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Post by wilsu on Mar 25, 2014 6:54:17 GMT -5
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Post by crawdaddy on Mar 25, 2014 13:12:28 GMT -5
I'm curious how the off-season dominoes fell on both the men's and women's side. Obviously Avatar and Rogers split. Did Theo then split with Nick to play with Todd? And if so, that seems like a strange move given that Todd seems close to retirement and they don't have the points to get automatically into the main draw. Plus Nick and Theo seemed to have had success last year.
On the women's side, was the first domino Fopma bailing on Sweat to play with Whitney leading to Fendrick bailing on Hochevar to play with Sweat? Kind of have the same question about Fopma's move as I do about Brunner's.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Mar 25, 2014 13:15:06 GMT -5
Tomorrow's brackets: Men’s Bracket 10 a.m.: No. 1 Todd Rogers and Theo Brunner vs. No. 4 John Hyden and Tri Bourne 10 a.m.: No. 2 Will Montgomery and Stafford Slick vs. No. 3 John Mayer and Brad Keenan Noon: Men’s final
Women’s Bracket 11 a.m.: No. 1 Jennifer Fopma and Whitney Pavlik vs. No. 4 Sarah Day and Allison Daley 11 a.m.: No. 2 Brittany Hochevar and Lane Carico vs. No. 3 Heather Hughes and Christal Engle 1 p.m.: Women’s final
"Four U.S. women’s and four men’s beach volleyball teams will compete in winners-take-all tournaments to compete for slots (one men’s and one women’s) as the United States’ fourth team in the FIVB Shanghai Jinshan Grand Slam on April 29-May 4 in China."
Doesn't mention anything about Fuzhou the week before.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Mar 25, 2014 14:29:14 GMT -5
I'm curious how the off-season dominoes fell on both the men's and women's side. Obviously Avatar and Rogers split. Did Theo then split with Nick to play with Todd? And if so, that seems like a strange move given that Todd seems close to retirement and they don't have the points to get automatically into the main draw. Plus Nick and Theo seemed to have had success last year. On the women's side, was the first domino Fopma bailing on Sweat to play with Whitney leading to Fendrick bailing on Hochevar to play with Sweat? Kind of have the same question about Fopma's move as I do about Brunner's. Nick dumped Brunner in order to pick up Doherty and his FIVB points. On the women's side, I don't really know what the heck is going on with all the partner switches.
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Post by crawdaddy on Mar 25, 2014 14:37:31 GMT -5
I'm curious how the off-season dominoes fell on both the men's and women's side. Obviously Avatar and Rogers split. Did Theo then split with Nick to play with Todd? And if so, that seems like a strange move given that Todd seems close to retirement and they don't have the points to get automatically into the main draw. Plus Nick and Theo seemed to have had success last year. On the women's side, was the first domino Fopma bailing on Sweat to play with Whitney leading to Fendrick bailing on Hochevar to play with Sweat? Kind of have the same question about Fopma's move as I do about Brunner's. Nick dumped Brunner in order to pick up Doherty and his FIVB points. On the women's side, I don't really know what the heck is going on with all the partner switches. Ah, now the men makes a little more sense. Although it's a shame these decisions have to come down to who has points.
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Post by klazk on Mar 25, 2014 16:59:12 GMT -5
Doesn't mention anything about Fuzhou the week before. I've been meaning to send an email/tweet to USAV about the policy for Opens. It may be just a coincidence, but on both the men's and women's sides, the #2 and #3 teams are not going to Fuzhou, leaving the door open for #s 4, 5 and 6 to play. Is it possible the Opens are going to be used for development and the Slams for the top teams? Also, I don't know if I missed it yesterday or they tweaked the release after I read it initially (saw on Twitter last night), but just noticed the second to last paragraph adds that there will be no playoffs for any of the other Grand Slams because of "logistics" and the 4th US team in points will get the entry into the remaining slams (other than Long Beach, where we will also get a wildcard). Seems a little ridiculous to me to hold a playoff for one Grand Slam at the beginning of the year and then go back to the "old way" for all the rest.
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Post by camkerr on Mar 25, 2014 17:58:24 GMT -5
...Is it possible the Opens are going to be used for development and the Slams for the top teams?... Probably. I spoke with Chaim Schalk and he said that because of the way the points are structured, they are focusing on Grand Slams and not opens. They'd have to get silver or gold at an open for it to make it worth it. The money is better, the teams are better and the points are better. Limit the amount of travel and expenses and only play the best teams in the world? I think most of the top teams are considering this. Under that logic, Opens should definitely be used for development. Go get up and coming teams the world tour experience.
