsides (without Morales's athleticism, to clarify) are expecting an athletic scholarship because they play club. How many athletes had NO idea about the typical week in the life of a Division I athlete and the demands it had. To your "so they better like it and have passion or they will not last" comment, I think part of avoiding this situation is to make sure we tell them as early as possible what the expectations are at that level, at which point they can make their decision on whether or not that sounds like something they'd be interested in doing. A couple of the local "elite" clubs showcase being among the top clubs in the country regarding placing kids in college, with their only statistics involving # of girls that have been sent to Division I/II. By my rough estimate, high balling numbers, at most they're sending 10% of their girls. What about the other 90 percent? I constantly hear disgruntled parents because of the illusion they had that the club would turn their children with 9' approach touches into Division I/II prospects. Yes, I feel that's somewhat of a naive perspective, but I also think it's not helped by clubs skewing their promotions to almost bolster those illusions. What saddens me the most is the families that think "Well, if we're not getting an athletic scholarship, what are we paying for club for?" - There are so many Division III schools that you can get plenty of additional merit aid if you're involved in extra-curricular activities. There are so many kids that could go to a Division III school, have a balance between academics/athletics, and make an impact for those programs. Obviously it's not across the board, but my Junior College/Division III athletes were always sad to see the season end, while my Division I kids seemed relieved that they could be college kids again (between weights/off-season conditioning, of course).
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