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Post by wang pu on Mar 26, 2014 0:15:26 GMT -5
So basically teams #5 and #6 need to do very well in the Opens to hopefully get into a Slam?
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Post by JB Southpaw on Mar 26, 2014 7:36:51 GMT -5
Doesn't mention anything about Fuzhou the week before. I've been meaning to send an email/tweet to USAV about the policy for Opens. It may be just a coincidence, but on both the men's and women's sides, the #2 and #3 teams are not going to Fuzhou, leaving the door open for #s 4, 5 and 6 to play. Is it possible the Opens are going to be used for development and the Slams for the top teams? Also, I don't know if I missed it yesterday or they tweaked the release after I read it initially (saw on Twitter last night), but just noticed the second to last paragraph adds that there will be no playoffs for any of the other Grand Slams because of "logistics" and the 4th US team in points will get the entry into the remaining slams (other than Long Beach, where we will also get a wildcard). Seems a little ridiculous to me to hold a playoff for one Grand Slam at the beginning of the year and then go back to the "old way" for all the rest. I saw that too, I took it as making the 4-6 teams value the NORCECA tournaments more. From the NORCECA event "The USA Volleyball beach teams of Lane Carico and Brittany Hochevar and also Tri Bourne and John Hyden won their respective NORCECA qualification tournaments on Thursday at the Annenberg Beach House in Santa Monica, Calif. The victories mean that these U.S. teams will have the first pick of competing in the NORECA Beach Circuit events in Cayman Islands, Guatemala City, Guatemala and Antigua, Guatemala.Bourne/Hyden Have 4 NORCECA's and 1 FIVB Open, guaranteed to them so far this year. IF they win the Q for the Grand Slam (and finish well in all), I wonder if they can pass Todd/Theo in points?
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Post by crawdaddy on Mar 26, 2014 9:11:18 GMT -5
I think you ask the important question JB, which is what it takes for a team to pass another team in points? If I remember the measly points handed out at NORCECAs, even if you win a bunch of those, it is very difficult to catch up with a team that is playing in GSs, particularly if that team is making the main draw.
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Post by klazk on Mar 26, 2014 11:25:57 GMT -5
25th at a Slam is 160 points for the team (80 each) 17th at an Open is 180 points for the team (90 each)
Assuming it hasn't changed from last year, first place at a NORCECA is 280 points for the team (140 each)
So if you are winning NORCECAs and the other team is losing in the qualifier or not getting out of pool, you could pass higher teams.
Rogers/Brunner 1,603 Montgomery/Slick 1,349 Keenan/Mayer 1,318 Hyden/Bourne 1,213
Points are based on best 6 of last 8 and the inclusion of each NORCECA only happens if it benefits your points (in determining how far back you go for the last 8).
Something else to note is that Bourne and Brunner both only have 5 events so far, so they will be adding their first finish in 2014 directly to total as opposed to having to replace a finish in their best 6.
Also keep in mind, unless it has changed (really wish they would publish 2014 handbook), entry points are determined 21 days before an event. So it takes a while for the points from a tournament to get factored in. Our course, with only one Grand Slam before June, I guess that is a big issue in the early part of the season.
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Post by crawdaddy on Mar 26, 2014 12:00:53 GMT -5
As always, thanks for the great info Klazk. I know you posted this before, but what are the points for the top five women's teams?
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Post by JB Southpaw on Mar 26, 2014 12:49:45 GMT -5
USA Volleyball usavolleyball 2m At the FIVB playoff, @johnhyden and @tribourne def @professortodd and Theo Brunner, 21-17, 21-17 #usavbeach USA Volleyball usavolleyball 1m At the FIVB playoff in Santa Monica, @montys_life and Stafford Slick def Brad Keenan and John Mayer, 23-21, 21-12 #usavbeach
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Post by JB Southpaw on Mar 26, 2014 12:54:06 GMT -5
Conflicting results, I tend to think USAV is correct.
AVP @avpbeach 1m First round update at the Beach Grand Slam Playoff: @montys_life and Stafford will meet Brunner and @professortodd in the finals. #FIVB2014
CORRECTION EDIT: AVP @avpbeach 1m Update from Beach Grand Slam Playoffs: @montys_life and Stafford will meet @tribourne and @johnhyden in the finals @fivbvolleyball #FIVB2014
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Post by JB Southpaw on Mar 26, 2014 13:39:22 GMT -5
USA Volleyball usavolleyball 41s At the FIVB Grand Slam playoff in Santa Monica, @britthochevar and @lcarico1 def Christa Engle and Heather Hughes, 21-16, 21-14 #usavbeach
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